Personal challenge to Kismet

[JohnnyReb]

Fair enough Kismet. I guess I,too, am the type of fella if I feel pushed then I tend to push back. Probably some of the prosecutor coming out in ya:D.

I look forward to future debates.

Regards
JR
P.S. (Churchill will get 'em everytime )

[AmBraCol]

Wow, I get called out and there are two pages of comments before I can even get to responding. First, regarding the specific question of my presence here - I am a little disappointed that you, Paul, in particular called me out because in the Spitzer thread you actually quoted my post in which I answered your question. (Of course, I have since learned that people don't even seem to read my posts, so I guess that shouldn't be a surprise! ) Here it is again with a little more detail about me...

I read the original post about the BLR - but I've not seen anything else about leverguns since then. Of course, I do not have the time to read every post on the site and apparently overlooked the note you originated. So far all I've seen from you are posts on controversial subjects, and that's why I was asking if there was another side to you. Not that I've any problem with folks voicing opinions on controversial subjects, as long as they do so politely (which, unfortunately, too many do NOT do - on both sides of the issues) and as long as that's not their purpose for being here. So that's why I asked, as politely as I know how, if you've any REAL interest in leverguns and firearms in general. There's plenty of folks who claim to be interested in guns - and then stab gunowners in the back. Look at Clinton's and Kerry's attempts to pander to the hunting public for an example. Anyway, this forum is like a crowded campfire, and folks show up and visit a while throughout the day. I, too, was amazed at how quickly a personal note was responded to by a wide variety of folks. It shows how much of a stir you've created I guess.

Anyway, I'll try and stay tuned for your next post on gun related topics. As others have said, "Welcome to the fire", just don't expect most folks here to share all your ideas. Oh. I guess that goes for all of us! There's a wide variety of opinions on a wide variety of subjects represented here, and plenty of divergence as well. Over all, it's a community forum - and this community tends to lean to the right side of the political spectrum.

[sore shoulder]

Mr Kismet, unfortunately your joining at a historical point in this country, with our future hanging in the balance. Your positon as a liberal aligns you with those who threaten an inalienable right we here take very seriously. In additon your allegedy innocent choice of user name aligns you with the Muslim faith, the faith of our current enemy. I will spare you the rhetoric and semantics and get to my real question.
I see you have recently "rediscovered" a love for hunting and guns, so I have to wonder, in the light of your status as a prosecutor, and self proclaimed liberal affiliation, what is your stance on guns? To whit, do you believe in the 2nd Amendment as refering to all guns, or just "some guns". In other words, do you believe military type weapons do not belong in the hands of civilians and do you believe in any form of "gun control"?
I'm sure your capable of postulating a meandering and eloquent reply, which will be indicative in and of itself, but really these questions only require a simple, straightforward reply if in fact you support our inalienable personal right, designated in The Constituion as the Second Amendment", as written and intended by our FF, which is "shall not be infringed".

[mescalero1]

You got me there!

[Charles]

Kismet... Welcome to the board. I have read your posts and have agreed on some points and disagreed on others. I have noticed a "lawyer's backbone" and agressiveness, because I have been down that same road. I have never considered it to belittle anyone or stir the pot. I just saw a forceful and well reasoned argument that runs contrary to the general thinking of this board.

There are some first class people on this board and there are some certified jerks and haters. You will find the jerks will attack often and have no tolerance for thinking not consistant with theirs.

They drove off the much talked about Junior. He just got tired of the drumbeat of abuse. Some would allude to him in a dirisive manner in threads in which he did not participate.

Behind Jrs. "country boy" persona was a well educated and insightful mind. He also had a heart that cared from people that were not cut from his bolt of cloth.

I have taken a fair share of abuse and been called many of the same names as you. However, I have been here from day 1 and my "gun nut" credentials are beyond question.

So stick around.. I will take you on from time to time, and will make common cause with you from time to time also. But, it will always be on the issue and not on the person.

Good shooting and keep em in the X-ring. Charles in Deep South Texas

[FWiedner]

Sometimes this place make a fellow alternately pull his hair, roll his eyes and sigh, or just bust out with a big belly laugh.

This thread put a picture in my mind of a fat kid chewing bubble gum and poking a dead cat with a stick while his skinny friends gather 'round and dare each other to kick it.

As I have said many times before...

Good grief.

[Jarhead]

Sometimes this place make a fellow alternately pull his hair, roll his eyes and sigh, or just bust out with a big belly laugh.

This thread put a picture in my mind of a fat kid chewing bubble gum and poking a dead cat with a stick while his skinny friends gather 'round and dare each other to kick it.

As I have said many times before...

Good grief.

"Celebrate Diversity and look for the best in others!" And don't forget to bring your Hanky

Does that sound like a liberal?? Oh' pelosi...better go get my helmet and flack jacket on! INCOMMING!!

Some interesting reading so far...the fella's welcome at my campfire as long as he don't drink all the beer...and doesn't aim his rifle at me...

[Jeeps]

There are some first class people on this board and there are some certified jerks and haters. You will find the jerks will attack often and have no tolerance for thinking not consistant with theirs.

I have taken a fair share of abuse and been called many of the same names as you. However, I have been here from day 1 and my "gun nut" credentials are beyond question.

I was just wondering Charles if you could let me know if I fit in the group of
"jerks and haters" you are referring to?

I'm not looking to butt heads, just wondering as to how my intents are taken.

After the give and take on this particular thread I begin to question how I am
viewed on this forum.

I don't like to see people be picked on, it's a weakness I have.

I do recall being labeled as someones attack dog, but I don't recall giving out any names to others myself.
That was water under the bridge and was forgotten soon after but this has
reminded me of it, not in a harsh way, but a questioning one.

Who here gets to label others without question?

"Lawyers backbone" and "aggressiveness" or whatever some may call it can
also be read as offensive.

To be honest, if I HONESTLY AND REALLY need to tone it down I can and will.
One PM from a moderator and I will respect their wishes.
I am not here to hurt peoples feelings, but will if I feel they are hurting others
feelings. Especially for sport, which I must be in the minority of sensing in
Kismet.

I grew up a gullible farm boy who was made sport of quite a bit, and I can
tell when people are having sport with others. I don't like it one bit.

[Jarhead]

There are some first class people on this board and there are some certified jerks and haters. You will find the jerks will attack often and have no tolerance for thinking not consistant with theirs.

I have taken a fair share of abuse and been called many of the same names as you. However, I have been here from day 1 and my "gun nut" credentials are beyond question.

I was just wondering Charles if you could let me know if I fit in the group of
"jerks and haters" you are referring to?

I'm not looking to butt heads, just wondering as to how my intents are taken.

After the give and take on this particular thread I begin to question how I am
viewed on this forum.

I don't like to see people be picked on, it's a weakness I have.

I do recall being labeled as someones attack dog, but I don't recall giving out any names to others myself.
That was water under the bridge and was forgotten soon after but this has
reminded me of it, not in a harsh way, but a questioning one.

Who here gets to label others without question?

"Lawyers backbone" and "aggressiveness" or whatever some may call it can
also be read as offensive.

To be honest, if I HONESTLY AND REALLY need to tone it down I can and will.
One PM from a moderator and I will respect their wishes.
I am not here to hurt peoples feelings, but will if I feel they are hurting others
feelings. Especially for sport, which I must be in the minority of sensing in
Kismet.

I grew up a gullible farm boy who was made sport of quite a bit, and I can
tell when people are having sport with others. I don't like it one bit.

Me too Brother...I am a country boy too... That Grew up Fast! USMC-Uncle Sams Misguided Children...I understand where you are coming from , but maybe we should give the fella a can of "slack." Try not to let this fella get under you skin...ain't worth it Bro..

As we use to say in the Corps, "don't get upset re-enlist." I don't agree with this Kismet fella, so just don't play into his hand...that's what he wants...He can think whatever he likes, and I really don't give a pelosi...

[tman]

hope you hang inhere kismet. i tend to go against the grain here, politically, but i think it adds to overall. where and how you are raised , and life experiences tend to shape ones political beliefs. a farmer in iowa, a steelworker in pittsburgh, an heir to a family fourtune in nyc. , a soldier in iraq, and a migrantant worker in calif. , will tend to see things differently. i glad i have the oppottunity to learn from a vast range of ideas. after all isnt this what america's about. i think everbody here loves our country andwants the best for her. we just disagree on how to get there.

[FWiedner]

Naw, America is about makin' everyody else think like you do and then kickin' their butt if they don't like it.

Pre-emptively.

[Jarhead]

Yea, God Bless the Marine Corps! Marines can take it and man do they know how to shoot back and hold thier ground. Been there...done that! The enemy either dies or hides in some hole to get away.....shoot, and then run and hide...

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they have made a difference, Marines don't have that problem" Ronald Reagan

[Jeeps]

There are some first class people on this board and there are some certified jerks and haters. You will find the jerks will attack often and have no tolerance for thinking not consistant with theirs.

I have taken a fair share of abuse and been called many of the same names as you. However, I have been here from day 1 and my "gun nut" credentials are beyond question.

I was just wondering Charles if you could let me know if I fit in the group of
"jerks and haters" you are referring to?

I'm not looking to butt heads, just wondering as to how my intents are taken.

After the give and take on this particular thread I begin to question how I am
viewed on this forum.

I don't like to see people be picked on, it's a weakness I have.

I do recall being labeled as someones attack dog, but I don't recall giving out any names to others myself.
That was water under the bridge and was forgotten soon after but this has
reminded me of it, not in a harsh way, but a questioning one.

Who here gets to label others without question?

"Lawyers backbone" and "aggressiveness" or whatever some may call it can
also be read as offensive.

To be honest, if I HONESTLY AND REALLY need to tone it down I can and will.
One PM from a moderator and I will respect their wishes.
I am not here to hurt peoples feelings, but will if I feel they are hurting others
feelings. Especially for sport, which I must be in the minority of sensing in
Kismet.

I grew up a gullible farm boy who was made sport of quite a bit, and I can
tell when people are having sport with others. I don't like it one bit.

Me too Brother...I am a country boy too... That Grew up Fast! USMC-Uncle Sams Misguided Children...I understand where you are coming from , but maybe we should give the fella a can of "slack." Try not to let this fella get under you skin...ain't worth it Bro..

As we use to say in the Corps, "don't get upset re-enlist." I don't agree with this Kismet fella, so just don't play into his hand...that's what he wants...He can think whatever he likes, and I really don't give a ****...

This post wasn't about the "K" man bro. I was just curios and a little paranoid
to know if I was on Charles' list or for that matter if I was negatively viewed
as of late.

I hope I got it across that I wish no hard feelings just need to know for my
own personal point of reference. Strong words were slung and I'd like to
know the target.

[Jarhead]

There are some first class people on this board and there are some certified jerks and haters. You will find the jerks will attack often and have no tolerance for thinking not consistant with theirs.

I have taken a fair share of abuse and been called many of the same names as you. However, I have been here from day 1 and my "gun nut" credentials are beyond question.

I was just wondering Charles if you could let me know if I fit in the group of
"jerks and haters" you are referring to?

I'm not looking to butt heads, just wondering as to how my intents are taken.

After the give and take on this particular thread I begin to question how I am
viewed on this forum.

I don't like to see people be picked on, it's a weakness I have.

I do recall being labeled as someones attack dog, but I don't recall giving out any names to others myself.
That was water under the bridge and was forgotten soon after but this has
reminded me of it, not in a harsh way, but a questioning one.

Who here gets to label others without question?

"Lawyers backbone" and "aggressiveness" or whatever some may call it can
also be read as offensive.

To be honest, if I HONESTLY AND REALLY need to tone it down I can and will.
One PM from a moderator and I will respect their wishes.
I am not here to hurt peoples feelings, but will if I feel they are hurting others
feelings. Especially for sport, which I must be in the minority of sensing in
Kismet.

I grew up a gullible farm boy who was made sport of quite a bit, and I can
tell when people are having sport with others. I don't like it one bit.

Me too Brother...I am a country boy too... That Grew up Fast! USMC-Uncle Sams Misguided Children...I understand where you are coming from , but maybe we should give the fella a can of "slack." Try not to let this fella get under you skin...ain't worth it Bro..

As we use to say in the Corps, "don't get upset re-enlist." I don't agree with this Kismet fella, so just don't play into his hand...that's what he wants...He can think whatever he likes, and I really don't give a ****...

This post wasn't about the "K" man bro. I was just curios and a little paranoid
to know if I was on Charles' list or for that matter if I was negatively viewed
as of late.

I hope I got it across that I wish no hard feelings just need to know for my
own personal point of reference. Strong words were slung and I'd like to
know the target.

You're not the Target Bro...you're a good man (Marine) who is passionate about his feelings on the subject matter....and if you were the target...Marines know how to shoot back...and hold on...
Of course, it takes a Marine to know a Marine...if you catch my drift? And I know you do Brother...

[Charles]

Jeeps... Sorry but you didn't make my list of jerks and hater's The list if actualy very small with about six names on it. Most have not posted in some months. They seem to show up, spew their venom and go back in their holes. We do have a couple of active jerks. I just ignore them.

Jarhead didn't make it either. I like Marines

[Jarhead]

Jeeps... Sorry but you didn't make my list of jerks and hater's The list if actualy very small with about six names on it. Most have not posted in some months. They seem to show up, spew their venom and go back in their holes. We do have a couple of active jerks. I just ignore them.

Jarhead didn't make it either. I like Marines

Charles,

I met a coward the other day on this forum...likes to show up...spew venom, and then runs for his hole...I like Marines too I wonder why?

[Charles]

Jarhead... Up until I was 16 years old, all I wanted to do was have a career in the military. I did a major blow out on my knee in 1958 and have not been able to run a step since. There went my career in the military. I think it was the biggest disappointment in my life.

I still have great respect and affinity for military people. Over the years I have known many folks who have served in the Corp and IMHO, they are the best of the best. Marine Corp training does something to a man, that follows him all of his life and makes him a better man on the whole.

I made a good life for myself...but that old desire is still there..it has never gone away. But...I muddle along. Take care!

[Jarhead]

Jarhead... Up until I was 16 years old, all I wanted to do was have a career in the military. I did a major blow out on my knee in 1958 and have not been able to run a step since. There went my career in the military. I think it was the biggest disappointment in my life.

I still have great respect and affinity for military people. Over the years I have known many folks who have served in the Corp and IMHO, they are the best of the best. Marine Corp training does something to a man, that follows him all of his life and makes him a better man on the whole.

I made a good life for myself...but that old desire is still there..it has never gone away. But...I muddle along. Take care!

Thank you Sir,

God had other plans for you...we all have our dissapointments...I have made my fair share of blunders in my life and did not accept Jesus until 1998...sort of late in life, but not too late I reckon... You're serving a different purpose and it's more important...whats more important than showing others the way of Jesus? I struggle....

You take care as well

[Swampman]

Kismet hasn't msde a single firearms related post. That does seem a little strange.

[Kismet]

Thank you to those who have welcomed me. I am not here just to pee people off. I had tried to make that clear in my earlier posts on this thread.

I did grow up in a house where lively debate was encouraged, so I apologize if my arguments have seemed abrasive. I only had one brother - we didn't have to fight for food but we did have to fight to support our ideas. In my arguments I have not been intending to belittle others. In fact, I have genuinely appreciated many of the responses and have thought a lot about them. While I have been expecting others to consider and think about the things I post, I have been doing the same. One of the things I appreciate about the discussion here (when we all play nice) is that it is not just the same old people I usually talk with. It certainly makes it more interesting for me.

As to people who are religious, I have no personal disrespect for your beliefs. I do strongly disagree with religion mixing in a) politics and b) science! Now, I realize there are arguments on both sides, many of which have been presented eloquently here, but I will still argue that the three are best separately.

Michael in NH

p.s. Jarhead, don't worry about the beer at your campfire, I've never managed to acquire a taste despite my best collegiate efforts. Keep me out of your liquor cabinet, though!

[Kismet]

Your positon as a liberal aligns you with those who threaten an inalienable right we here take very seriously.

Personally, I think OI said it best in another post. Your inalienable right is solely defined by your willingness to kill those who come to take your guns.

In additon your allegedy innocent choice of user name aligns you with the Muslim faith, the faith of our current enemy.

It does no such thing. If I asked for coffee would you say I'm aligned with Muslims? Moreover, your suggestion that "Muslims" in general are our enemy is a gross oversimplification.

Really these questions only require a simple, straightforward reply.

To whit, do you believe in the 2nd Amendment as refering to all guns, or just "some guns".

Some guns.

In other words, do you believe military type weapons do not belong in the hands of civilians?

Some do not.

Do you believe in any form of "gun control"?

Yes.

[sore shoulder]

To whit, do you believe in the 2nd Amendment as refering to all guns, or just "some guns".

Some guns.

In other words, do you believe military type weapons do not belong in the hands of civilians?

Some do not.

Do you believe in any form of "gun control"?

Yes.

What I figured.

[Jeeps]

Jeeps... Sorry but you didn't make my list of jerks and hater's The list if actualy very small with about six names on it. Most have not posted in some months. They seem to show up, spew their venom and go back in their holes. We do have a couple of active jerks. I just ignore them.

Jarhead didn't make it either. I like Marines

Thank you, I was honestly worried, one of the problems I find about being
"online" is you never honestly know how you are taken. I'm a "face reader".

Some reason I had a "cornered feeling", don't know why but it was there.
Most likely self imposed.

I would enjoy a clean slate and would even apologize to Kismet.

[Charles]

Kismet... Let's talk about religion and politics. Do you mean religion should stay out of social issues or partisan politics? If religion has a social adgenda (which it does) then where does the line cross into politics?

[Jeeps]

Kismet... Let's talk about religion and politics. Do you mean religion should stay out of social issues or partisan politics? If religion has a social adgenda (which it does) then where does the line cross into politics?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

No one has the right to keep it out of politics, people have right to talk about
whatever they choose, right?

But if it means what is says, why is killing someone against the law?

[Old Savage]

Politics controls questions which have strong religious involvement so religion is never going to stay out of politics nor should it.

[Charles]

Guys... Let's remember that freedom of religion means freedom to believe anything you want and not freedom to do anything you want in the name of religion.

Just ask the Mormons about plural marriages. They can believe in it, but they can't do it. Folks are free to believe in human sacrifice, but not free to do it. and so on and so on and so on.

When it comes to politics, churches are free to get as deep into it as they want... BUT.. if they have a Federal Charitiable Tax Exempt status, they will lose it.

My question to Kismet was why he felt politics and religion should be kept seperate. I have my views on that and was interested in hearing his.

I hold the personal belief that the church should and ought to get involved in social and justice issues. I believe the Bible commands us to work for a just and loving society. However, I don't believe the church should get involved in partisan politics. However at times there is a big overlap and it is not always easy to see the line. I think the Lord would throw up over American partisan politics.

[claybob86]

To whit, do you believe in the 2nd Amendment as refering to all guns, or just "some guns".

Some guns.

In other words, do you believe military type weapons do not belong in the hands of civilians?

Some do not.

Do you believe in any form of "gun control"?

Yes.

Kismet:

Sounds like you fall into the "common sense gun laws" camp. Reasonable compromise and all that. Now, where does the chain stop? All we see is one compromise after another which WILL lead to absolute disarmament of the citizens. It never stops. Do YOU believe the gun control advocates will finally reach a point where they say, "OK, thats enough." I don't. They won't rest until ALL firearms are banned. If some sort of reasonable compromise actually meant that the issue was resolved and put to bed for good... Nah, that ain't gonna happen!

Your comments please, sir.

[Jeeps]

Guys... Let's remember that freedom of religion means freedom to believe anything you want and not freedom to do anything you want in the name of religion.

It's not "do" but "say", which is protected under the same amendment.

The mormons cannot marry more than one woman but they can speak of
their beliefs of multiple marriages without being stifled.

When it comes to politics, churches are free to get as deep into it as they want... BUT.. if they have a Federal Charitiable Tax Exempt status, they will lose it.

This is unconstitutional as well, since when should someone have to pay to
have their voice heard?

You know, that amendment is a one way street that the govt. keeps driving
up the wrong way.

The Bill of Rights tells the govt what to do. They have no say in the matter.

My question to Kismet was why he felt politics and religion should be kept seperate. I have my views on that and was interested in hearing his.

Because some people are scared of religion. Some are also scared of guns.

I watch people debate the Bill of Rights. It isn't the movie "National Treasure"
There are no hidden secrets. It says what it says. This is how Americans are
supposed to live, and it tells the govt. sternly what it should stay out of.
Not a puzzle to be figured out. It's a blueprint for freedom, bottom line.

[sore shoulder]

Your positon as a liberal aligns you with those who threaten an inalienable right we here take very seriously.

Personally, I think OI said it best in another post. Your inalienable right is solely defined by your willingness to kill those who come to take your guns.

Funny, I thought that was exactly why the FF expounded on the Constitution by enumerating certain inalienable rights so as to prevent exactly what is happening now.

In additon your allegedy innocent choice of user name aligns you with the Muslim faith, the faith of our current enemy.

It does no such thing. If I asked for coffee would you say I'm aligned with Muslims? Moreover, your suggestion that "Muslims" in general are our enemy is a gross oversimplification.

To the contrary sir, your analogy is grossly misapplied. First Muslim implies a particular existing culture, and although the Moslem empire may have introduced coffee to Europe hundreds of years ago, I doubt anyone but a learned history scholar would equate the two. Second, it is in fact the religion of our enemies, who fanatically espouse anti-semitism and death to the infidel. It is not a religion of peace, it is a religion of oppression and sanctioned violence toward women, hatred and racism.

To whit, do you believe in the 2nd Amendment as refering to all guns, or just "some guns".

Some guns.

In totall disagreement with the FF's.

In other words, do you believe military type weapons do not belong in the hands of civilians?

Some do not.

Again in totall disagreement with the FF's.

Do you believe in any form of "gun control"?

Yes.

A bunch of farmers fought the British Empire to a standstill over that idea, specifically that we should not have cannons, and it is no coincidence it was the second enumerated right. And in fact they intended citizens have access to "every terrible weapon of war".

"Shall not be infringed".

A short primer. The first 10 Amendments do not grant anything to the states or governments, it gaurantees rights to citizens. Included among those is the right of citizens to form a militia in order to defend those rights. This would include the use of any and all military weapons. Privately owned weapons.

[Jeeps]

I hold the personal belief that the church should and ought to get involved in social and justice issues. I believe the Bible commands us to work for a just and loving society. However, I don't believe the church should get involved in partisan politics. However at times there is a big overlap and it is not always easy to see the line. I think the Lord would throw up over American partisan politics.

Sorry, forgot the last part.

I think if the Lord was to take a hand in things (I like to believe he lets us
fight it out for ourselves and keeps score) and look at American politics he would go "old testament"
and there would be a bit of smighting going around for everyone