Win 94 360DW caliber test hunts

[86er]

I bought my sons a Win 94 for their birthday(s). These are the AE models originally in 357 but converted to 360DW. The rifle is short (16" bbl) but relatively heavy and with 38 SPL or even 357 Mag the recoil and noise levels are very low. The gun has three safety systems, the crossbolt, hammer and lever safeties. For young kids this is a good thing because they can load and unload with the crossbolt "ON" and without engaging the lever safety. When shooting they must be deliberate to cock the hammer, remove the crossbolt and engage the lever safety. The rifle is very accurate and both of my boys shoot is well with both the receiver peep sights and the scout scope. We've not shot any animals with it but before they did I wanted to make sure it was up to the task. The load that Grizzly Cartridge provided is a 180 grain JHP that gets 1912 fps average from this rifle. The question was whether the bullet would perform properly at that muzzle velocity, and then to what range. Also, the actual trajectory was to be determined instead of relying on paper ballistics. First, I sighted in the scout scope to be dead on at 100 yards. Surprisingly, the groups were 1.5" or less with 3 shots slow fire at 100 yds. Often the firsts two shots will touch and then as the rifle is fired the group will open up somewhat. Next, the actual ballistics at 50 yds were determined to be 1.25" high, 2.5" low at 125 yards and 5.75" low at 150 yds. I intended to cut off the shot distance on game at 125 yards anyway so this proved a very useful trajectory. Next, I needed to find a couple of deer. I headed down to my ranch where the deer season is still open and the limit is 2 bucks and 2 does. Enroute, I had an appointment at JOSHUA CREEK RANCH in Boerne, TX to do an editorial on their bird hunting operation. The bird hunting was great and I will report on it seperately, but they also offer axis deer and whitetail deer hunts. There are free range axis and other exotics throughout much of Hill Country and Joshua Creek Ranch has an abundance of them. When I told the owners my quest to try the rifle/cartridge combo they offered to let me assist with the axis deer management. If you are interested in a huge axis buck hunt and outstanding food and accomodations I recommend Joshua Creek Ranch. They only shoot mature bucks that are at least 32" in main beam length. May-July is the best time for a hard-horned buck and several upper 30" axis are taken on this ranch each year including a 38" last year. Anyway, I saw no less than 50 axis deer and 30 whitetail deer in the first half hour of hunting. A quiet stalk down a dirt trail lead my guide Dave and I to a little pine thicket. Bedded in the sunshine under a tree was a young doe. There was a lot of brush on the ground blocking the vitals but since it about 90 yards away I was confident in threading the bullet through a 3" triangular opening. At the shot several other axis in the background ran away but we did not see the target deer do anything. Once we approached we saw the deer was quite dead. The bullet had hit on the point of the shoulder and travelled rearward, exiting under the spine about 14" back on the opposite side. So far so good. I then tried another load that may interest levergunners although I used my Remington 81. A 300 Savage loaded with 170 grain Nosler Partitions at 2600 fps easily knocked down a deer when it punched through the lungs and continued north towards Oklahoma for all I know. Just one hour after leaving Joshua Creek Ranch I arrived at my friends house. Nobody was home but there was about 40 minutes of light left so I quickly walked back to the deer blind. A big buck came out 210 yards from me but the little 360 DW rifle is not up to that range due to the trajectory and power. Three little does came in to less than 100 yards but I could see they were small, late birth does from this year. Another buck came in behind me just as the sun was creating an orange band between the earth and sky. This buck had antlers but was young and needs a few more years. As I began to pack up I noticed a little movement. Very quickly a deer moved into view and stood broadside right at 100 yards. I looked through the scout scope on 6X but could not see through it as the sunset glare made a half-halo in the scope. I reached up and turned the power ring down to 2X and suddenly the deer appeared in the lens. I could tell it was a buck, but it was not big and did not have antlers. I guessed it to be a button buck or maybe have little spikes I couldnt see clearly - but either way he'd feed someone and give my bullet something to do. At the shot the buck jumped and lurched forward. He ran four long strides with his head down and fell in the field causing a puff of dust from the dry ground. This bullet had struck right where I aimed, in the center of the shoulder. The exit hole is a little bigger than a dime and a little smaller than a penny. Later that afternoon I once again looked for a deer. This time a big old doe strolled in and stood around 125 yards facing me. The head on shot rocked her back on her rear hoofs, she then dropped her head and rolled completely over twice to her left and became still. What appeared to be a head-on shot must have been slightly quartering because the bullet entered the chest and took the top of the heart, travelled through the spleen and some small intestine and then exited just behind the last rib on the opposite side, with around 20" of penetration. Conclusion - this rifle/cartridge combo is a keeper for short range deer sized game!

[JerryB]

Joe, I think you found a good combination.

[Ji in Hawaii]

Aloha Joe, What does it take to get 357 chambered 94AE action to accept the 360DW? Did you have to lengthen the chamber? Any mods to the carrier? I recall Tycer making changes to his 94AE Trapper to work with 360DW ammo but not sure what exactly he did.
Thanks you, and congratulations to you, and your boys.

[86er]

We best ask Tycer, he did it for me...

[Marlin32]

If I remember correctly, the 360DW was made from 357 Maximum brass??
So you are squeezing a bit more veloicty out of a 357 rifle.
I used a 357 Marlin for years on deer here in Nebraska, but as I have mentioned before, the ballistic geniuses at the NGPC decided rifles needed at least 900ft-lbs of energy at 100 yds to be legal. (although, I can take the ruger revolver with a 6" barrel and less velocity and energy and kill one)

I have mentioned that on this forum and I do belive there are maybe some cartridges loaded that may make that 900ft-lb level.

I remember looking at the 360DW as I was trying to do just that with it. But never went any further, bought a 307win instead.

I found the 180grain Federal bullet in the 357 more than adequate on deer at close range. Which worked well for where I was hunting at the time. The 360DW might give me a few more yards, but not surprised in the least on 86'er's findings.

What interests me is the free range exotics on the ranch!! That is interesting.

[86er]

Actually, you cannot trim down 357 Max brass to use in 360 because it is too thick. It will not work properly. I am getting A LOT more velocity than the 357 Mag. With a full power 180 grain 357 Magnum I am getting 1702 fps average out of this rifle. At THE SAME PRESSURE (around 35K psi) I get 1912 fps from the 360DW. The difference on game is enough to be noticable, with deeper penetration and more drastic wounds. The trajectory extends the range a few yards, not a lot but enough to help. Also, interestingly my boys cannot tell the difference in recoil or noise from 357 to 360 (and most adults that have shot my sons rifle cant tell either). Marlin32 - PM sent about JCR.

[Marlin32]

What brass or case is used then. I thought at one time there was headstamped 360DW stuff out there?

This has renewed my interest, have a friend who is not much of a hunter, but his boy (about 11-12) is really interested in it and it is going to fall on to me to get him in the game. And happy to do it. My grandson only three.

357 with blend of little recoil, noise etc (especially with available 38special loads for practice) and sufficient firepower to kill deer at close range , I think is a decent choice for youths. At least in my woods. Open plains, well might have to think of something else. But have a 243 and I wouldn't blink at getting him a BLR in 7mm-08 either.

The conversion would add a bit more potential and potentcy. Interesting.

[86er]

Starline has 360DW brass available. Mine is all properly headstamped brass.

[pricedo]

Just like when mom took me to see Bambi all over again.

Should at least wait till they're weaned before shootin 'em.

[Tycer]

Glad you and the boys are enjoying that gun!

[Griff]

Very nice Joe. I'd thought about converting a mdl 94 to .357 Max. many, many years ago, but got talked out of it. Is the '92 action too short to cycle the 360DW?

[Tycer]

Very nice Joe. I'd thought about converting a mdl 94 to .357 Max. many, many years ago, but got talked out of it. Is the '92 action too short to cycle the 360DW?

I think the 357 is about as long as the 92 action will cycle. The 94 has plenty of room, it's only challenge is the skinny cartridge.

[Tycer]

Actually the 454 Casull and the 360 Dan Wesson are about the same oal. The 360 should work.

[Griff]

Actually the 454 Casull and the 360 Dan Wesson are about the same oal. The 360 should work.

Hmmmm...