Question about 'AK' rifles - the real ones

[AJMD429]

The Wolff ammo 'cooking-in-the-chamber' thing got me thinking; if a gun were an open-bolt one, such would never be an issue.

Are the 'AK' guns the various soviet-armed insurgent types have overseas semi-auto like our copies, or are they full-auto, or what...??? I'm sure some of the guys here have been 'over there' and shot at with those guns, and would know.

[Hobie]

Full-auto... The Iraqis are allowed to have one in every household, you know, for personal protection.

[AJMD429]

Are they open bolt or closed bolt?

[Pisgah]

Are they open bolt or closed bolt?

Closed.

[jd45]

They fire from a closed-bolt position. Go to YouTube, type AK-47 in the search box & select Hickock 45's vid on it. You'll see him rack the bolt rearward, let go of the handle & it'll slam forward to strip a cart from the mag, then fire. To me that's a tell-tale sign it fires from a closed bolt. Check it out Dr. It's fun. jd45
BTW, the BAR fires from an open bolt, IIRC.

[AJMD429]

What made me wonder was the stuff about the older (maybe newer too) 'coated' ammo having its coating soften and gum up the chamber; I suppose an open-bolt gun would avoid that somewhat.

[Mich Hunter]

The AK series rifles are closed bolt. The only open bolts these days on the modern battlefield are the belt feds. No matter with each you can still get a "cook off" with either design or have one fire out of battery. I have had more than my fair share of these with the M240, M249 and M60's. I have also had a M249 fire out of battery and blew the top cover off past my face. That resulted in the reciever buldging and the gun was junk after that. I have also had cook off's with the M16/M4 series rifle and have some pretty good pictures of one that blew up in the shooters hands(I have pretty good pictures I can post of this one). If you put enough rounds down a barrel in a short period, anything is possible.

[olyinaz]

But yes, cook off and cooling are why MGs and some SMGs are open bolt guns.

You'd think the Soviets would have some lore about the AK47/74 and lacquer on their ammo, but I've never heard it.

[cas]

If you search for it you can find video of people shooting AK's until its so hot the front wood bursts into flames. No cook offs for them, so what will and won't happen and when is anyone's guess. Just cause things CAN happen doesn't mean they will a any particular time.

[olyinaz]

If you search for it you can find video of people shooting AK's until its so hot the front wood bursts into flames. No cook offs for them, so what will and won't happen and when is anyone's guess. Just cause things CAN happen doesn't mean they will a any particular time.

A cook off takes some time. If you shoot a rifle until it's red hot and then close a round in the chamber it almost certainly will eventually cook off, it just doesn't happen immediately. I've seen it demoed with an M16 and it's always interesting to see a rifle that's glowing red hot but has not yet been heated to the point that the structural integrity of the steel is in doubt. Kinda scary! In general we got our butt's chewed out if we let our rifles get that hot, but it was sometimes the inevitable consequence of what we called "final protective fire" of a defensive fighting position. Any infantryman knows what I'm talking about, and it's a pretty stunning thing to see all machine guns and rifles racked over to their FPF stops and let go on full auto with full belts and mags until the cease fire is radioed down the line. I'm not talking at the range, I mean out in the field in a real dug in battalion defensive line meant to stop the commies! The curtain of red tracers interlacing in front of your defensive line is stunning.

Sorry, I digress...

[sore shoulder]

I've experienced cook offs with a 249 and M4. The M4 was interesting. And yes there is a delay.

The coating on commie ammo gumming things up is less likely to be an issue with a piston driven system and loose tolerances. I will not shoot it in an AR. I spent a lot of time cleaning that stuff from the chamber of a Match HBAR. The chamber and bolt of a piston gun stays a lot cooler

[BigSky56]

Oly digressing is a earned right, one good spec of a 60 is the open bolt design solves cook off problems. I have more than my share of trigger time with a 60 they can be tuned up to run fine, one of the major problems with them was using minigun linked ammo a problem for aviation gunners as there was cans of GE gatling gun 308 stacked up for the cobras so it was convenient to grab it. danny
forgot to add the Ma duce was a peach till it went out of time and headspace thats a bugger in a gunfight
some guys would keep part of a flack jacket in their lap to keep brass shards from wrecking their equipment same problem the waste gunners in WW2 experienced.