45 long colt loads for lever action

[bulletbob]

Have used my winchester 45 lever for cowboy three gun for a couple of years, and just started long range (100 meters)targets.am using 7 grains Unique, 230 lrfn, wlp primer. Any advice for smaller groups (5.5 inches)?

[Hobie]

Never got groups that big with my gun. HOWEVER, I load it a bit heavier. http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/s ... RossiLever

[Don McDowell]

Might want to try either a bit more powder, to get the velocity up a tad. Or a different bullet.
A better sight than the standard issue Winchester will help some. Might give some thought to one of the Williams or Lyman receiver sights.

[Griff]

Read: Accurizing the Lever Action Rifle by Paco Kelly. Then if you still have a problem, come back with some specific questions. And some details; like what kind of rifle, what bullets, size (diam.), case trim length, crimp style and whether light, med or hvy... All of which can be factors that affect accuracy.

Receiver sights are illegal for SASS or NCOWS, not sure about Wetern 3-Gun.

Oh yeah, where're my manners? and Welcome to THE Forum.

[Don McDowell]

Mount a vernier tang sight on it, if playing the dress up games... Will give a bit better accuracy and easier to adjust. Cost qood bit more.

[J Miller]

Try a bullet sized .454". I've got two lever guns chambered for the .45 Colt and both prefer the larger bullets. The Rossi I used to have did too.

If your shooting a hard cast bullet, you might also try a softer bullet. The .45 Colt does not need a hard cast bullet, it doesn't produce near enough pressure.

Joe

[Old Savage]

My Rossi will shoot groups a lot larger than that with .451-.452 bullets but comes down with larger diameter bullets.

[new pig hunter]

Since I don't reload, I'll put in a shameless plug for the commercially-available ammo my Winchester Trapper loves like no other:
http://www.underwoodammo.com/45coltlong ... xof50.aspx

At 100 yards I typically get groups no larger than 2-1/2".
When I place a bowling pin at 100 yards, I don't miss.
(I'm a bench rest shooter, and I use a scope).

Underwood told me he uses the Hornady 250-gr HP/XTP bullet:
http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.452-250-gr-HP-XTP/

So this would seem to be consistent with other advice above about a bigger bullet and more powder.

Cheers,

Carl

[JohndeFresno]

...I load it a bit heavier...

I'll say!

http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/s ... RossiLever

That was a great blog, Hobie. Well written - great photos!

[JohndeFresno]

Guns Magazine's August 2013 Summer-Fall Special edition has a good article that demystifies some of the more complicated sounding concepts of bullet hardness and pressure and/or velocity and barrel fit.

Using the standard advice of bumping up your cast bullet one thousandth or so above the barrel diameter, Mike Venturino, in "Confessions of a Cast Bullet Nerd" (pp. 82-87) breaks it down this way, generally:

BHN 22 - Linotype is a common source of this alloy
Suggested for all autoloading handguns (because of the way the bullets slam into the chamber and so on), rifle loads in excess of 1,500 fps. For comparative reference, he says that Oregon Trail alloy is 24 BHN.

BHN 15 - Lyman's old No. 2 alloy formula
His choice is 9 lbs. wheelweights, 1 lb. of 50/50 solder for magnum-type revolver loads, high-speed revolver bullets, 1,100-1,400 fps range. A gas check makes it even better, per his article.

BHN 10 - 1:20
Low-speed revolver bullets, 700-1,000fps. Venturino uses 1-20 tin to lead alloy, and keeps a large quantity on hand for BPCR matches. He states that the vast number of BPCR competitors use alloys ranging from 1-20 (BHN 10) to 1-30 (BHN 9).

There are exceptions to the above, as outlined in the article.

He references Lyman 48th Ed. Reloader’s Handbook, pg. 81, as a good source for basic BHN (bullet hardness; Brinnell Hardness Number) info.

I believe that the above pretty much falls into the suggestions given frequently by the gentlemen who post on this site.

[bulletbob]

Thanks for all the suggestion. My rifle is a Win 92 trapper (modern Japan). The bullet is 452 LRFN at 215 wt. Rolled crimp (mid to heavy) I have a William's sight (peep).
Our three gun is a homemade shoot, no fancy names, no fancy apparial, rule number 1, no rules, rule number 2, see rule number 1, just have fun.

[Model 52B]

I'm using 9.6 grains of Unique under a 250 gr RNFP cast bullet for a casual plinking load in my Model 92. There is adequate pressure to quickly seal the case and properly obturate the bullet. I've found that my Model 94 and both my Model 92s all prefer a .454 diameter bullet, and you'll find that proper bullet diameter is what's needed to prevent leading - not harder alloy.

For .45 Colt (and for my .45-70 Sharps) I've used Lyman No 2 alloy developed exactly as described above - 9 pounds of wheel weights and 1 pound of 50/50 bar solder. You end up with just enough tin for get good fill in the mold and it's hard enough for the pressures involved, without being brittle.

In some cases, people go too hard with the alloy to prevent leading at higher velocities, but it's rapid and complete obturation that matters, so starting with proper bullet diameter and then using an alloy soft enough to obturate at the pressures in use will keep the bore happy and improve accuracy.

For heavier hunting loads in a carbine or rifle, look at H110, 296, 2400 and IMR-4227, and light or heavy load, I'd stay with a .454 250-255 grain bullet rather than using a .45 ACP bullet like the .452 230 gr RN, 200 gr SWC, etc. Velocities around 1400 fps are common in a Model 92 and there are some published loads in the 1700 fps range with a 250 gr bullet. Pressures with those loads are in the 32,000 psi range so they are definitely "ruger only" type loads that require a strong action, like the Model 92 and Model 94 winchesters, or the 1984 Marlin. They are not fodder for an 1873.

For hunting purposes in my Model 92 carbine and rifle I prefer a Hornady 250 gr XTP at around 1700 fps:

250 Hornady XTP Hodgdon H-110 25.0 gr 1,570 fps
250 Hornady XTP Hodgdon H-110 28.0 gr 1,758 fps

or a Hornady 300 gr XTP at about 1,500 fps:

300 Hornady XTP Hodgdon H-110 24.0 gr 1,532 fps

With lead bullets and Unique, I go easy on the crimp - just enough to lightly form it into the crimping groove, and I prefer not to size the bullet down in the crimping process by using something like a factory crimp die. With heavier loads, I'll use a heavier crimp to aid ignition a bit and build up more pressure in the case before the bullet exits.

[Griff]

I'll assume you're shootin' at steel so jacketed suggestions are out, and if you're using a timer, heavier loads can be counter-productive if the speed factors in. So........ I'd suggest a softer bullet. You ain't loading for a flat trajectory, you're just wantin' more accuracy, right?

I'd check to see what rifling twist your barrel has. If it's 1:16, those 215gr pills should be stabilizing fine. You're not seeing any keyholes on paper, right?

My 1st step, if I were in your shoes, would be to find a box of factory 45Colt lead ammo. Shoot that in your rifle and see what accuracy you get. If that's acceptable, find a bullet supplier that can get you a softer bullet, in the 11-15Bhn range. I cast & size a wide variety of .452 bullets for 4 different .45Colt rifles (Uberti, Rossi & Miroku), 4 SAAs (Colt, Uberti & ASM), and 6 different 1911s; and get good accuracy out of the all, with one exception... a WFN 185gr from a LBT mold that has a VERY small, shallow lube groove. It tumbles due to lack of lube -outta the 24-¼" 1873. It's fabulous outta any of the handguns!

PM me with a snail mail address and I'll drop some 200gr RFN bullets in the mail wjen I get home next weekend. I shoot these outta my rifles, usually loaded with 6-½ grains of RedDot for ~850fps. It's been ages since I shot any of these for groups on paper, so... sadly I won't guarantee that they're more or less accurate than yours. But... @ 50 yards they all went on top of each on an 8" steel target, using BP (Goex) as the propellant.

[harry]

Then again maybe you just need to shoot the right ammo in it, have you tried the standard length 45 colt?

[Don McDowell]

With that light of a bullet you're going to need to step up the velocity a bit to get the thing to stay stable at that distance. Dig into your reloading data and work up to the maximum charge of unique.
You may need to go to a different powder such as bludot or 2400 to get that bullet to the speed it needs to shoot a decent group at that distance.

[Ysabel Kid]

Try a bullet sized .454". I've got two lever guns chambered for the .45 Colt and both prefer the larger bullets. The Rossi I used to have did too.

If your shooting a hard cast bullet, you might also try a softer bullet. The .45 Colt does not need a hard cast bullet, it doesn't produce near enough pressure.

Joe

+1 on both counts.

Welcome to the fire!