Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
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Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
I finished the first pass at polishing the receiver, and while waiting for my new barrel to arrive, I decided to see what I could do about the wood. If the barrel works out, eventually, I'll get some nice wood from someone like Treebone Carving, but for now, I wanted to use the beat up old stock for some practice on repair, inletting, dent raising, shaping, buttplate fitting, and bedding.
Fortunately, the butt stock that came with this gun provides ample opportunity to practice.
The original fit was pretty bad, and showed signs of repair such as red filler, nails, etc. It was also pretty brittle and cracked on the end. I wanted to practice inletting and fitting, since I will need to do that if I get new wood, so I decided to cut out the cracked tang inlet and replace the wood with doner blocks from the long forend, which I will shorten to a sporter type. In retrospect, I should have cut the blocks and tang area on an angle, so that the block of wood would blend with the grain at least. Lesson Learned #1 - Try to blend repairs with the grain.
This angle shows the approximate quality of the picture in the online sale post. It shows the missing part of wood near the stock, and gives a hint of the wear, but it doesn't look as bad as it was. On the right, is where I left off today, after fitting the stock and filling the wood to fit the metal.
The area on the original didn't meet the receiver, and you can see the damage better. The other side was as bad, and underneath was chewed up pretty good, too. Again, I wish I had thought to trim the bad part off on an angle, matching the grain, rather than flat, matching the inlet. I moved the inlet about a quarter of an inch further into the stock, and will shape the ridge to match it. On the right, the replacement wood is on top, some of the epoxy bedding is showing and it meets nearly flush all around. I can actually move it forward about 2 - 3 mm and it will meet the receiver perfectly. I may do that. I filed the stock flat to match the receiver face, and filed it down to the tang to match the curve of the top of the receiver.
Up close, the cracking of the butt near the plate is more obvious as well as the fact that the buttplate doesn't actually fit at all. The plate doesn't have a stamp number that matches the receiver. In fact, I sort of wonder if it is actually from a Springfield. On the right, (actually a reverse image from the other side) I have matched it to the wood and filed it to fit all around. This was actually pretty easy. I used Prussian Blue on the plate and rubbed it against the wood. Then I used my Dremel to carefully remove the wood where the paint rubbed off. Even with a Dremel, the fit came out great. I haven't even epoxy bedded it, I didn't have to.
The cracking at the end of the butt was so bad, I moved the plate in about half an inch. I am very pleased with the fit of the inlet on this piece. I thought that would be the hard part, but the hard part was actually lining up the inlet on the tang. The rear of the butt ended up twisted a little and is a quarter inch to the right. I turned the but plate a little and am using a ferrier's file to reshape the stock to minimize this. Lesson Learned #2: Find out the right way to align a stock when inletting. Oh, well. I'll tell everyone I off set it on purpose to make it easier to aim. I saw on the Midway Youtube video how to fill in an old screw hole with a dowel and drill new ones.
To move the buttplate back a half inch and remove the cracked wood, I measured in around the edge a quarter of an inch, scribed it, and chiseled the wood away with my flat inletting chisel. After that, I did the blue marking and Dremeling to fit. Ended up going back another quarter inch.
Because I am having to reshape the sides of the stock to accommodate my alignment error, I won't have much left in the way of dents to practice steaming them up. Fortunately, there are some primo pings in the bottom of the stock!
That is all for now. I will finish fitting and shaping the stock by Friday. The barrel came yesterday, so I'll take the receiver and barrel to the gunsmith Saturday, and then start Tung oiling the stock.
Fortunately, the butt stock that came with this gun provides ample opportunity to practice.
The original fit was pretty bad, and showed signs of repair such as red filler, nails, etc. It was also pretty brittle and cracked on the end. I wanted to practice inletting and fitting, since I will need to do that if I get new wood, so I decided to cut out the cracked tang inlet and replace the wood with doner blocks from the long forend, which I will shorten to a sporter type. In retrospect, I should have cut the blocks and tang area on an angle, so that the block of wood would blend with the grain at least. Lesson Learned #1 - Try to blend repairs with the grain.
This angle shows the approximate quality of the picture in the online sale post. It shows the missing part of wood near the stock, and gives a hint of the wear, but it doesn't look as bad as it was. On the right, is where I left off today, after fitting the stock and filling the wood to fit the metal.
The area on the original didn't meet the receiver, and you can see the damage better. The other side was as bad, and underneath was chewed up pretty good, too. Again, I wish I had thought to trim the bad part off on an angle, matching the grain, rather than flat, matching the inlet. I moved the inlet about a quarter of an inch further into the stock, and will shape the ridge to match it. On the right, the replacement wood is on top, some of the epoxy bedding is showing and it meets nearly flush all around. I can actually move it forward about 2 - 3 mm and it will meet the receiver perfectly. I may do that. I filed the stock flat to match the receiver face, and filed it down to the tang to match the curve of the top of the receiver.
Up close, the cracking of the butt near the plate is more obvious as well as the fact that the buttplate doesn't actually fit at all. The plate doesn't have a stamp number that matches the receiver. In fact, I sort of wonder if it is actually from a Springfield. On the right, (actually a reverse image from the other side) I have matched it to the wood and filed it to fit all around. This was actually pretty easy. I used Prussian Blue on the plate and rubbed it against the wood. Then I used my Dremel to carefully remove the wood where the paint rubbed off. Even with a Dremel, the fit came out great. I haven't even epoxy bedded it, I didn't have to.
The cracking at the end of the butt was so bad, I moved the plate in about half an inch. I am very pleased with the fit of the inlet on this piece. I thought that would be the hard part, but the hard part was actually lining up the inlet on the tang. The rear of the butt ended up twisted a little and is a quarter inch to the right. I turned the but plate a little and am using a ferrier's file to reshape the stock to minimize this. Lesson Learned #2: Find out the right way to align a stock when inletting. Oh, well. I'll tell everyone I off set it on purpose to make it easier to aim. I saw on the Midway Youtube video how to fill in an old screw hole with a dowel and drill new ones.
To move the buttplate back a half inch and remove the cracked wood, I measured in around the edge a quarter of an inch, scribed it, and chiseled the wood away with my flat inletting chisel. After that, I did the blue marking and Dremeling to fit. Ended up going back another quarter inch.
Because I am having to reshape the sides of the stock to accommodate my alignment error, I won't have much left in the way of dents to practice steaming them up. Fortunately, there are some primo pings in the bottom of the stock!
That is all for now. I will finish fitting and shaping the stock by Friday. The barrel came yesterday, so I'll take the receiver and barrel to the gunsmith Saturday, and then start Tung oiling the stock.
Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
That does it,
I have just HAVE to finish setting up my roto-carve.
I have just HAVE to finish setting up my roto-carve.
- ollogger
- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
Jack you inspire me, id of planted that gun in the garden, plus been mad at myself
forever for buying that lemon, but you maned up & seen a challenge & I think your
gonna have a fine gun when your done, Thanks for your posts
ollogger
forever for buying that lemon, but you maned up & seen a challenge & I think your
gonna have a fine gun when your done, Thanks for your posts
ollogger
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
Thanks for your kind words. Here is what happened:ollogger wrote:Jack you inspire me, id of planted that gun in the garden, plus been mad at myself
forever for buying that lemon, but you maned up & seen a challenge & I think your
gonna have a fine gun when your done, Thanks for your posts
ollogger
I hate my job
I fantasize that i quit my job and take classes in gunsmithing
I fantasize that i travel around buying cheap guns that amateurs have botched, renew them, and sell them to people that want a real antique that shoots 1 MOA.
I order a Rolling Block online in 45-70, hoping that it is as good a gun as the 1884 Trapdoor I bought at Kittery for $425, a nearly perfect shooter that had it's historic value ruined by someone else.
I scrimp and save, dealing with $1000 fuel bills, $1000 deductables for car repairs, the wife leaving, the wife's mother's cat who lives with me making me post naughty pictures of Nipponese cat maids, work, etc.
I get the gun, and it is clearly cobbled together from spare parts.
I consider returning it.
I test it and the headspace is .017 off because the previous owner used a dremel to cut off the face of the barrel before relining a bent barrel.
I call the seller who offers to refund the money
I hem and haw, and miss the return deadline, and then find even more defects.
Then, I remember my fantasy. This gun is the perfect learning tool, and it's my own darn fault for paying $700 for a $50 gun. And, lets be honest, probably at least two other owners lost money, and messed this gun up.
I hate my job, and I do want to quit and maybe learn machine work and gunsmithing. I sold my snowmobile, paid my debts and have enough money to by a 45-70 barrel and pay to have it fitted.
Am I really going to let this learning opportunity slip away and claim I was cheated or that it was not my fault?
H3LL$ N0!!!!!!!
The second worst time in my life was basic training. I don't play well with others. The Drills hated me. But I graduated.
The First worst time in my life was nursing my dad to death from lung cancer.
After those two? Nothing else is beyond my reach.
Ethan Allen, one of America's first terrorists, and vermont's patron founding father said "To pray for what God has put beyond your reach is to doubt his divine wisdom, to pray for God to deliver what you can acheive on your own is laziness in the extreme."
The bad purchase is in my rear view mirror. It might take me three more months, but by July 4th, I will go to the Dalton Gang shooting range and shoot smokeless out of my Springfield and BP out of a Remington Rolling Block #1 that I restored at my own direction, and place in the top three.
Period.
- ollogger
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
Ya Jack, Ive been watching the lemon project
as far as your personal life goes, I wish there were more like you
ollogger
as far as your personal life goes, I wish there were more like you
ollogger
Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
Nice! Thanks for the pics and the writeup. More please!!
Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
FatJackDuram,....................................
YOU ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mescalero
YOU ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mescalero
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
Jack,
You may have bought a lemon but to my thinking you are getting more out of it than is obvious. Training, as in lessons learned can be priceless. To me, I see it as God giving you the project you need right now. Praying for you brother.
You may have bought a lemon but to my thinking you are getting more out of it than is obvious. Training, as in lessons learned can be priceless. To me, I see it as God giving you the project you need right now. Praying for you brother.
M. M. Wright, Sheriff, Green county Arkansas (1860)
Currently living my eternal life.
NRA Life
SASS
ITSASS
Currently living my eternal life.
NRA Life
SASS
ITSASS
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
I always say when live hands you lemons, make Mike's hard lemonaid
Trump 2024
All responses have been cleared by the law firm of "Elmer and Fudd."
All responses have been cleared by the law firm of "Elmer and Fudd."
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
Tried steaming, but I should have steamed before the sanding. After steaming, all the grains opened up and raised and I had to sand again. But then, since I had already shaped and fit the metal, I didn't want to sand too much. Lesson Learned #3 - If you need to steam up a dent, do it before sanding.
From Left to Right
Original - Dents near some cuts and cracks
Sanded - Its hard to see, but the dents are still there
Steamed - The dents raised up quite well, though all the grains opened up and dirt and stain became more apparent
Stained and Tung Oil - As you can see by the shine, the dents are mostly gone.
Additional treatments, I am told, can raise the dents up more, but you should let the stock dry for several days in between.
Stock is done for now. I didn't get the stock flush to the receiver, I seem to be rounding the corners. I am going to let it be for now, because one of my repairs is cracked. I need to use pins to solidfy that, but I want to do that after the barrel. So for now, it's off to the gunsmith for rebarreling.
From Left to Right
Original - Dents near some cuts and cracks
Sanded - Its hard to see, but the dents are still there
Steamed - The dents raised up quite well, though all the grains opened up and dirt and stain became more apparent
Stained and Tung Oil - As you can see by the shine, the dents are mostly gone.
Additional treatments, I am told, can raise the dents up more, but you should let the stock dry for several days in between.
Stock is done for now. I didn't get the stock flush to the receiver, I seem to be rounding the corners. I am going to let it be for now, because one of my repairs is cracked. I need to use pins to solidfy that, but I want to do that after the barrel. So for now, it's off to the gunsmith for rebarreling.
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
I don't quite like this Belgian Blue. It doesn't seem to penetrate as well as the rust blue does.... we'll see.
Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
Looking good. At the rate your going you will have a great looking functional roller in no time.
Jeremy
GySgt USMC Ret
To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy
Semper Fidelis
GySgt USMC Ret
To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy
Semper Fidelis
- Sixgun
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
That's nice work and............a labor of love as I see you take pride in what you do. Taking the time to take pics and post shows the rest of us that if you take your time and think ahead, not much is hard to do. Like you, I hate my job but playing with the old guns really relaxes the nerves and gives one a sense of accomplishment, unlike the corporate bas&&rds many of us work for.
Every job is a learning process and we all get better with each job. I could never do gunsmithing as a job because I take my time and time is money. I do favors for my bud at Targetmaster and he really nailed me yesterday by handing me an Colt SAA, made in 1892 that someone changed out the innards and the timing is off real bad. This ought to be fun.
Next time you get a stock with lots of dents and all greased up, spray it down with oven cleaner and let it sit overnight, spraying it down every now and then. You would be amazed how many dents disappear. The next day, wash off the oven cleaner with hot water with a brush or steel wool and while the wood is still hot and wet, then steam out what dents are left. Get some steel wool, soak it in pure bleach and give it hell. Rinse with water and let that sit a half day or so or blow out the water with compressed air. That wood will look like it just came off the stock making machine. ------------Sixgun
Every job is a learning process and we all get better with each job. I could never do gunsmithing as a job because I take my time and time is money. I do favors for my bud at Targetmaster and he really nailed me yesterday by handing me an Colt SAA, made in 1892 that someone changed out the innards and the timing is off real bad. This ought to be fun.
Next time you get a stock with lots of dents and all greased up, spray it down with oven cleaner and let it sit overnight, spraying it down every now and then. You would be amazed how many dents disappear. The next day, wash off the oven cleaner with hot water with a brush or steel wool and while the wood is still hot and wet, then steam out what dents are left. Get some steel wool, soak it in pure bleach and give it hell. Rinse with water and let that sit a half day or so or blow out the water with compressed air. That wood will look like it just came off the stock making machine. ------------Sixgun
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
wow! Sixgun! Thanks so much for the gunsmithing tips! Will you post the SAA project? I cant wait to see it!
- Sixgun
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
FatJackDurham wrote:wow! Sixgun! Thanks so much for the gunsmithing tips! Will you post the SAA project? I cant wait to see it!
Yea Jack, I'm off today and I plan on giving it a workout outside. if...........................big if...............I can get the cylinder to unlock as I start to pull the hammer back. I think I just have to take a few thou. off the bolt and repolish (that's a funny word---repolish..................does that mean the reproduction of a Polish person) ---------Sixgun
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
... -.-Sixgun wrote:FatJackDurham wrote:wow! Sixgun! Thanks so much for the gunsmithing tips! Will you post the SAA project? I cant wait to see it!
Yea Jack, I'm off today and I plan on giving it a workout outside. if...........................big if...............I can get the cylinder to unlock as I start to pull the hammer back. I think I just have to take a few thou. off the bolt and repolish (that's a funny word---repolish..................does that mean the reproduction of a Polish person) ---------Sixgun
Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
One word of caution with oven cleaner and bleach - rinse very, very well in between. Oven cleaner is a strong base and should react with bleach in the same way as ammonia does - by liberating chlorine gas.
Stock looks great, I never would have guessed it would clean up so well.
Stock looks great, I never would have guessed it would clean up so well.
Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
Very nice work! The old adage to measure twice and cut once is especially true with gunstock work. You have inspired me to attack a cracked 94 stock that I have been avoiding for a year or so. Thanks for posting.
- Sixgun
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
Dang! Words of knowledge. Never thought about that. Thanx---------------Sixgun (could explain my mental issues)92&94 wrote:One word of caution with oven cleaner and bleach - rinse very, very well in between. Oven cleaner is a strong base and should react with bleach in the same way as ammonia does - by liberating chlorine gas.
Stock looks great, I never would have guessed it would clean up so well.
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
Sixgun wrote:Dang! Words of knowledge. Never thought about that. Thanx---------------Sixgun (could explain my mental issues)92&94 wrote:One word of caution with oven cleaner and bleach - rinse very, very well in between. Oven cleaner is a strong base and should react with bleach in the same way as ammonia does - by liberating chlorine gas.
Stock looks great, I never would have guessed it would clean up so well.
thanks! I knew about clorox and ammonia, but I didn't know about oven cleaner....
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
When this gun arrived, I tried to find the ad again to look at the photos, but the seller had pulled it.
He didn't however pull the same add on another site;
http://www.gunsamerica.com/988723786/RE ... _45_70.htm
After pulling the images, I notices a number of strange things:
I wasn't crazy. The fit of the buttplate is different in the photo. In fact, the photo has been photo shopped along the edge of the plate in the add, as visible by the strangely parallel streaks.
The missing piece of the stock along the tang was on the bottom in the photo and on the gun I received on the top. As well, the putty filler wasn't in the ad photo.
Back to the right side, the grain pattern and the dents and cracks are completely different....
I have sent an email to the seller, with these photos, and asked him for his opinion on refunding half of the money. We'll see. Now that I have these photos, if he tries to blow smoke, I'll send them to both the gun ad sites. BTW, before he takes the GunsAmerica ad down, you are welcome to note the seller name, you know, for your own future reference.
He didn't however pull the same add on another site;
http://www.gunsamerica.com/988723786/RE ... _45_70.htm
After pulling the images, I notices a number of strange things:
I wasn't crazy. The fit of the buttplate is different in the photo. In fact, the photo has been photo shopped along the edge of the plate in the add, as visible by the strangely parallel streaks.
The missing piece of the stock along the tang was on the bottom in the photo and on the gun I received on the top. As well, the putty filler wasn't in the ad photo.
Back to the right side, the grain pattern and the dents and cracks are completely different....
I have sent an email to the seller, with these photos, and asked him for his opinion on refunding half of the money. We'll see. Now that I have these photos, if he tries to blow smoke, I'll send them to both the gun ad sites. BTW, before he takes the GunsAmerica ad down, you are welcome to note the seller name, you know, for your own future reference.
Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
Like I said FatJack,
You Rock!
Good detective work, yes; this guy is a nasty person.
You Rock!
Good detective work, yes; this guy is a nasty person.
- ollogger
- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
Get the CREEP JACK, he needs a lesson
btw you have a great veiw from your window!
ollogger
btw you have a great veiw from your window!
ollogger
- Griff
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
Your work is fabulous. I'm ashamed of my own attempts. And yes, get the creep!
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
Well, Griff, thanks. I admit modestly that I have improved my skills slightly since I first tried cold bluing on my Stevens Favorite. I definitely want to get to the point where I can do a rebarrel job and trigger tuning myself. Hopefully, I can find a gunsmith school I can attend somewhere. In one of the books I read, the author said he taught classes at a community college in Texas that had gunsmithing courses. Maybe I can find one and relocate there. Then, I can hold down a computer for a couple of semesters while take the classes.Griff wrote:Your work is fabulous. I'm ashamed of my own attempts. And yes, get the creep!
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
I had a nice chat with the seller. He has agreed to send $200 to offset my gunsmith costs. Success!
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Re: Project Lemonton: Buttstock work
Yes! Of course a promise to pay is different than cash in hand.....