What is the 40-70 wcf, and more importantly, WHY?

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:26 pm

I have a Winchester 1886 that originally lettered as a 40-70 but was rebarreled to 33 wcf. I can't find any info on the 40-70 wcf cartridge.

Does anyone know the dimensions and original loading of this cartridge.

Does anyone know why it came about when the 40-65 and 40-82 were already around?

TIA

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:43 pm

Winchester Model 1886

First cartridges included the .45-70, .45-90 WCF and .40-82 WCF. The .40-65 WCF, .38-56 WCF and .50-110 WCF were added in 1887, followed by the .40-70 and .38-70 in 1894, the .50-100-450 in 1895 and the .33 WCF in 1903.

Bottlenecked case similar to the 38-70.

330 gr. bullet @ 1300+ fps.

Leverluver · Post by **Leverluver** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:01 pm

Essentially a 40-82 for folks that wanted to use a heavier bullet.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:50 pm

The 40-82 and the 40-70 are virtually identical in case dimensions. The fundamental difference was the bullet weight. The 40-70 fired a 330 grain bullet and had a 1:20 rate of twist. The 40-82 was more of an express cartridges, firing a lighter 262 grain bullet and had a slower twist. Why Winchester didn't just make their 40-82's with a 40-70 rate of twist and just offer the same cartridge in two different bullet rates, I do not know. Maybe it was to avoid confusion.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:17 pm

The above boys have it right but I would like to add that if your 86 still was the way it was, you could buy about 4 or 5 .33 Winchesters with it. Rare bird, as less than a thou were made.-----------Sixgun

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:56 pm

Thanks everyone for the info. That's what I needed.

So can 40-82 ammo / brass be used in a 40-70 rifle?

A friend and I are contemplating doing a three barrel set with the rifle in each of the original chamberings mentioned in the letter. It is one I posted about recently that had been a 40-70, and 50 Ex, and a 33 wcf.

The prospect of doing a three barrel set is very enticing, although very expensive.

Here it is again:

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:07 pm

71 Fan,
Nice rifle!

I am not 100% on this as I am going out of my head but the 40-70 is a 2.4 case so thats all you would have to do is run a 40-82 or a 45-90 case in a 40-70 sizing die.
Expensive for the three barrel set? You bet as that 40-70 barrel is going to have to be made from scratch or possibly by having a '86 barrel relined and then restamped. Who would have a 40-70 reamer, well, only the Good Lord knows

But in the scheme of things, if thats what you want, go for it. Doug Turnbull should be able to do it for you. Life is short buddy---you gotta play hard. Would be interesting and drop me a pm if you need any contacts or help--------------Sixgun

cowboykell · Post by **cowboykell** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:21 pm

You don't need a 40-70 die. I reload and shoot regular 40-82 in my 40-70 Marlin 1895.

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:28 pm

cowboykell wrote:You don't need a 40-70 die. I reload and shoot regular 40-82 in my 40-70 Marlin 1895.

That is great news!

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:31 pm

Sixgun wrote:71 Fan,
Nice rifle! I am not 100% on this as I am going out of my head but the 40-70 is a 2.4 case so thats all you would have to do is run a 40-82 or a 45-90 case in a 40-70 sizing die.
Expensive for the three barrel set? You bet as that 40-70 barrel is going to have to be made from scratch or possibly by having a '86 barrel relined and then restamped. Who would have a 40-70 reamer, well, only the Good Lord knows
But in the scheme of things, if thats what you want, go for it. Doug Turnbull should be able to do it for you. Life is short buddy---you gotta play hard. Would be interesting and drop me a pm if you need any contacts or help--------------Sixgun

We've talked to Hunter and Turnbull about the project. Both can do it with new, remarked barrels. But $$$$$$$ cha-ching.