Casting for 357M

[Nath]

Gents, is it possible to cast from pure lead and hand lube for 357mag?

Could a grease cookie be used under the bullet?

I like the idea of a soft slug and lube coating the bore! Does that make any sense?

22 barrels never seem to rust do they!

Nath.

[gundownunder]

From your question I get the impression that you might be looking at this thing as a low pressure black powder kind of thing.
It isn't, it's a high pressure pistol cartridge designed for pressures in the region of 40,000 psi or cup.

I think pure lead would be way too soft, especially if you want to get any kind of useful velocity.
If you can get lead wheel weights in the UK they would be just about perfect for most things.
Head to the car boot sales and pick up a few pewter tankards and chuck 1 tankard in with every 20kg of lead and that will see you right for tin content. If you want to get fussy about all this stuff check out the writings of a gent named Glen Fryxell.

If you are interested in cast bullet shooting then the cast bullet forum is worthwhile adding to your list of favorites, there and here are the two most useful places on the internet as far as I know.

[Nath]

From your question I get the impression that you might be looking at this thing as a low pressure black powder kind of thing.
It isn't, it's a high pressure pistol cartridge designed for pressures in the region of 40,000 psi or cup.

I think pure lead would be way too soft, especially if you want to get any kind of useful velocity.
If you can get lead wheel weights in the UK they would be just about perfect for most things.
Head to the car boot sales and pick up a few pewter tankards and chuck 1 tankard in with every 20kg of lead and that will see you right for tin content. If you want to get fussy about all this stuff check out the writings of a gent named Glen Fryxell.

If you are interested in cast bullet shooting then the cast bullet forum is worthwhile adding to your list of favorites, there and here are the two most useful places on the internet as far as I know.

Thanks, will do. The pewter thing is a new one on me, never thought of that !

N.

[perry owens]

Hi Nath,
Hope you are still above water where you are.
I regularly cast 158 grain .357 magnum bullets from pure lead to use with black powder in my 1873 carbine.
I use this mould from Big Lube

It has a big lube groove which is what you need for BP. The bullet is long enough to load in a .38 spl case out to .357 magnum COL.
I lube mine in a lubrisizer but you can pan lube them if you need to. If you wanted to use them with smokeless I would say cast them with Lyman #2 alloy.
If you want to try some I can send some up to you.
Perry Owens

[Rusty]

Nath, I bought some of Veral Smith's lube a while back. He said in his instructions that if you don't have a luber/sizer his lube can be smeared into the grooves with your finger.

[Nath]

Hi Nath,
Hope you are still above water where you are.
I regularly cast 158 grain .357 magnum bullets from pure lead to use with black powder in my 1873 carbine.
I use this mould from Big Lube

It has a big lube groove which is what you need for BP. The bullet is long enough to load in a .38 spl case out to .357 magnum COL.
I lube mine in a lubrisizer but you can pan lube them if you need to. If you wanted to use them with smokeless I would say cast them with Lyman #2 alloy.
If you want to try some I can send some up to you.
Perry Owens

Hi Perry, happy hols to you and yep just about above water!

Thanks for your offer by the way, most kind of you

I did want to stick with smokeless in the 94ae IF I get the grant!

I know paper patching will work and I wondered if there was another way to keep the expanding qualities of soft lead.

I have no idea of alloys of yet, I just know softlead bumps up a treat!

Thanks everyone.

N.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I often shoot soft lead bullets in the .357 at modest velocity.
Adding tin makes them cast so much nicer though.
Try mixing a pound of lead free solder (mostly tin) in with 10-20 lb. of
pure lead for some very nice bullets.
Have fun!!

[Nath]

What if these 'ere soft lead bullets were gas checked??
N

[gundownunder]

It's all a question of pressure.
What powder are you planning to use, with which bullet?
After you answer that question you can multiply the pressure figure out of one of the reloading manuals by a formula, which will tell you what hardness your bullet needs to be to prevent leading. I can't remember the formula off the top of my head but it will be in Fryxell"s data somewhere.

I use a plain base bullet with a beer can gas check for my heavy loads for cowboy silhouette and the gas check did improve accuracy. If I wasn't already driving them flat out it would allow me to drive my bullets harder. Since I am already driving them flat out it will allow me to soften my alloy more without causing leading. This is good because at the moment my alloy is so hard that even at 200 yards it shatters when it hits steel, which is not ideal for silhouette where you want the bullet to hold together as much as possible after impact.

If it's expansion you want, try to get hold of a mold like the Lyman Devastator. It has a cavity in the nose you could park a truck (lorry to you) in. At the right velocity with the right alloy those things would go off inside a fox like a hand grenade.

[3leggedturtle]

Nath I have shot the Hornady and Speer Lead bullets. They are s'posed to be pure lead, given that they are swaged. They have been shot out of a T/C carbine at velocities from 780fps to 1425fps. These were averages I got when I chrono'ed about 5 diffrent loads. Never had any leading to speak of. In fact 2 patches down the bore left it shiny and clean.

[rhead]

Nothing gives down range performance like a pure lead bullet that has been paper patched. If this is for a hunting load you only need enough to sight it in and then what you hunt with.
Wrapping them is a motor skill and takes a while to learn. I shoot pure lead in my 30 30 at factory velocities with no problems. Going much over 2200 fps requires a lot of attention to detail but it can be done.

[Nath]

It's all a question of pressure.
What powder are you planning to use, with which bullet?
After you answer that question you can multiply the pressure figure out of one of the reloading manuals by a formula, which will tell you what hardness your bullet needs to be to prevent leading. I can't remember the formula off the top of my head but it will be in Fryxell"s data somewhere.

I use a plain base bullet with a beer can gas check for my heavy loads for cowboy silhouette and the gas check did improve accuracy. If I wasn't already driving them flat out it would allow me to drive my bullets harder. Since I am already driving them flat out it will allow me to soften my alloy more without causing leading. This is good because at the moment my alloy is so hard that even at 200 yards it shatters when it hits steel, which is not ideal for silhouette where you want the bullet to hold together as much as possible after impact.

If it's expansion you want, try to get hold of a mold like the Lyman Devastator. It has a cavity in the nose you could park a truck (lorry to you) in. At the right velocity with the right alloy those things would go off inside a fox like a hand grenade.

Hey Bob, we have trucks too, I drive a little sack truck regular .

That aside, beer can gas checks, how do you make them?

Nath I have shot the Hornady and Speer Lead bullets. They are s'posed to be pure lead, given that they are swaged. They have been shot out of a T/C carbine at velocities from 780fps to 1425fps. These were averages I got when I chrono'ed about 5 diffrent loads. Never had any leading to speak of. In fact 2 patches down the bore left it shiny and clean.

That sounds good.

Nothing gives down range performance like a pure lead bullet that has been paper patched. If this is for a hunting load you only need enough to sight it in and then what you hunt with.
Wrapping them is a motor skill and takes a while to learn. I shoot pure lead in my 30 30 at factory velocities with no problems. Going much over 2200 fps requires a lot of attention to detail but it can be done.

Does that require special molds then?
Pure lead expands good whatever shape on critters and that is what I am interested in yes.

I was going to try H110 and H4227 for top end loads, I can not decide if I want to stick to buying jacketed bullets or stick to cast and try casting my own even.
I don't know how much a near or max charge from the above fills the case, a fire wall of sorts makes me wonder if I could avoid bad leading.

I remember Paco I think using plastic glued to bullet bases!

Thanks for the inputs guy's.

Nath.

Oh, happy hols.

[gundownunder]

Hey Nath, to make beer can gas checks requires a set of check making dies. The only one I know of that makes them commercially to cut drink can checks for plain base bullets is Pat Marlin over on Cast bullet forum, price is round the US$100 mark. There are also some drawings available over there by a couple of people and they could be made for drink can PB checks if you have a few tools in your home workshop.
Basically, what you do is open out a drink can into a flat sheet then use a die to punch .540" disks (for .357 checks) out of the material, which you then run through a forming die to form the cup which gets swaged to the base of any plain base bullet with a sizing die.Viola, plain base gas checked bullets at the rate of 2000 per carton of beer. I'd suggest getting a few days head start on emptying the cans because it only takes a few hours to make several hundred checks and if you empty the cans as you go you might forget what you're cutting and why

[rhead]

For paper patching special molds are not necessary (someone shooting competition will disagree with that and they will be right).

For my 357 mags I got a .356 Lee push through sizer and a .358 push through sizer. I lube the freshly cast bullets with liquid dish washing soap and then rinse them and let them drain. Then I patch them using dampened Meade tracing paper.Yo need to be able to put some stretch on the paper and let it shrink as it dries. The patch should extend beyond the oglive of the bullet but not far enough that it does not make good contact with the lead after the paper dries.

After they are completely dry trim the tails and size them using the .358 sizer. Some people use lube (Paste wax) with good results. I have tried it and get better accuracy without it.

You will get some rejects due to the paper tearing. Re wrap them and re size them. It almost always works the second time.

It takes a while to teach your fingers how to do it but it can be learned. A web search can get you more detailed instructions and a flood of opposing opinions. Most of them will work. This way works well in my rifles and is easy for me to do with what I have. The main thing is for ALL of the paper to come off as the bullet clears the barrel. If any stays on it will alter the bullet's path. They will feed through a Winchester or a Rossi I have no data for a Marlin. They also do well in my revolvers but why bother outside or curiosity.

I get better results using a slow for the caliber powder. I use 2400.

[Nath]

For paper patching special molds are not necessary (someone shooting competition will disagree with that and they will be right).

For my 357 mags I got a .356 Lee push through sizer and a .358 push through sizer. I lube the freshly cast bullets with liquid dish washing soap and then rinse them and let them drain. Then I patch them using dampened Meade tracing paper.Yo need to be able to put some stretch on the paper and let it shrink as it dries. The patch should extend beyond the oglive of the bullet but not far enough that it does not make good contact with the lead after the paper dries.

After they are completely dry trim the tails and size them using the .358 sizer. Some people use lube (Paste wax) with good results. I have tried it and get better accuracy without it.

You will get some rejects due to the paper tearing. Re wrap them and re size them. It almost always works the second time.

It takes a while to teach your fingers how to do it but it can be learned. A web search can get you more detailed instructions and a flood of opposing opinions. Most of them will work. This way works well in my rifles and is easy for me to do with what I have. The main thing is for ALL of the paper to come off as the bullet clears the barrel. If any stays on it will alter the bullet's path. They will feed through a Winchester or a Rossi I have no data for a Marlin. They also do well in my revolvers but why bother outside or curiosity.

I get better results using a slow for the caliber powder. I use 2400.

That is most interesting and thankyou, I will be investigating!

Hey Nath, to make beer can gas checks requires a set of check making dies. The only one I know of that makes them commercially to cut drink can checks for plain base bullets is Pat Marlin over on Cast bullet forum, price is round the US$100 mark. There are also some drawings available over there by a couple of people and they could be made for drink can PB checks if you have a few tools in your home workshop.
Basically, what you do is open out a drink can into a flat sheet then use a die to punch .540" disks (for .357 checks) out of the material, which you then run through a forming die to form the cup which gets swaged to the base of any plain base bullet with a sizing die.Viola, plain base gas checked bullets at the rate of 2000 per carton of beer. I'd suggest getting a few days head start on emptying the cans because it only takes a few hours to make several hundred checks and if you empty the cans as you go you might forget what you're cutting and why

That too is very interesting! Thanks.

N.

[Charles]

You are talking a 357 Mag rifle right? Being a Texas, I think pistols first.

Bear in mind that when fired in a rifle (vis-a-vi a pistol) you will pick up an extra 100 to 400 fps depending on the powder and charge.

A pure lead cast bullet won't be an undoable thing, if you are willing to limit yourself to some low velocities, something just fast enough not to stick the bullet in the barrel, somewhere around 500 to 600 fps. A full wadcutter at that speed would make a crackerjack small game load, but would not feed through the magazine of a levergun. They would need to be singled loaded into the chamber.

A 000 Buckshot (.360") at the same velocity would also work well in the .357 mag rifle singled loaded into the chamber for small game. Coat the buckshot with Lee Liquid Alox and you are good to go.

a gas check will boost the useable velocity of pure lead several hundred fps at least.

Like others said, adding a little tin to the load about a 1-30 mix will make casting easier and booste usable velocity a tad.

A 1-30 (tin to lead) bullet will do just fine plain base to about 800-850 fps and with a gas check to around 1,000 fps. Either of those should be just fine for your British bunny's and foxes.

22 rimfire bullets are not pure lead, but a harder alloy. At one time, I new what it was, but my brain has gone dim on that subject.

[Nath]

Thankyou Charles

I do have another idea, full metal jacket and copper washed are readily available over here.

I wonder if I can make a tool to hollow the noses of such some! Might be an option if the cores are soft-ish! Just a little expansion is all I would need.

N.