Held a piece of history this weekend...
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Held a piece of history this weekend...
I saw the neatest thing I have EVER seen at the Gun Show on Saturday.
I was walking around the tables, looking for old Winchesters and SAA’s when I ran across a table that had what appeared to be a 1st Gen Cavalry Model. The finish was immaculate and it I had obviously never been fired.
Based on the condition of the gun, my first guess was a new piece from Colt, but the bluing was outstanding and the overall level of craftsmanship exceeded anything I have seen for quite a while.
I asked to examine the gun, and an elderly gentleman offered to pick it up for me and asked that I be very careful with it.
As I was looking the gun over, the THREE DIGIT serial number caught my eye and got my heart racing.
The story goes like this –
This revolver was acquired in N Dakota at a museum liquidation by a multimillionaire that was also a gun nut. He and his wife were having dinner in a small restaurant across the street when she noticed the liquidation sign for the museum. They walked over to the museum where he proceeded to buy all the Winchesters and Colts they had and shipped them home.
The gentleman I spoke with had acquired the gun from this man back in the early 60’s and he had it in is safe since that time.
He contacted Colt to make an inquiry about the gun and it’s history.
The letter he received from Colt states this gun came from the second crate of SAA’s ever produced by Colt. It was built in 1873 and the crate was slated for delivery to General George Custer before his trip to Little Big Horn. According to Colt, the crate never shipped as the military did not have enough ammunition to stock the shipment, so it stayed put. They do not know how it got to the museum, and many theories abound, but the history is there.
Needless to say, I was grinning all day…
I have asked if I can come to the next show with a camera to get some really good pictures, which he had no problem with.
Now, how cool is that?
Here is a bad phone pic –
I was walking around the tables, looking for old Winchesters and SAA’s when I ran across a table that had what appeared to be a 1st Gen Cavalry Model. The finish was immaculate and it I had obviously never been fired.
Based on the condition of the gun, my first guess was a new piece from Colt, but the bluing was outstanding and the overall level of craftsmanship exceeded anything I have seen for quite a while.
I asked to examine the gun, and an elderly gentleman offered to pick it up for me and asked that I be very careful with it.
As I was looking the gun over, the THREE DIGIT serial number caught my eye and got my heart racing.
The story goes like this –
This revolver was acquired in N Dakota at a museum liquidation by a multimillionaire that was also a gun nut. He and his wife were having dinner in a small restaurant across the street when she noticed the liquidation sign for the museum. They walked over to the museum where he proceeded to buy all the Winchesters and Colts they had and shipped them home.
The gentleman I spoke with had acquired the gun from this man back in the early 60’s and he had it in is safe since that time.
He contacted Colt to make an inquiry about the gun and it’s history.
The letter he received from Colt states this gun came from the second crate of SAA’s ever produced by Colt. It was built in 1873 and the crate was slated for delivery to General George Custer before his trip to Little Big Horn. According to Colt, the crate never shipped as the military did not have enough ammunition to stock the shipment, so it stayed put. They do not know how it got to the museum, and many theories abound, but the history is there.
Needless to say, I was grinning all day…
I have asked if I can come to the next show with a camera to get some really good pictures, which he had no problem with.
Now, how cool is that?
Here is a bad phone pic –
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"Spend so much time improving yourself that you have no time to criticize others." -Unknown
Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
Not that it matters, but the Blue Book value on this gun (at 90%) was $140,000.00!!!
At 100%, which this was, I would estimate at least $225,000, if it was for sale, which it wasn't...
At 100%, which this was, I would estimate at least $225,000, if it was for sale, which it wasn't...
"Spend so much time improving yourself that you have no time to criticize others." -Unknown
- J Miller
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Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
Nice pistola. I'd have it to the range in a heartbeat.
Joe
Joe
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Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
Wow! I've seen and handled a number that were very nice/original, but none quite 100% with that provenance!
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Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
Now that IS cool. I am surprised that he let you touch it and further that it's sitting in a gun show!
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OCS, 120th MP Battalion, MSSG
MOLON LABE!
Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
Yep that one pegs out the cool meter for sure.
Three digits and unfired.
Three digits and unfired.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
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It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
no, that's a good phone pic - what a beauty
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Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
Wow!
Whatever you do always give 100%........... unless you are donating blood.
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Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
"I am surprised that he let you touch it and further that it's sitting in a gun show!"
That's what I 'wuz' thinking about too....
That's what I 'wuz' thinking about too....
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are just about done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
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Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
I maybe the "bummer" here, so.........I've heard every story there is concerning old Winchesters & Colts. But stories are just that.......stories.
#1) If the seller knew in his heart that the gun was "right", he would have never let anyone handle it.
#2) If the seller knew in his heart that the gun was "right", it would not be at a gunshow, it would be a Julia's, Rock Island Arsenal, etc. with massive advertisment.
#3.) If the seller knew in his heart the gun was "right", he would have a letter from John Kopec, as it makes a lot of sense to spend $500 -$1000 for a letter for a $300,000 gun that the gun would bring....if it was "right". I really don't think a gun like that would be at ANY gunshow.
I recently had my hands on a Henry Nettleton inspected SAA and the gun was a 90% specimen worth maybe $35-50 g's easily. I got my magnifiey glass out and saw that certain numbers and inspection marks were engraved---not stamped. Colors were not right, etc.
Rememeber one thing, these calvary Colts have been very collectable since the 1930's and $$$$ brings out the worst in people.
Just today I had my hands on an 1894 Winchester serial number 928 which I could have had for under 2 g's--a joke. Upon further inspection, I noticed the barrel had been "stretched", relined and basically "gone over real good.----good but who knows, was it really # 928 or a junker that was buffed and reengraved? I handed it back with a silent laugh
#1) If the seller knew in his heart that the gun was "right", he would have never let anyone handle it.
#2) If the seller knew in his heart that the gun was "right", it would not be at a gunshow, it would be a Julia's, Rock Island Arsenal, etc. with massive advertisment.
#3.) If the seller knew in his heart the gun was "right", he would have a letter from John Kopec, as it makes a lot of sense to spend $500 -$1000 for a letter for a $300,000 gun that the gun would bring....if it was "right". I really don't think a gun like that would be at ANY gunshow.
I recently had my hands on a Henry Nettleton inspected SAA and the gun was a 90% specimen worth maybe $35-50 g's easily. I got my magnifiey glass out and saw that certain numbers and inspection marks were engraved---not stamped. Colors were not right, etc.
Rememeber one thing, these calvary Colts have been very collectable since the 1930's and $$$$ brings out the worst in people.
Just today I had my hands on an 1894 Winchester serial number 928 which I could have had for under 2 g's--a joke. Upon further inspection, I noticed the barrel had been "stretched", relined and basically "gone over real good.----good but who knows, was it really # 928 or a junker that was buffed and reengraved? I handed it back with a silent laugh
Last edited by Sixgun on Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
IF it's worth $225,000, I'd sell it, pay my house and other debts off, and maybe have enough left over for a Barrett 20mm, or a Turnbull Levergun . . . or both . . .J Miller wrote:Nice pistola. I'd have it to the range in a heartbeat.
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Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
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Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
Sixgun: BINGO!
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are just about done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Grand Poo Bah WA F.E.S.
In real life may you be the bad butt that you claim to be on social media.
Grand Poo Bah WA F.E.S.
In real life may you be the bad butt that you claim to be on social media.
Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
Buy the gun, not the story.
The majority of the 755 revolvers issued to the 7th Cavalry where from Lot 5, serial number range 4500-5504, and some came from Lot 6, serial number range 5505-6516. The Colt letter would only tell them that the revolvers were shipped to the US Government Inspector, and how many guns were in the shipment. The Colts sent to Fort Lincoln for the 7th were shipped from Rock Island Arsenal, not from Colt. Did you happen to get any pictures of the cartouche? The "Custer Colt's" are the most counterfeited of all the martial Colts.
Info from; Colt Cavalry & Artillery Revolvers... A Continuing Study
John A. Kopec and H. Sterling Fenn.
The majority of the 755 revolvers issued to the 7th Cavalry where from Lot 5, serial number range 4500-5504, and some came from Lot 6, serial number range 5505-6516. The Colt letter would only tell them that the revolvers were shipped to the US Government Inspector, and how many guns were in the shipment. The Colts sent to Fort Lincoln for the 7th were shipped from Rock Island Arsenal, not from Colt. Did you happen to get any pictures of the cartouche? The "Custer Colt's" are the most counterfeited of all the martial Colts.
Info from; Colt Cavalry & Artillery Revolvers... A Continuing Study
John A. Kopec and H. Sterling Fenn.
Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow.
End the cycle of hatred, don't give them a tomorrow.
End the cycle of hatred, don't give them a tomorrow.
Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
Sorry Jack, I was writing mine as you were posting. Excellent info as always my friend.
Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow.
End the cycle of hatred, don't give them a tomorrow.
End the cycle of hatred, don't give them a tomorrow.
Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
I had some of these same thoughts--I posted recently here or elsewhere--about seeing at a gun show a Pre War 1892 Trapper that appeared 99.5...the missing .5 being only one very (very) slight gun safe or rack marring-perhaps from this show. Upon as close an inspection I could give it in that environment, it truly did not appear to be refinished in any way. Yes, I know some restorers--such as Turnbull--are very good. This looked beyond good. While the vendor--a non Win or lever guy--was not asking pennies ($4k) but IF real, I've seen lessers easily command $10-20k, without any other special provenance (such as this SAA purports). My thought further was would such a rarey--genuine Pre War 92 (and 94) 14-16" Trappers being among the very most precious regular production Wins--in such very unique condition, be at "just" a gun show being handled by the likes of me and not at the Cody Museum or some such.Sixgun wrote:I maybe the "bummer" here, so.........I've heard every story there is concerning old Winchesters & Colts. But stories are just that.......stories.
#1) If the seller knew in his heart that the gun was "right", he would have never let anyone handle it.
#2) If the seller knew in his heart that the gun was "right", it would not be at a gunshow, it would be a Julia's, Rock Island Arsenal, etc. with massive advertisment.
#3.) If the seller knew in his heart the gun was "right", he would have a letter from John Kopec, as it makes a lot of sense to spend $500 -$1000 for a letter for a $300,000 gun that the gun would bring....if it was "right". I really don't think a gun like that would be at ANY gunshow.
I recently had my hands on a Henry Nettleton inspected SAA and the gun was a 90% specimen worth maybe $35-50 g's easily. I got my magnifiey glass out and saw that certain numbers and inspection marks were engraved---not stamped. Colors were not right, etc.
Rememeber one thing, these calvary Colts have been very collectable since the 1930's and $$$$ brings out the worst in people.
Just today I had my hands on an 1894 Winchester serial number 928 which I could have had for under 2 g's--a joke. Upon further inspection, I noticed the barrel had been "stretched", relined and basically "gone over real good.----good but who knows, was it really # 928 or a junker that was buffed and reengraved? I handed it back with a silent laugh
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Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
gak, Ray, and OD, & the rest of you boys,
As Americans, we are the best in the world at being Capitalists---most are good---some are bad---some are downright professional deceivers.
I have personally seen BEAT---but rare---short rifles, etc. 1873 Winchesters being sold for a song only to see them a year later in another part of Pennsylvania but looking a LOT better. I know OF one guy who can restore junkers to a 95% gun and with my 40 years of playing with the old guns---well,---I could not tell the difference. Its only because I have a photographic memory or some guns and when I see them again, well, once again, I know........but 99% of others don't. Even Elmer Keith stated in "Sixguns" how he once owned a Walker Colt that was cut down and majorly beat that he sold only to see it come back on the market several years later "looking great".
No brag, but I can remember a tiny dimple on the front of a receiver, etc and a year later be able to identify that gun---screw the serial number--anyone can re-engrave that---some people get a factory letter and "make their own rare gun".
While I'm no John Kopec or George Madis, I have learned a bit over the years.
The guns I have learned to trust are ones that have come from old estates that I KNOW to have been untouched for 50-100 years. Its all in knowing the background facts and the family they came from. Those are drying up FAST.
Lots of dealers at gunshows and especially the internet are knowing thieves. A few still have honor and will present their guns properly. Leroy Mertz and the late Ray Meibaum are/were good guys. I know a few more. The guys in the game remember how one dude won the "Best of Marlins" (or something like that) a few years ago only for the authorities to find out the 1893 was a Doug Turnbull restoration he did when he was a young man in the late eighties. Things are that well done.
When you spend the big bucks, it pays to have the best check it out--knowledge is power . My vote goes to John Kopec on the old Colts.-----------Sixgun
As Americans, we are the best in the world at being Capitalists---most are good---some are bad---some are downright professional deceivers.
I have personally seen BEAT---but rare---short rifles, etc. 1873 Winchesters being sold for a song only to see them a year later in another part of Pennsylvania but looking a LOT better. I know OF one guy who can restore junkers to a 95% gun and with my 40 years of playing with the old guns---well,---I could not tell the difference. Its only because I have a photographic memory or some guns and when I see them again, well, once again, I know........but 99% of others don't. Even Elmer Keith stated in "Sixguns" how he once owned a Walker Colt that was cut down and majorly beat that he sold only to see it come back on the market several years later "looking great".
No brag, but I can remember a tiny dimple on the front of a receiver, etc and a year later be able to identify that gun---screw the serial number--anyone can re-engrave that---some people get a factory letter and "make their own rare gun".
While I'm no John Kopec or George Madis, I have learned a bit over the years.
The guns I have learned to trust are ones that have come from old estates that I KNOW to have been untouched for 50-100 years. Its all in knowing the background facts and the family they came from. Those are drying up FAST.
Lots of dealers at gunshows and especially the internet are knowing thieves. A few still have honor and will present their guns properly. Leroy Mertz and the late Ray Meibaum are/were good guys. I know a few more. The guys in the game remember how one dude won the "Best of Marlins" (or something like that) a few years ago only for the authorities to find out the 1893 was a Doug Turnbull restoration he did when he was a young man in the late eighties. Things are that well done.
When you spend the big bucks, it pays to have the best check it out--knowledge is power . My vote goes to John Kopec on the old Colts.-----------Sixgun
Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
Is that the new cover Jack?
The wife got me mine in '94 and they didn't have a cover then.
The wife got me mine in '94 and they didn't have a cover then.
Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow.
End the cycle of hatred, don't give them a tomorrow.
End the cycle of hatred, don't give them a tomorrow.
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Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
OD,
Yep, the book is the new edition which came out about a year or so ago.Its a wealth of information. John signed it for me.--------------Sixgun
Yep, the book is the new edition which came out about a year or so ago.Its a wealth of information. John signed it for me.--------------Sixgun
Re: Held a piece of history this weekend...
Excellent!Sixgun wrote:OD,
Yep, the book is the new edition which came out about a year or so ago.Its a wealth of information. John signed it for me.--------------Sixgun
He signed both of my books too, the "Colt Cavalry & Artillery Revolvers... A Continuing Study" with a Christmas wish, which I thought was darned nice of him to do.
Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow.
End the cycle of hatred, don't give them a tomorrow.
End the cycle of hatred, don't give them a tomorrow.