How does one make a 1911 feed PERFECTLY...???

[AJMD429]

Unfortunately, the gunsmith I used to know, who seemingly could make any 1911 you handed him feed wadcutters reliably, couldn't kick the tobacco habit, and had a disabling stroke; his son now does the gunsmithing, but after a bent scope-base on a breakopen shotgun and a really awful job attaching a flash suppressor on a non-threaded AR, I don't think he inherited his dad's skills.

I don't want to send a gun off out-of-state to someone I don't know, even with a 'good reputation', and wait unknown-many-months for its return, still not knowing if it REALLY will feed flawlessly.

I don't know anyone local who I have enough feedback on to figure could do the job any better than a random monkey with a file and sandpaper.

Therefore, I'm considering doing a "feed job" myself. I don't really want to do it, but like 90% of the other stuff around the home/farm/reloading bench, it seems it always comes back to "if you want it done right, do it yourself".

Any books on the subject? Any articles on-line?

I really want to make my Para Ordnance P-14 my CCW gun, because of ALL the handguns I've ever shot (except my 7-1/2" Ruger Bisley 44 Magnum ), that one is THE one that feels best in my hand. BUT I've only fired about 2,000 rounds through that gun, and it has failed to feed the Speer 'flying ashtray' JHP's maybe eight or ten times during those rounds. I don't want a gun that fails to feed ANY rounds.

My generic and abused AMT single-stack 1911 DOES feed perfectly, time after time, regardless of ammo type, but it does NOT feel "right" in my hand, and I can't see any good reason to sacrifice 50% of my magazine capacity AND have to use a gun that doesn't feel right in my hand.

Any thoughts or advice...? I even thought I would consider sending it to Para Ordnance for a feed-job, but no other places I know enough to trust, especially since some consider the wide-body double-stack guns to be 'strange' and use that as an excuse to allow them to fail.

[Lastmohecken]

I am no gunsmith but I have worked on 1911's quite a bit, but never the Para. On a regular 1911 it usually comes down to polishing the feed ramp, and throating the opening of the chamber. I have had some guns that were radically throated, and some that were pretty conservative in the throating. Usually they fed very well.

Three other things that will cause a gun to fail to feed. One is faulty magazines, and some guns will feed anything out of almost any old magazine, others are more picky and different brands of mags will work better then others. Unfortunately, I don't know how many choices you have on the wide body 1911. Personally, I prefer to stay with the standard platform.

Secondly, on the 1911, is how well the extractor is adjusted. I had a very reliable 1911 start jamming on me, that I had shot for years, in IPSC competition. I installed and also adjusted a new Wilson Combat bulletproof extractor and never had another problem.

And third, can be overall loaded round length. This happened to me once, when my Wilson Combat 1911 was brand new. It seems that I had been loading my handloads too long, and while my old colt series 70 fed them fine, the Wilson did not seem to. I done a little research and went with Bill Wilson's suggestion in one of his books on overall length, (I was shooting 200gr semi-wadcutters) and never had any more problems. And I never had problems with factory rounds in it. It was just that my old handloads I had used for years in the old colt, were a little long, but the old Colt worked fine with them.

[TedH]

I have tinkered with mine, and upgraded many of the parts, including the barrel. It feeds everything I have put in it, always. However, I feel like that was just the way it worked out, not due to any particular skill on my part.

If you want to start in on any 1911, I would highly recommend this book.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/199119 ... ugv1193148

[cfplinker]

In the book mentioned above, look at the section on magazine tuning as well as the section on opening up the feed ramp. I have also found that leaving about .030 of the wadcutter ahead of the case mouth helps. The other thing I have done is to install Pachmeyer followers in all of my magazines.

[Glenn]

AJMD429,
Wadcutters usually need "early release" magazines. These have the stepped feed lips that open wider at an exact spot, look like a "dog-leg" or zig-zag shape. The old GI magazines just taper gradually wider, and work really well with ball ammo. With wide-body magazines I imagine you're choices are really limited, unfortunately.
Here's a good article on the subject:
http://how-i-did-it.org/magazines/index.html
Glenn

edit: added link

[piller]

Still on this topic, sort of, are there any particular aftermarket barrels that work better than others for feeding reliability and accuracy than others for the 1911? It seems to me that there might be a barrel manufacturer who makes them already ramped and throated. Am I crazy?

[JB]

Sell it and buy a Glock. Just kidding, I had to say it!

Be careful with the tinkering. I've polished a number of them in my day, but I'm far from a gunsmith. You can screw a 1911 up pretty easy if you start removing metal. The fit of the frame ramp to barrel is fairly critical.

[Grizzly Adams]

Be careful with the tinkering. I've polished a number of them in my day, but I'm far from a gunsmith. You can screw a 1911 up pretty easy if you start removing metal. The fit of the frame ramp to barrel is fairly critical.

+1 Most problems with the 1911 are magazine related. I would start there.

[Pete44ru]

Still on this topic, sort of, are there any particular aftermarket barrels that work better than others for feeding reliability and accuracy than others for the 1911? It seems to me that there might be a barrel manufacturer who makes them already ramped and throated. Am I crazy?

Clarke makes the ramped/throated bbls, Brownell's sells them:

http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/ ... =CJ&ch=aff



.

[Pete44ru]

As posted above, look to the magazine(s) first, then shoot/test.

If there's still an issue, here's what a throated 1911 frame & barrel looks like.

This first picture shows the 1911 'barrel bed length'.
It is measured from the vertical impact surface to the top of the feed ramp.
You need to slightly angle your calipers to get beneath the top edge break of the VIS.
This measurement needs to be .246" minimum - This one measures right at .246".




The next two show a Kart bbl (sorry, IDK if a Para 1911 differs) faced back enough to leave the required "step" between bbl & frame, and re-throated to provide proper feeding & gap.



(lower bbl, below, is the modified bbl)



Here's a pic of a finished bbl throat, showing the unsupported case area. If needed it could be deepened a bit further.



FWIW, I've found it's better to just polish the existing surfaces first, then test/etc, before removing metal - it just might save ruining a frame and/or bbl.



.

[olyinaz]

It's not a 1911, it's a Para P-14. The fact that it's a P-14 complicates matters (ramped barrel, non-standard magazine, etc.), but I'm sure a solution exists.

However! I just don't understand why you would go to the trouble of carrying a thumper in .45 ACP only to stick .40 S&W weight bullets in it. The flying ash trays were all the rage 20+ years ago Doc. Move on! My P-14 digests Remington Golden Saber, Hornady Critical Defense, and Winchester PDX-1 like there's no tomorrow - never a failure to feed them yet. Same goes for my P-16.

Don't screw with an otherwise perfectly functioning gun when you find one load that it will not feed. SHOOT SOMETHING ELSE IN IT!!

[Catshooter]

Doc,

I think Oly has given you the road to follow. Pete has posted some great pics, but of course if your barrel is ramped they don't apply.

If you really want a pistol that feeds anything then either get a Gen 2 Smith & Wesson, a Glock or don't shoot the flying ashtrays.

A 1911 style pistol design is over 100 years old. Some of them will feed anything, but it's no safe bet. They can be made to feed anything, but it takes someone who really, really knows what they are about. Browning didn't have hollowpoints in his mind when he built the gun, they didn't exist for handguns.

Maybe you should send it to Pete!


Cat

[Mescalero]

In Pete's post, that barrel is resting against a 1,2,3 block.
I have two sets,not all, but mostly people who work around precision machining have thier own 1,2,3 blocks.

[Griff]

...it has failed to feed the Speer 'flying ashtray' JHP's maybe eight or ten times during those rounds. I don't want a gun that fails to feed ANY rounds.
Any thoughts or advice...?.

Speer doesn't produce the 200gr JHP ("flying ashtray") anymore. Gold Dots are its replacement. So send me those flying ashtrays and I'll replace 'em with the Gold Dots! Just trying to help out a brother levergunner!

[Mescalero]

They shoot just fine out of my customized 1917 S&W Griff.
If you need me to test your gold dots, send them to me.

[Griff]

They shoot just fine out of my customized 1917 S&W Griff.
If you need me to test your gold dots, send them to me.

Gold Dots are fine... BUT, the old "flying ashtrays" ARE ever SO MUCH better in a .45Colt!!!! The cannelure makes all the difference in the world.

[Mescalero]

I have a bunch of them in full moon clips for my 1917 house gun.
Hopefully Jeepnik has shot some in his, and can report.

[tman]

Sell it and buy a Glock. Just kidding, I had to say it!

Be careful with the tinkering. I've polished a number of them in my day, but I'm far from a gunsmith. You can screw a 1911 up pretty easy if you start removing metal. The fit of the frame ramp to barrel is fairly critical.

+1. the Glock put more than a few "Custom handgun Smiths" out of buisness. 1911 was designed for FMJ. It is never gonna feed perfectly with anything else. The Glock does.

[AJMD429]

The flying ash trays were all the rage 20+ years ago Doc. Move on! My P-14 digests Remington Golden Saber, Hornady Critical Defense, and Winchester PDX-1 like there's no tomorrow - never a failure to feed them yet. Same goes for my P-16.

Good points, and actually, I shot the last of those Speer 'Lawman' cartridges years ago. Golden Sabers actually SEEM to feed well, but only fired a few hundred; some 'jams' have been with hardball, but I shoot lots of commercial and semi-commercial (local gunshop) reloads, and so on.

I know part of the answer is I should pick a good bullet within reasonable expectations for the design, and buy about 10,000 of them, then start reloading and polishing and shooting and reloading and polishing some more...

[86er]

I just had my STI at the factory for a few maintenance items. It is worth a mention that they replaced everything that wears except the slide and frame including giving me a new magazine in less than 1/2 hour while I waited for the gun. All for free based on their lifetime of exceptional service warranty. Back to you point - I told them I shoot 230 grain Gold Dot's, primarily standards but sometimes "Short Barrel". The SB's have a wider-deeper hollow point. This pistol has a starter ramp on the frame and a ramped barrel. STI knew what contour was necessary for the wide Gold Dot's to feed. I do not know the technicalities of it but in lay-terms they said the contour and shoulders of the ramps would be cut and polished to compliment the Gold Dot bullet profile. I asked how that affects other bullet styles and they said pretty much anything of a narrower, pointier or rounder profile would benefit as well. Only a wider bullet or one with a very wide-flat nose may not appreciate the sloped angles of the feed ramp. I guess the point is - while I am no 1911 expert at all - it seems the ramp can be contoured to enhance performance with a particular bullet design. That may be all the tweaking you need to shoot those 'flying ashtrays' and anything of a lesser profile.

[AJMD429]

I think I'll email the company and see if Para Ordnance themselves do any kind of 'tune up', or if they have any 'recommended gunsmiths'.