OT - "Titanic" movie question re: M1911 Pistol

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:33 pm

For some random reason, I was recalling how Billy Zane's bad guy character in this movie had a M1911 (nickel?).

The question is, in April of 1912 would it have been possible for him, as a civilian, to obtain such a piece???

What can I say...the mind wanders sometimes.

scott

Ridgerunner · Post by **Ridgerunner** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:18 pm

Easy....the character was obviously of the monied gentry; money talks and bulls--- walks....Easily obtained with money and influence....

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:00 pm

Well you know, the Titanic sank in 1912 and there they were riding around on it - explain that

lever-4-life · Post by **lever-4-life** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:13 pm

The 1911 wasn't even available to the public in 1912, so that would have to have been a stolen military sidearm

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:17 pm

When then was it available to the public?

lever-4-life · Post by **lever-4-life** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:20 pm

When then was it available to the public?

They were manufactured for commercial starting in 1912 but didn't hit shelfs until 1913.

bj94 · Post by **bj94** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:28 pm

I've seen this discussed before. Some people thought that the gun was available in America maybe a few months before the Titanic sailed. It would have had to have made its way to the UK during that time too. It is conceivable that a rich person with some pull could have gotten the gun before it was available in stores. Some people said that Jim Cameron is a stickler for details and would have researched this for the movie.

DerekR · Post by **DerekR** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:26 pm

I don't think it was a 1911. I think it was a Colt 1903. Watch it again and see if I'm right.

OD* · Post by OD* » Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:28 pm

Old Savage wrote:When then was it available to the public?

The first 40 M1911 pistols were assembled on 28 Dec, 1911 for the military. The first 43 Government Models (civilian pistols were not called 1911s) were assembled on 09 Mar, 1912. If Zane's character knew someone or had a whole lotta pull at Colt, it "might" have been possible, but I doubt it.

OD* · Post by OD* » Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:38 pm

lever-4-life wrote:
When then was it available to the public?
They were manufactured for commercial starting in 1912 but didn't hit shelfs until 1913.

Colt was shipping them in 1912. Government Model, serial number C380 was assembled on 17 July, 1912 and shipped to Pacific Hardware & Steel Company, San Francisco California on 3 September, 1912. It's in the private collection of Charles W. Clawson.

lever-4-life · Post by **lever-4-life** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:44 pm

[quote]Colt was shipping them in 1912.[quote]

My apologies, I was always to the thought it wasn't until 1913 they became a commercial gun

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:48 pm

lever-4-life wrote:
Colt was shipping them in 1912.

My apologies, I was always to the thought it wasn't until 1913 they became a commercial gun

20 lashes with a Hoppes soaked gun rag(100% cotton of course)!!!!!

OD* · Post by OD* » Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:48 pm

My apologies, I was always to the thought it wasn't until 1913 they became a commercial gun

No apologies needed my friend.

I'm just a huge junkie of the 1911/Government Models.

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:58 pm

DerekR wrote:I don't think it was a 1911. I think it was a Colt 1903. Watch it again and see if I'm right.

I remember it being too big for a .32 M1903. Maybe it was a .38 M1903 or an M1905.

But I still think it was an M1911.

Maybe someone can dig up some stills for us.

Scott

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:00 am

lever-4-life wrote:
Colt was shipping them in 1912.

My apologies, I was always to the thought it wasn't until 1913 they became a commercial gun

I think 1913 was the year for Navy/Marine Corps adoption. Maybe that's why that date sticks out for you.

OD* · Post by OD* » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:03 am

RSY wrote:
lever-4-life wrote:
Colt was shipping them in 1912.

My apologies, I was always to the thought it wasn't until 1913 they became a commercial gun
I think 1913 was the year for Navy/Marine Corps adoption. Maybe that's why that date sticks out for you.

Nope, it's not that either;
1912
1-500 Colt 500
501-1000 Colt USN 500
1001-1500 Colt 500
1501-2000 Colt USN 500
2001-2500 Colt 500
2501-3500 Colt USN 1000
3501-3800 Colt USMC 300
3801-4500 Colt 700
4501-5500 Colt USN 1000
5501-6500 Colt 1000
6501-7500 Colt USN 1000
7501-8500 Colt 1000
8501-9500 Colt USN 1000
9501-10500 Colt 1000
10501-11500 Colt USN 1000
11501-12500 Colt 1000
12501-13500 Colt USN 1000
13501-17250 Colt

The Navy placed it's first order for the M1911 in October 1911 for 7000 pistols.

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:24 am

You got me, Dan. That's what I get for looking at Wikipedia instead of old favorite ColtAutos.com.

scott

OD* · Post by OD* » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:27 am

Sam's got that on his web sight?

I see he does indeed.

OD* · Post by OD* » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:46 am

DerekR wrote:I don't think it was a 1911. I think it was a Colt 1903. Watch it again and see if I'm right.

It was an engraved Colt Government Model (1911).
http://www.originalprop.com/public_html ... unsmag.pdf
Scroll about half way down.

But the pistol they used would not have been available in 1912, it has the long wide spur hammer and Colt didn't used that until around serial # C99000 (1918).