Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
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- Senior Levergunner
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Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
Dangnabit! I over cut the front dovetail on my Lemonblock. I even stopped cutting the dove tail and worked the sight smaller to prevent this, but, even after leveling constantly, when I mounted the sight, it was tilted left! I had to level the dovetail in the barrel, and after it was done, its too big for even a normal 3/8!!!!
I hate that! I feel like such an idiot. I shimmed the beech front site I planned to use, and its all level now, but later, when I want to get a Soule sight and globe, I'll have to get a .450 front sight and carefully open up the slot.
I took this really slow too. But I swear, something is wrong with my eyes, or with my ability to measure. I cut notches in the barrel, filed it out square and level, then worked it with a safe triangle file till the sight could start to go in. Every 20 strokes with the file, level the receiver, level the slot, adjust, check the slot for square, adjust. Then when the sight can just start to go in, I stopped working the slot, and started working the sight. Get it in nice and snug, check it.... TILTED!!!!!! Dang it!!!!!
I hate that! I feel like such an idiot. I shimmed the beech front site I planned to use, and its all level now, but later, when I want to get a Soule sight and globe, I'll have to get a .450 front sight and carefully open up the slot.
I took this really slow too. But I swear, something is wrong with my eyes, or with my ability to measure. I cut notches in the barrel, filed it out square and level, then worked it with a safe triangle file till the sight could start to go in. Every 20 strokes with the file, level the receiver, level the slot, adjust, check the slot for square, adjust. Then when the sight can just start to go in, I stopped working the slot, and started working the sight. Get it in nice and snug, check it.... TILTED!!!!!! Dang it!!!!!
Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
Since it's all still in the white, can't you have it built back up and then recut it? Mig tig braze....
Kind regards,
Tycer
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
I dunno.... Can I? Would brazing or mig tig deform the bore right at the end? If not, sure, I could weld it up or have it done....
Weigh in, let me know.
Weigh in, let me know.
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
I just did a search on weldingweb, and they say NO NO NO NO NO!!! to welding a barrel. However, they did suggest silver soldering the sight up and recutting to fill the gap! That is an idea, and the sight was (comparitively) cheap enough that I might consider it.
However, I don't have a silver solder setup, but me mum did silver work and maybe I could use her stuff.....
However, I don't have a silver solder setup, but me mum did silver work and maybe I could use her stuff.....
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
No welding on the muzzle.........Period!
Cut the barrel back and start over...??
Cut the barrel back and start over...??
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
Barrel is pretty short already, just 26 inches. Like I said, I can expand the slot to a .450 dovetail, it just irritates me, because I have the worst time cutting straight lines level things etc. Its like I have dislexia with tools.
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
+1 on the welding. BIG NO,NO! Since it's not blued the only option I see is sliver solder. Done it a couple of times myself and it came out good.rbertalotto wrote:No welding on the muzzle.........Period!
Cut the barrel back and start over...??
Mainehunter
Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
How about dimpling the bottom of the site with a arrogant idiot-punch to raise "craters" on the surface that mates with the barrel, this should take up more room. this was done on old pistols when the site loosened up over the years.
Also, get one of those knife blade type feeler gauges, pick out which 10-thousanths thickness you need, and solder that onto the site bottom, then file to shape. Nary a torch comes near the barrel.
And lastly, line it up real well and J-B Weld it. - Brian
Also, get one of those knife blade type feeler gauges, pick out which 10-thousanths thickness you need, and solder that onto the site bottom, then file to shape. Nary a torch comes near the barrel.
And lastly, line it up real well and J-B Weld it. - Brian
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
Can you silver solder in the dove tail? Isnt that as bad as welding? I was thinking of silver soldering on the sight.Mainehunter wrote:+1 on the welding. BIG NO,NO! Since it's not blued the only option I see is sliver solder. Done it a couple of times myself and it came out good.rbertalotto wrote:No welding on the muzzle.........Period!
Cut the barrel back and start over...??
Mainehunter
Cant stipple, at least not the beech site as I already worked it smaller. i ahve a pretty big shim in there. For now, I'll leave it and get a .450 globe site one of these days when i have the money.
- AJMD429
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
WHAT if you took a separate piece of metal, carefully dovetailed it to fit your sight (or purchased a pre-dovetailed ramp or chunk of scrap barrel), and enlarged your cut enough to set in THAT piece of metal into your barrel...?
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
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"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
And then dovetailed that? Dont think I havent considered that... unless you were kidding....AJMD429 wrote:WHAT if you took a separate piece of metal, carefully dovetailed it to fit your sight (or purchased a pre-dovetailed ramp or chunk of scrap barrel), and enlarged your cut enough to set in THAT piece of metal into your barrel...?
- El Chivo
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
make yourself a custom sight out of stock metal, make it just right to fit your new dovetail.
Skinner sights used to do custom front sights, I sent in a drawing and he did it for me. This was before he sold the business, but I would bet the new guy will do it too. Just tell them the new dimensions of your new dovetail.
When you sell the rifle, tell them it's the European standard dovetail.
Skinner sights used to do custom front sights, I sent in a drawing and he did it for me. This was before he sold the business, but I would bet the new guy will do it too. Just tell them the new dimensions of your new dovetail.
When you sell the rifle, tell them it's the European standard dovetail.
"I'll tell you what living is. You get up when you feel like it. You fry yourself some eggs. You see what kind of a day it is."
- Sixgun
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
Man, you worry too much. Screwing up only makes you better the next time.
Look here, the gun is not a 300 Weatherby with massive recoil. Clean everything up real good and make sure its degreased.
Mix up some 2 part PC-7 epoxy and a small batch of 2 part 5 minute epoxy. Then mix the whole mess together and fill in the dovetail. Set your sight in there and level it with a small square. Using a tool of some sort, fill in the gaps. Let it dry.
The reason you add the other 5 minute epoxy to the PC-7 is because it will end up real smooth, like steel, unlike using PC-7 by itself. There will be no tiny holes to suck in oil or paint...it will be smoooooothhhh.
Let it harden for a day, then get out your artists paint brush and paint the glued area semi-gloss black---you may not have to do this as PC-7 is black.
If you get tired of or have a need to change the front sight, just hit the area with a propane torch and you will be back where you started.......your angled dovetail.
I've built up front sights with PC-7 on 44 magnums and they lasted for years or until I had the proper higher sight put on.----------------------------------------------------------Sixgun
Look here, the gun is not a 300 Weatherby with massive recoil. Clean everything up real good and make sure its degreased.
Mix up some 2 part PC-7 epoxy and a small batch of 2 part 5 minute epoxy. Then mix the whole mess together and fill in the dovetail. Set your sight in there and level it with a small square. Using a tool of some sort, fill in the gaps. Let it dry.
The reason you add the other 5 minute epoxy to the PC-7 is because it will end up real smooth, like steel, unlike using PC-7 by itself. There will be no tiny holes to suck in oil or paint...it will be smoooooothhhh.
Let it harden for a day, then get out your artists paint brush and paint the glued area semi-gloss black---you may not have to do this as PC-7 is black.
If you get tired of or have a need to change the front sight, just hit the area with a propane torch and you will be back where you started.......your angled dovetail.
I've built up front sights with PC-7 on 44 magnums and they lasted for years or until I had the proper higher sight put on.----------------------------------------------------------Sixgun
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
Sixgun, that sounds like a good trick, but I am so sloppy as it is, I shudder to think how that would look....
But, I have a couple of old barrels now, the mauser I practiced the dovetails on and the old barrel from this gun. I'd like to practice this. Where do you get this type of epoxy? I have never heard of it. If I can do it well, maybe I'll try it on my Steven's which has that slightly over sized dovetail of .460 and doesnt even fit the .450 front sights.
But, I have a couple of old barrels now, the mauser I practiced the dovetails on and the old barrel from this gun. I'd like to practice this. Where do you get this type of epoxy? I have never heard of it. If I can do it well, maybe I'll try it on my Steven's which has that slightly over sized dovetail of .460 and doesnt even fit the .450 front sights.
- AJMD429
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
How does that make it so much smoother - is it just because it sets faster...???Sixgun wrote:The reason you add the other 5 minute epoxy to the PC-7 is because it will end up real smooth, like steel, unlike using PC-7 by itself. There will be no tiny holes to suck in oil or paint...it will be smoooooothhhh.
I try to be sure and screw up a couple times a week, just to keep myself in top performance...Sixgun wrote:Man, you worry too much. Screwing up only makes you better the next time.
Not exactly - Dovetail the add-on piece FIRST, so if you screw it up, you haven't messed up the 'gun' yet.FatJackDurham wrote:And then dovetailed that? Dont think I havent considered that... unless you were kidding....
I like Sixgun's epoxy idea though, particularly if you can do a good color-match.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
A lot of times you can dimple the bottom of the dovetail to tighten it up. Also you can tap the ears down to tighten it up.
Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
that's the best quote I've seen in along time...made my day... :)Sixgun wrote:Man, you worry too much. Screwing up only makes you better the next time.
- handirifle
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
But if it's angled, I think the sight would lean if be bent the ears down.Dave wrote:A lot of times you can dimple the bottom of the dovetail to tighten it up. Also you can tap the ears down to tighten it up.
Nothing special needed to silver solder, just the proper flux and solder, and a propane torch. You might also get by with an old autobody trick and use lead to fill the angled area, and re-file.
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
If you don`t have one of these,GET ONE !!
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools ... d5769.aspx
I use the #5 lens in mine. If you use dime store readers to see detailed work know that those cheap lenses distort the view. I use them but when doing high detail work for precision I always use my Optivisor. Kinda expensive now and they were spendy back about 30 years ago when I bought mine.
You will never do detail work without them once you try them.
That said, I would make a new front sight from scratch to fit the oversize dovetail after you true it up.
Here is one I made for my Ruger SP101 .22 a couple weeks ago.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools ... d5769.aspx
I use the #5 lens in mine. If you use dime store readers to see detailed work know that those cheap lenses distort the view. I use them but when doing high detail work for precision I always use my Optivisor. Kinda expensive now and they were spendy back about 30 years ago when I bought mine.
You will never do detail work without them once you try them.
That said, I would make a new front sight from scratch to fit the oversize dovetail after you true it up.
Here is one I made for my Ruger SP101 .22 a couple weeks ago.
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
Wow nice! Dod you do all that by hand?
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
No, I used my milling machine BUT the final fitting is done with jewelers files.
The mill just hogs the waste off and keeps things straight.
The mill just hogs the waste off and keeps things straight.
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
Ah. I dont have a mill. Yet.Chuck 100 yd wrote:No, I used my milling machine BUT the final fitting is done with jewelers files.
The mill just hogs the waste off and keeps things straight.
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
Just solder a shim to the bottom of the sight. Make it thick enough so you can shape it to fit the larger dovetail but also thick enough to correct the leaning sight.
BTW, Solder it on then shape.
BTW, Solder it on then shape.
Steve Young aka Nate Kiowa Jones Sass# 6765
Steve's Guns aka "Rossi 92 Specialists"
205 Antler lane
Lampasas, Texas 76550
http://www.stevesgunz.com
Email; steve@stevesgunz.com
Tel: 512-564-1015
Steve's Guns aka "Rossi 92 Specialists"
205 Antler lane
Lampasas, Texas 76550
http://www.stevesgunz.com
Email; steve@stevesgunz.com
Tel: 512-564-1015
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
Thanks, that is what I was thinking.Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:Just solder a shim to the bottom of the sight. Make it thick enough so you can shape it to fit the larger dovetail but also thick enough to correct the leaning sight.
BTW, Solder it on then shape.
I have a question, though. everyone talks about "Silver" soldering, but silver melts at 1763 F, while I read that some "silver" solders melt as low as 1145 F. Lead/Tin plumbing solder melts as low as 361 F, but that cant be what you recommend. But, at 1000 is the alloy on the sight itself good enoug?
What kind of torch do I need for gunsmith silver soldering. I have a regular oxycetaline rig, but is that too hot?
i have been wondering about silver soldering for a while. It seems like something I should do. I have done brazing on steel with the oxy torch, but again that is so hot. wonder what kind of equipment is used on silver soldering. Can someone give me a quick downlow?
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
FatJackDurham wrote:Thanks, that is what I was thinking.Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:Just solder a shim to the bottom of the sight. Make it thick enough so you can shape it to fit the larger dovetail but also thick enough to correct the leaning sight.
BTW, Solder it on then shape.
I have a question, though. everyone talks about "Silver" soldering, but silver melts at 1763 F, while I read that some "silver" solders melt as low as 1145 F. Lead/Tin plumbing solder melts as low as 361 F, but that cant be what you recommend. But, at 1000 is the alloy on the sight itself good enoug?
What kind of torch do I need for gunsmith silver soldering. I have a regular oxycetaline rig, but is that too hot?
i have been wondering about silver soldering for a while. It seems like something I should do. I have done brazing on steel with the oxy torch, but again that is so hot. wonder what kind of equipment is used on silver soldering. Can someone give me a quick downlow?
Check these out.
Hi-Force 44 Solder
Hi-Temp Hi-Force 44 Solder
Steve Young aka Nate Kiowa Jones Sass# 6765
Steve's Guns aka "Rossi 92 Specialists"
205 Antler lane
Lampasas, Texas 76550
http://www.stevesgunz.com
Email; steve@stevesgunz.com
Tel: 512-564-1015
Steve's Guns aka "Rossi 92 Specialists"
205 Antler lane
Lampasas, Texas 76550
http://www.stevesgunz.com
Email; steve@stevesgunz.com
Tel: 512-564-1015
Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
Just a tiny bit of advice. If you are unfamiliar with silver solder, get some relatively inexpensive pieces of copper at a hardware store in the plumbing section, and practice on them. Silver solder can be chased around the object it is on and when you stop the heat, it is sucked into the crack or crevice of the mating surfaces. It is not terribly easy to get the hang of, but it doesn't take too much to learn. I put in my water heater and had to learn silver soldering that way. No leaks in almost 10 years, so it is apparently done correctly. A little bit of flux goes a long way and both parts need to be very clean.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
- AJMD429
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
I did not realize I had been 'sweat' or 'silver' soldering for years, every time I fired up the propane torch to do some plumbing.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
Okay, i see. Based on the temps listed, it seems these are similar to lead tin solder, but not pure silver. Since it says to heat the part, not the solder, would you use a small torch, say like a hand held butane torch?
Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
I bought one of the ones that can also use MAPP gas, and the tip swirls the flame. It is plenty hot enough to do the job.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Arrgh! I overcut the front site dovetail!!!!
What model is that?piller wrote:I bought one of the ones that can also use MAPP gas, and the tip swirls the flame. It is plenty hot enough to do the job.