"The Story" on Wolves

[Rusty]

As I was headed back to the barn today after a day on the road I heard a story on the local NPR about wolves as told by the wildlife biologist that was in charges of the project. I know the topic has come up quite a bit here of late and thought y'all might like to hear it:

http://thestory.org/archive/The_Story_1912.mp3/view

[2571]

Why do they hunt kids @ bus stops?

Thanks -- listened to whole thing & may try to find the book

[Old Ironsights]

Why do they hunt kids @ bus stops?

Thanks -- listened to whole thing & may try to find the book

'Coz there's no guns and the lambs are afraid to run from the "protection" that "school" tells them they get from the school "authorities"...

[Griff]

Interesting.

[Mac in Mo]

I noticed that when the interviewer said that he thought that the wolves were still on the endangered list, Mr. Niemeyer's response was cut short before he could address that part of the question.


Kevin

[Buck Elliott]

This is NOT "The Story" on wolves, but rather, A (very biased , one-sided) "Story" about the introduction of Canadian Grey Wolves into the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem.. Mr. Niemeyer was the man chosen to trap and oversee transport of those wolves into the US.. When it comes to telling the story of wolf "re-introduction," if Niemeyer's lips are moving -- or are about to be -- he is lying through his teeth!

While it might be argued that occasional wolves were crossing southward into Montana, Idaho and Washington, the USFWS leadership took it upon themselves to 'accellerate" and radicalize the process, planting the invaders on top of biologically-stable populations of our native wolves, which resulted in either assimilation of the natives, or more often, extirpation by the larger, more aggressive and voracious intruders..

In order to legitimize the importation of Canadian wolves, USFWS had to officially deny the existence of native wolves in and around Yellowstone Park.. That was accomplished by simply saying they were no longer there, and denying any reports of native animals.. They went so far as to call many of us Liars, and to threaten legal (and extra-legal ) actions against anyone who spoke up.. It was broadly hinted that permits to outfit on National Forest and National Park lands might be denied, and that outfitters could be prosecuted, on a number of trumped-up charges..

Public Information" meetings were held in communities surrounding the Park, where the plan was laid out for us, and presented as a "done deal.." Contrary comments and concerns were brushed aside by officials from USFWS, USFS, and the NPS.. Some of us were warned to shut up, and were threatened with ejection from the meetings.

Ultimately, USFWS operatives STOLE $60,000,000 (in round figures) from Pittman-Robertson funds, which come from the 11% excise tax on sporting arms and ammunition, and which are designated for distribution to the various states, for the benefit of game animals and their habitat.. That money was now to be used -- illegally -- to introduce large numbers of an Apex Predator species among the game populations of the Mountain West... A predatoer that was to be placed under federal protection, as an "endangered species" and could not be hunted or controlled for a number of years.. Limits were placed on the number to which wolves would be allowed to grow, before the endangered tag could be lifted.. In almost every case, those numbers were reached and exceeded by 2002, while actual numbers have climbed well beyond the 100 to 150 proposed and agreed to by the states iinvolved and by the slavering "environmentalists," who were just anxious for an auspicious beginning.. Today's actual numbers are unknown, with official estimates ranging from 700 or so in both ID and MT, with somewhat fewer outside the Park in WY, to well over 4000 total in the 3 states.. Truth is: USFWS only counts packs that contain collared wolves, and we know from actual sightings that many packs exist, which contain NO collared wolves.. the new wolves have proved themselves to be very proficient killers, and unlike our lamented native wolves, engage in wholesale frenzy killing, killing and/or maiming, then chasing down the next fleeing animal, leaving most or all of many carcasses untouched and unconsumed.. Wolf depredations in Yellowstone have been so severe and complete, that the wolves are now forced to look elsewhere for prey, and packs are on the move, right now, into territories once governed by other wolves, or they are leaving the Park, and preying on game and livestock outside the Park boundaries.. Wyoming ranchers have been hit, and a couple years ago, I had wolves chasing my horses, several times, as they passed through the property on their way down to the calving pasture of a big rancher, located at the base of the mountain.. Those cowboys were consistently mum on the subject of calf losses, under orders from their bosses..

Montana has fared less well at the teeth and claws of the wolves, while central and northern Idaho has been hit the hardest, with depradation losses skyrocketing, and numerous wolf encouters/incidents reported by Idaho residents.. A woman I know, in the Stanley area, was held under seige in her own home by wolves, just last week.. Her husband was away on a job, and she was surrounded by a pack of wolves that would not leave.. Finally, we were able to get a man over there, who "took care of" the situation, and the woman is now armed and resolute, and is determined that the incident will not be repeated..

Ranchers in the Salmon area have been hard hit by marauding wolves, losing numerous sheep and cattle.. Ranching, as a family business, runs on the slimmest of margins, as it is, and the extra losses of cows and calves could be devestating to a small operator.. These are also the folks who can no longer send their kids out to the bus stop, but must accompany them, with guns at the ready, so they don't lose a CHILD to the wolves..!

Some people think it is wonderful that they are seeing so many more elk and deer, closer to the small towns in Montana and Idaho, without realizing that those animals have been driven from their normal habitat by the presence, and the activities of ravenous wolves..

What Niemeyer neglects to say, in his little propoganda diatribe, is that the wolves were planted where they were as part of a larger plan, coming under the headings of Agenda 21 and the Wildlands Project, both UN backed schemes to eliminate large ungulates from their historic ranges, to effectively deplete their numbers, so that hunting -- and by extension, firearms -- can be elimnated, and vast areas of the country can become home to vicious predators, instead.. Farming and ranching are to be done away with, in the "wild country" and human presence is to be eliminated and obliterated.. People will be transported to communal population centers, where public transportation will fill all their daily needs for movement.. No more private vehicles, no more need for nasty guns, no more freedom. NO MORE LIBERTY...!!!!!

I, for one, will NOT live under such tyranny!

[WyoShooter]

Well said Buck.

[earlmck]

Seems like you pretty well nailed her, Buck.

[Buck Elliott]

I have been in this fight since the early 90s, as a hunter, guide, outfitter and citizen..

I will not give up my arms to such as those who would destroy Liberty...

For more background, Google "Agenda 21" or "Wildlands Project."

I don't mean to turn this into a political thread, but it is crucial to our continued enjoyment of our firearms, and our hunting heritage, in the very near future..

[Rusty]

Thanks Buck, I knew there was another side to the story. Not living in that part of the country we don't hear much about wolf problems down here. I know one thing, if the Feds have anything to do with it the whole situation will get screwed up before things are over.

[Buck Elliott]

Thanks Rusty... The problem is, this all Started with the Feds, and has been fatally screwed up from the beginning.. They are using wolves as pawns, and wolf-mania as their weapon, to drive us from these mountains.. And never forget: this is just a beginning..! Wolves and federal regulations are coming to a field or forest or riverbank near YOU...

The fight is on, and it is a battle for Freedom such as you have never yet seen..!

Wolves are tools, easily applied to emotionally-insecure citizens... But they are only one arrow in the quiver of the new overlords...

[BigSky56]

Buck they are using lynx, wolverine & grizzly bears to shut down logging and access in NF going to a FS meeting that USF&G is telling the FS to close 150 more miles of roads on the kootenai so the grizzlies will be protected from people. It never ends. danny

[Mike D.]

So crammed with "timely" ads that I could not follow it sanely. Far worse than network TV.

[Buck Elliott]

It actually started here with the grizzly bear, many years ago, but they couldn't attach quite as much sentimentality to the big bruins.. They are making noises here now, about lynx and wolverines.. Neither animal is exactly plentiful, but both are very secretive and hard to count..

The wolf was made to order for their lock-out campaign.. It has a long history of metaphysical attraction, and exudes mystery and "spirituality" of a Pagan sort..

Notice that the wolf was dumped right in the middle of prime grizz habitat, and is now stealing food from the great bears, and has been known to kill them directly, in pack formation..

Fortunately, they are relatively easy to kill, when they can be found.. It doesn't take much to put one down and out... Getting within range is the biggest chore, without becoming the hunted, yourself...

[JerryB]

Thanks Buck, from the reading that I have done it all fits in with the liberals and dogooders that are to dumb ,or educated, to know what it will cost us if we lose this fight.
I still think 'blue helmets' will make good targets.

[Griff]

Timing is everything. I received the following email from friend in Thailand just this past Sunday. I really had no IDEA how huge these Canadian wolves got.

You see how close to civilization they are? Looking down on the valley of people in the last picture. Just a few of the wolves killed this year with the Idaho wolf tag. Wish I could show you a few hundred more pictures. It is just amazing how big they are. Deer, elk, and livestock killing machines. The big question you have to ask yourself is why? These massive wolves are not the native wolf that lived in our area 100 years ago. There was a reason these things where exterminated nationwide. They sure do look cuddly and cute. I wonder if our city dwelling tree hugger society that never has left a city really understands the impact of these killing machines. I wonder if a T-Rex was somewhere to be had that they would want to put them back in the wild.
p.s. it’s just a matter of time before one of our granola loving green peace hikers goes out on a hike and runs into a pack of these killers and becomes part of the food chain. If you are going into the Blues, Cascades, or up above Spokane hiking, game scouting, mushroom hunting, or something else you better start carrying a side arm. Can you even imagine being out by yourself and having 8 to 12 of these monsters surround you! Think about what kind of appetite a dozen of these must have and remember they are the only predator in our nation that kills for fun along with for food. The amount of animals they take are just a partial portion of what they need to eat. When elk are calving they will kill the calves just for fun after they have had all they can eat and leave the rest to rot.

With the following pictures attached:

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[Buck Elliott]

Thanks for posting those photos.. I can't seem to do it from my phone..

Those of you who are on Faceboook can check out the battle on "Anti-Wolf America #1" and "Wolf Watch 2" to follow the progress.. The wolf lovers are a strange bunch, to say the least, and wolf worship has become as much of a threat as radical Islam...

[JerryB]

Kinda makes me sick to think of why they are here now. Reckon it would be rough picking in a huckleberry patch, have to watch all the time

[Buck Elliott]

If they take you down, they will eat you alive.. Not something you want to have to deal with...

[Birdman]

I just can't trust the do gooders and tree huggers. They totally depend on the money put into the system by hunters and fishermen through our taxes (P-R) and then they want to determine how it's spent. Of course our state and federal wildlife departments are to busy sucking up to their side while ignoring those of us who are spending the money and paying the taxes. Buck, you have hit the nail right on the head.

[RustyJr]

Are they micro-chipping these wolves?


RustyJr

[Larsen E. Whipsnade]

Buck, being from the East I have no experience with wolves, outside of a zoo. I have no doubt that they can decimate wildlife and domestic stock, but you make it sound like they are very dangerous to people, as well. I can certainly see how they could be, if they wanted to, but I keep reading that "there is no documented instance of a healthy wolf attacking a person" and that the fear of wolves is a "culturally ingrained predjudice". I've always had my doubts about that, and after looking at the size of the animals in these pics, even more so! Do you know of any instances where a human was attacked? Not being argumentative, just wondering.

[shooter]

Buck, being from the East I have no experience with wolves, outside of a zoo. I have no doubt that they can decimate wildlife and domestic stock, but you make it sound like they are very dangerous to people, as well. I can certainly see how they could be, if they wanted to, but I keep reading that "there is no documented instance of a healthy wolf attacking a person" and that the fear of wolves is a "culturally ingrained predjudice". I've always had my doubts about that, and after looking at the size of the animals in these pics, even more so! Do you know of any instances where a human was attacked? Not being argumentative, just wondering.

The details are not fresh on my brain, but I remember a couple of instances of attacks up north, last year I believe. One was a woman out jogging. Can't remember the details on the other. The tree huggers will put out all kinds of misinformation to further their cause, even if it gets people hurt. Wolves are apex predators, and there's nothing they won't attack, and pretty much nothing they can't kill as a pack.

[Buck Elliott]

Go to the facebook pages I cited, and you can find all the references to wolf attacks you would ever want. A schoolteacher in Alaska was killed and eaten by wolves while out walking.. A woman who was hunting elk in northern Idaho (archery tackle) was attacked this past Fall by a lone wolf, and managed to drop her bow and pull her .44 mag and end the encounter at about 10 feet.. Another Idaho hunter was surrounded by a small pack, and was finally able to get away, after emptying two magazines from his .45 auto. Both hunters were extremely fortunate to be able to get away, relatively unharmed.. There are numerous other incidents on file; some recent, and others more historical.. My own great grandfather told of being surrounded by wolves a couple times, and of being followed by them, when he was herding sheep, as a boy, in northern Utah, and of having to use his Winchester to kill several and drive the rest off...

The story that they won't attack humans is just that: a story, told and retold by the wolf worshipers, most of whom have never seen a wild wolf, close-up and personal..

Rusty, they haven't chipped any wolves that I know of, but prefer to use collars instead.. Most of the collars are set up for traditional radio telemetry, while fewer are equipped with GPS telemetry. Collars are expensive, and there is no orderly dispersal of collars among the released wolves or their offspring.. Strangely, the USFWS refuses to acknowledge wolf packs, where at least one wolf isn't collared..

Bottom line, as was reported from this week's meetings in northern Idaho, neither the USFWS nor the ID F&G has any real idea as to the actual number of wolves on the loose in that state.. Estimates range from 1,000 to 2,000 plus, and perhaps more, in a state that agreed to harbor 10 breeding pair, or a maximum of 150 wolves, before the Endangered listing was to be removed, and any surplus wolves could be taken.. Montana is in a very similar situation, while Wyoming seems to be less effected, for the time being, largely because of geographical differences, but we still have problems, just not to the extent experienced, so far, in Idaho..

Remember that Idaho doesn't only have errant Yellowstone wolves to deal with, but a wholesale dump of wolves into the Frank Church/River of no Return Wilderness, and the Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness..

Now, the states of Washington and Oregon are on the brink of the same predations seen in Idaho, with wolves overrunnimg Wallowa County, and filtering up through the Blue Mountains into SE Washington, around Walla Walla. The Imnaha pack in the Wallowa Valley have already killed numrous cows and calves. And one of their number, the infamous OR-7, has made the treck diagonally across Oregon, into northern California..

[Larsen E. Whipsnade]

Thanks for the info. I always had doubts about that "won't attack humans" story. That said, much like a grizzly, I do think I'd like to see one in the wild - from a safe distance - and definitely not from the inside!

[Rafe Covington]

Well said Buck, like you said the re-introduction of wolves was a long range plan to ban hunting and guns. Very well said, THANKS.

Rafe

[Meeteetse]

Thanks for posting Buck. Growing up in Wyoming and watching the changes that have come to the "Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem" (50 or 100 miles all around Yellowstone) is sickening. The bias in the media and the demonizing of ranchers and others is so wide spread that no one understands the real problem. It is easy to understand how the tree-huggers can sell this idea. After all, the wolf is just a big dog that needs a home. I hope more people see the pictures of the wolves, because most folks think they are just a little bigger than a coyote. Now that I live in Texas, (mistake), I have been amazed at how naive Texans are on issues like this.

A long time ago, my uncle (rancher in central WY) told me that the eco-frieks would try to take the entire state of Wyoming away from the residents. He said it would be easy because no one lived there and the people in the east and west didn't care especially if the turned Wyoming into a giant national park. I always thought he was kidding, but I was wrong.

Spent some time north of Dubois before the wolves were released with friends trying to prove native wolves existed. Saw the tracks and heard the howls, but no one believed it. The pictures posted in this thread are a real eye opener for me. When the wolves were first introduced I saw some of them and they were no where near the size of the wolves in those pictures. Obviously they have adapted to their new habitat, at the expense of the elk, deer and livestock populations. Hate to say it, but perhaps the best thing that could happen would be for a few eco-hikers, wearing bells of course, to get eaten. Naw, it would never make the evening news.

Keep standing up Buck. There are more of us out here than you might think.

[El Chivo]

Griff maybe you can make wolf-hugging a national pastime