1919--1894 range report.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:47 am

175 yards with factory 170gr ammo ..... who needs reloads .......

Oh I can't believe I said that.

Nothing broke on that rifle, no fixin needed.

What are gonna hunt with it?

Joe

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:55 am

Thanks Joe , be hunting deer with her

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:57 am

Yeah I did make it Pitchy.

Nice shooting, I have a soft tender spot for 30/30 myself

My old cross bolt safty trapper use to take crows out to 150yds regular

.

N.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:13 pm

Nath wrote:Yeah I did make it Pitchy.

Nice shooting, I have a soft tender spot for 30/30 myself

My old cross bolt safty trapper use to take crows out to 150yds regular .

N.

With you Nath i`d believe that from a trapper , thanks buddy.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:16 pm

Pitchy wrote:...As ya can see it shoots a couple in high at 50 and 100 yards so it should only be 2-3 in. low at 200.
The more i refresh my memory about the ole 30-30 the more it brings back some good memories.

You might be a mite optimistic with that guess.

My three favorite loads are a Speer 150 grain, my Saeco #316 GC (150 grain), and the Federal PowrShok factory 150 grain. I've worked to develop both handloads to shoot to the same point of impact as the factory load.

As the chart below would indicate (taken from the actual velocities noted above); it's just a hair below 1" high at 100 yards, yet drops 7" by 200. A heavier bullet would have a bit more drop than that.

I've shot all three bullets at ranges from 25 yards to over 400. And my actual experience indicates that the Lee Shooter chart pictured above is pretty accurate for as far as it goes.

Good luck... half the fun is the testing of theories!

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:27 pm

I don`t know what to say Griff, the pictures show what happened.
Buy Federals

I don`t have much ammo left so when i get some more i`ll try again.
I think it`s a bad medicine gun.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:57 pm

Sure hope some don`t think i`m lying about that shot, maybe it`s the 26 in barrel.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:12 pm

Set up a scoped .30-30 so that the Winchester Supreme 150 grain factory load strikes dead on at 200 yards and the trajectory looks like this: +3.3 inches high at 100 yards, +2.8 at 150 yards, 0 at 200 yards, -5.7" at 250 yards, and -14.7" at 300 yards. The point blank range of a .30-30 set up this way is almost 250 yards for deer size animals.

With the standard Winchester Silvertip 170 grain factory load it is probably better to zero the rifle to hit 2.9" high at 100 yards. That way the bullet strikes only 1.8 inches low at 200 yards. So sighted the .30-30 has a MPBR (+/- 3") of 211 yards

http://www.chuckhawks.com/30-30Win.htm

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:19 pm

Pitchy, I looked through this thread, but might have missed it ........ were the cast bullets you used gas checked?

Your rifle is a tack driver.

smokenrust · Post by **smokenrust** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:19 pm

"Sure hope some don`t think I'm lying about that shot, maybe it`s the 26 in barrel"
Pitch, I believe you, I got a 243 that defies the tragectory charts. Sighted in at 200, just put the cross hairs on a deer thats clean across a forty and its down. Haven't touched the scope adjustments in 25 or more years.
Better shut my mouth, don't want nothing bad happenning to that old Sav 99 or the scope.
That 1894 is sure sweet to you.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:21 pm

Bill in Oregon wrote:Pitchy, don't forget that when the .30-30 first came out, none other than the vice president that it was a virtual lazer beam. It still does good work!

That's right. In 1895 the 30-30 was a high speed, flat shooting small bore wonder round compared to black powder cartridges.

Here is what the Chuck Hawk trajectory table says about the 30-30 and zeroing so you can hold dead on out to 200 yards.

.30-30 Win. (170 FP at 2200) (+2.9" at 100 yds) (-1.8" at 200 yds) (211 yds Max Point Blank Range)

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:22 pm

We know you not fooling us P, 26" barrel can make up alot compared to the usual 20" barrels. You maybe getting 200fps or more over a 20" tube.

How do I know this? I read alot! I mean I have not tested it!

N.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:22 pm

Dave wrote:
Bill in Oregon wrote:Pitchy, don't forget that when the .30-30 first came out, none other than the vice president that it was a virtual lazer beam. It still does good work!
That's right. In 1895 the 30-30 was a high speed, flat shooting small bore wonder round compared to black powder cartridges.

Here is what the Chuck Hawk trajectory table says about the 30-30 and zeroing so you can hold dead on out to 200 yards.

.30-30 Win. (170 FP at 2200) (+2.9" at 100 yds) (-1.8" at 200 yds) (211 yds Max Point Blank Range)

Dave check a post back from yours we must of been thinking alike at the same time.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:24 pm

I`m going to say this untill furthur test.
I read on Federals box that if sighted in 1.5 in. high at 100 yards the drop would be 8.4 in.
So considering how blurry the front sight is in the rear sight and the distance to the target there is a good possibility there is shooter error on my part.
Just because the two shots are that close together only prooves that i held the gun the same twice.
I have a few shells left so i`ll take a couple more shots tomorrow and see what happens.
It may well proove that aging eyes should not be shooting at game at that distance with open sights, which i never do anyway.

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:12 pm

Pitchy I belive your a dang good shot, and having a few 26" rifles I belive your dead on with that idea also
as far as blurry eyes go I cant make mine shoot that well

ollogger

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:30 pm

ollogger wrote:Pitchy I belive your a dang good shot, and having a few 26" rifles I belive your dead on with that idea also
as far as blurry eyes go I cant make mine shoot that well

ollogger

Thanks buddy, i`m anxious to shoot a few more through it tomorrow.
No mater where i`m seeing the rifle is dern accurate.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:09 pm

Pitchy, I had my post all written up for several hours before I posted it... Was workin on the pics last nite. Then forgot about it till just before I posted. Didn't read all the interim posts. My post was based on my experience with my 26" heavy barrelled mdl 94. The program keeps tellin me that @ 400 yards I get over 66" of drop with that 125 yard zero. Yet, with my 200 yard setting, I'm usually inside 6" at 400 yards with an 18" hold over.

Like I said, the ballistics generator seems pretty accurate out to about 200 yards, then I don't know. It just doesn't work for me.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:15 pm

Griff wrote:Pitchy, I had my post all written up for several hours before I posted it... Was workin on the pics last nite. Then forgot about it till just before I posted. Didn't read all the interim posts. My post was based on my experience with my 26" heavy barrelled mdl 94. The program keeps tellin me that @ 400 yards I get over 66" of drop with that 125 yard zero. Yet, with my 200 yard setting, I'm usually inside 6" at 400 yards with an 18" hold over.

Like I said, the ballistics generator seems pretty accurate out to about 200 yards, then I don't know. It just doesn't work for me.

No prob bro, i`m wonderin about those two shots myself, tomorrow i`ll aim at the bottom of the black circle as to get a different sight picture.
The sight seemed pretty blurry to me today i even told the wife that i doubt i even hit the cardboard.
But to my surprise when we went and looked there they were 1 1/8th in. apart but high.
We`ll get to the bottom of it tomorrow.

gundownunder · Post by **gundownunder** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:37 pm

Hey Pitchy, that rear sight on your 30-30 looks similar to the rear on my 32-20. It's flat on top but the guy that owned it before me opened the notch up to a larger square notch just like a revolver would normally have and that works wonders with my old eyes. As long as I have my glasses on to see the front sight clearly I can just line it up in the square notch with no blurring and a clear window around the post.
Using cast you would probably need gas checks if you want to push the velocities up there, but if your happy to push them along at 1600 or so you shouldn't need checks. In a 26" barrel you would also want to make sure your bullet lube is up to the task.
I'd spend a little time reading the available information over at cast boolits and also check out some of Glen Fryxell's articles over at LASC. I'd keep working on getting the cast bullets to work, as the 30-30 has a reputation for being an excellent cast bullet shooter.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:26 am

as the 30-30 has a reputation for being an excellent cast bullet shooter.

I`ve always heard the opposite but i`ve not experimented enough with them yet.
It appears the 30-30 was a jacketed round from the git go .
I plan on trying cast bullets more but would be satisfied shooting jacketed bullets too.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:55 am

Well fellers this kinda tells the story, 2 shots aiming at the top of the dot and 2 shots at the bottom.
Pulled the last lower shot right a little

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:13 am

Pitchy that is fine shooting with irons, never mind old eyes

It indeed tells a story.

walks with gun · Post by **walks with gun** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:28 pm

I suppose you'll be so happy with this 94 I should come up and put your other Irons in your extra safe huh. Good shooting.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:38 pm

Thanks Pete, i`m really liking this gun.
WWG, i had to get rid of one too get one so still room in the safe .

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:06 am

Ollogger sent me some of his cast gas checked bullets to try so i loaded up a few and shot them at 50 yards. They were sized at .309 and shot a tight group but over a foot low with a load of 16 grains of 4198.
I`m sure i could adjust the load to bring it up but i`ve decided to stay with jacketed bullets and just ordered a couple hundred 170 grain FN.
He also sent some factory 150 grain jacketed ammo that shot right on as the 170`s.
Thanks bro.

Tristian just pm`ed me and offered to send me some of his cast bullets sized at .311 but as i said i`m going to stick with jacketed.
Thank you sir. for the offer.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:08 am

Pitchy, I'd say you have an unusually accurate 30-30. You have a keeper for sure.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:12 am

KirkD wrote:Pitchy, I'd say you have an unusually accurate 30-30. You have a keeper for sure.

Thanks Kirk, yep there`s something special about it.
My dilemma now is which gun to take deer hunting this fall, i want to shoot one with the Marlin cowboy, the 76 and now this.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:29 pm

I want to work up a load using a 170 grain jacketed bullet and 4198 powder that matches Fed. factory loads.
They show a muzzle vel. of 2200 fps.
A 42nd addition Lyman manul shows a load of 27 grains of 4198 at 2210 fps, that should be close don`t ya think.
That fills the case right up to the shoulder of the case which is nice for safety.
Thoughts?

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:16 pm

Pitchy wrote:My dilemma now is which gun to take deer hunting this fall, i want to shoot one with the Marlin cowboy, the 76 and now this.

I know what that is like for sure. I have that dilemma every fall. This fall, I have to choose between my original 1886 45-70, my 1895 38-72 and my 1873 44-40. At this time, I am heavily leaning toward my 44-40. If I could put in a suggestion for your consideration ...... not many deer are taken nowadays with a '76.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:38 pm

The 76 is at the top of the list.

After further study i`m dropping that load down to 24 grains, 27 was a max load.
In this old 42nd addition he has some pet loads for deer and it was 24 grains of 4198 with the 170 gr. bullet.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:56 pm

I loaded up four more of the cast gas checked bullets with 24 grains of 4198, shot at 50 yards.
Lower left one was my fault and the X marked one was from a jacketed bullet.
Those shot pretty good.

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:19 pm

Pitchy wrote: Just because the two shots are that close together only prooves that i held the gun the same twice.

that's what it's all about. just keep holdin' that rifle like you did.
no error in that.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:01 pm

Pitchy, that three-shot gas checked bullet group looks very promising indeed.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:09 pm

Yes it is a good bullet, someone with better eys would of put them in one hole. I was shooting out of the garage window and the light was poor.
The first group i shot with a lighter load put two in the same hole and the third about half inch away.
I`m going to use jacketed bullets though as it`s cheaper compared to buying mold, gas checks and sizer luber die.
Great gun, really like this old fanny burp gun.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:58 am

Got my Hornady 170 jacketed FN bullets today, loaded four at 24 grains of 4198 and kinda scatered and elevation is poa.
Loaded two more at 25 grains and they were a little higher.
Those factory loads must be pretty hot because they shot a good inch higher.
Max load is 27 grains but i may stay at 25.
Shooting done at 50 yards.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:15 pm

Went out and shot a factory load and put it right between the last two holes that were 25 grains of 4198.
Seeing clearer today .
Think that load will be good.

walks with gun · Post by **walks with gun** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:49 pm

One nice thing with those long thin barrels is there a little easier to bend to get on target.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:10 pm

walks with gun wrote:One nice thing with those long thin barrels is there a little easier to bend to get on target.

See what i have to put up with

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:30 pm

As for seeing the target/sigts, I've noticed my vision is not as good when I drink caffeine. YMMV, but it makes a noticable difference for me. I've about weaned myself off of it.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:44 pm

Malamute wrote:As for seeing the target/sigts, I've noticed my vision is not as good when I drink caffeine. YMMV, but it makes a noticable difference for me. I've about weaned myself off of it.

No coffee for me but do drink a lot of soda.

Les Staley · Post by **Les Staley** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:13 pm

Pitchy, here's something else to try.. cut out some good black targets out of cardboard... (spray paint 'em with black paint) You will see them clearer than what you're shooting at... see if it doesn't help a little...should give your eye something to focus on.. Les

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:40 pm

Your doing good with that old rifle & theres a reason i dont post pixs. of my shooting

ollogger

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:34 pm

Pitchy wrote:Those factory loads must be pretty hot because they shot a good inch higher.

high poi usually means slower projectiles, especially in a nice long barrel like that.

got any imr 4895? i kinda like that in 30wcfs.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:37 pm

Les Staley wrote:Pitchy, here's something else to try.. cut out some good black targets out of cardboard... (spray paint 'em with black paint) You will see them clearer than what you're shooting at... see if it doesn't help a little...should give your eye something to focus on.. Les

Yep - a darker aiming point makes a BIG difference to me. I normally use black paint and a scrap of plastic with a hole in it as a 'stencil', though of late, I use fluoro-orange and that way I can see bullet holes even in the rare instance I hit the target center.

In a pinch, I've poked a small hole in the cardboard, and stuck a wad of clover or a leaf or a stick in the hole; pretty soon it falls out, but it gets me started with an easy to see aiming point.