OT: Fitting cylinder bushings in a Colt Style SA

[J Miller]

Q: When you fit a bushing to the cylinder of a Colt style SA, do you fit the bushing loose so it can turn in the cylinder, or tight so it can't?

A: .........



Joe

[Terry Murbach]

THE CYLINDER DOES NOT ROTATE ON THE BUSHING, JOSE, THEY ARE TO ROTATE TOGETHER. I HAVE NEVER SEEN 'EM THAT DID NOT AND ALL THE FITTING NEEDED WAS THE BUSHING'S FRONT TO THE FRAME SO THE CYLINDER COULD SLIP INTO PLACE IN THE GUNS FRAME....DID I SAY THIS RIGHT....I THINK SO...

[J Miller]

THE CYLINDER DOES NOT ROTATE ON THE BUSHING, JOSE, THEY ARE TO ROTATE TOGETHER. I HAVE NEVER SEEN 'EM THAT DID NOT AND ALL THE FITTING NEEDED WAS THE BUSHING'S FRONT TO THE FRAME SO THE CYLINDER COULD SLIP INTO PLACE IN THE GUNS FRAME....DID I SAY THIS RIGHT....I THINK SO...

Terry,

I understood your meaning.
I got a new bushing and base pin for my Uberti Cattleman from VTI. The used one that was put in when it was brought back to life allows the cylinder to wobble too much. Unfortunately the bushing is over sized in all directions. It has to be reamed for the base pin, and turned down for the ID of the cylinder.

Luckily I can use the pistol with the old one that's in it as I don't have a lathe or the reamer to do the job, and I don't have any smiths here in central corn field USA that I'll let touch my guns much any more. Also I'm not gonna be shipping any more guns out of state.


Joe

[Hobie]

Joe,

If it wobbles on the pin, i.e. ID is too great, maybe a Belt Mountain base pin would work. Don't know if he makes one but it can't hurt to ask. He is a member of this forum.

[AJMD429]

Could you 'peen' the inside flat of the bushing a bit to snug it up to the base pin...?

[J Miller]

Joe,

If it wobbles on the pin, i.e. ID is too great, maybe a Belt Mountain base pin would work. Don't know if he makes one but it can't hurt to ask. He is a member of this forum.

Hobie,
It has a Belt Mountain over sized Colt base pin in it now. The OEM one from VTI is actually larger.

Could you 'peen' the inside flat of the bushing a bit to snug it up to the base pin...?

AJMD,
The inside of the bushing is round, no way to peen it that I can think of.

Joe

[AJMD429]

I guess I'm thinking kind of like if you took a 3/8" metal washer and put it on the train tracks like folks do a penny, maybe it would come out more like a 5/16" one. I don't know if this bushing is shaped more like a washer or like a thread-spool, but either way, a few punch-peens on the flat end surface, but near the inner hole, would 'snug' things up a bit. Maybe...?

NOT something I'd necessarily do other than as a last resort if the right-fitting part were not obtainable, or maybe if I had a few spares of the wrong-fitting part in case I 'peened' too much, or otherwise messed it up.*




* Of course it is probably difficult to believe, but I have actually 'messed up' several such kitchen-table gunsmithing projects. Mostly I just do it on purpose to keep myself humble.

[J Miller]

AJ,

A Colt SA style cylinder bushing is about an inch and a half long, maybe 3/8" OD with a .255" or so hole down it's center. On the front end there is a flange that sets the end shake.
On this one the flange was too thin so I have 4 .002" Colt SAA end shake shims to bring the end shake within reason.
The ID of the bushing is either worn or wallowed out at the front so the whole shebang just wobbles.
I've actually got a Belt Mountain and an Uberti bushing, but both are over sized and need fitted. That's why I mentioned needing a lathe and a reamer.
There really isn't any way I can think of to peen the existing bushing to take up the slack.

[Mike Hunter]

Joe
Trying to get a handle on your problem. Is the cylinder wobbling on the bushing, is the bushing wobbling on the cylinder pin or is the cylinder wobbling while in the frame?

You can tighten the cylinder bushing to the pin by tapping/peening the outside of the bushing and rotating the bushing…make sure that you keep the pin in the bushing, you can also lengthen the bushing this way. I know a gentleman that uses a pipe cutter with a rounded (dull) blade, to squeeze the metal a little; he does it in two places on the bushing.

If the bushing is excessively loose in the cylinder, best to make a new oversize one that fits better.
If the pin is wobbling in the frame.. An oversize pin fitted to an oversize bushing, and ream the frame holes to the new pin size. Extreme cases the frame holes will be bushed, and welded up, then reamed to the correct size.

Hope this helps

Mike

[J Miller]

Joe
Trying to get a handle on your problem. Is the cylinder wobbling on the bushing, is the bushing wobbling on the cylinder pin or is the cylinder wobbling while in the frame?

You can tighten the cylinder bushing to the pin by tapping/peening the outside of the bushing and rotating the bushing…make sure that you keep the pin in the bushing, you can also lengthen the bushing this way. I know a gentleman that uses a pipe cutter with a rounded (dull) blade, to squeeze the metal a little; he does it in two places on the bushing.

If the bushing is excessively loose in the cylinder, best to make a new oversize one that fits better.
If the pin is wobbling in the frame.. An oversize pin fitted to an oversize bushing, and ream the frame holes to the new pin size. Extreme cases the frame holes will be bushed, and welded up, then reamed to the correct size.

Hope this helps

Mike

Mike,

Base pin fits fine in cylinder frame.

Base pin bushing is loose but not wobbly in cylinder, (easily turnable by fingers alone).

Cylinder / bushing assembly wobbles on base pin due to wear inside the bushing.

The problem is the early Uberti's used a larger than normal diameter base pin. It runs around .256" diameter IIRC. I'd have to check to be sure. The new replacement cylinder bushings are over sized on the OD and under sized on the ID so they need to be fitted from both directions.
This is really not the problem, I just wondered if the bushing should be a tight non moving fit or a loose fit to the cylinder. I think we pretty much got that part covered.

Joe

[M. M. Wright]

J,
The base pin bushing needs to rotate in the cylinder and on the base pin. Colt used 2 bearing surfaces to keep the cylinder turning with black powder cartridges. What you need is someone who is qualified to fit a new base pin and bushing. NKJ can do it, or PM me and I'll give you contact information a couple of others. Anyone who is good will take a while.
Notice that the front of the bushing protrudes from the cylinder and goes forward past the end of the barrel to be out of the blast from the cylinder/barrel gap. Remington pistols didn't have this feature and get hard to turn after only one or two cylinders full are fired. Did it when new and the repros still do it.

[Pitchy]

Joe what caliber

[J Miller]

Joe what caliber

Forty Five Colt .....

Joe

[Pitchy]

I have this old cylinder and bushing, don`t remember what it came out off.
The hole diameter where ya put the shell in is approx. 495.
Total length with bushing in is 1.850.
bullet end of hole is 456 diameter.
Does that sound close, if it will work i`ll send it to ya and you can try it, if it doesn`t work out send it back.

[J Miller]

I have this old cylinder and bushing, don`t remember what it came out off.
The hole diameter where ya put the shell in is approx. 495.
Total length with bushing in is 1.850.
bullet end of hole is 456 diameter.
Does that sound close, if it will work i`ll send it to ya and you can try it, if it doesn`t work out send it back.

You gotta PM on the way.

Joe

[AJMD429]

The ID of the bushing is either worn or wallowed out at the front so the whole shebang just wobbles.

Thanks J Miller for the description, and pitchy for the picture. I am of course 'diagnosing' and 'treating' in an area outside of my specialty but perhaps if all else fails, taking a drill-bit or other smooth rod of slightly-smaller-than-specifications diameter, coated with 'release' agent, then using some JB Weld to fill inside the bushing, and poking that bit into it to re-form a smaller-diameter hole, would be an answer. It isn't like there is a severe amount of stress on the part; it just needs a stable and strong 'filler'.

Potential problems would be making sure the release agent indeed stayed on the rod enough that you could remove it (maybe using a separate rod initially to poke most of the JB Weld out of the bushing would help, using the final one after that), and getting it centered. I suppose the latter problem would be minimal given the small dimensions we're dealing with, but if you think it needed, a 'jig' of some sort might be doable.

Keep us posted and good luck...!

[J Miller]

AJMD,

No need for JB Weld. As I said above I have a brand new bushing that just needs to be fitted. All I need to do it is the tools. Those will come eventually.

Joe