Need Info/advice! Quick! Ruger Flattop

jbm1968 · Post by **jbm1968** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:38 pm

I just got a call on a Ruger Flattop .41 Magnum at about $550 in good condition with "bone" Grips... What do you guys think? The shop will open at 12:00 today, any feedback???

I don't need it (of course) but it sounds like a great deal...

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:42 pm

I really don't know their actual value, but I'd still haggle that downward if possible!

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:44 pm

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A RUGER FLATTOP IN 41MAG.

deerwhacker444 · Post by **deerwhacker444** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:49 pm

Wow, so according to Mr. Murbach, that would be a "1 of 1",...extremely valuable.!

It must be like that .45 acp Luger from years back.

jbm1968 · Post by **jbm1968** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:49 pm

Thanks for the info! Thats what I was wondering! I bet it is just an Old Model Blackhawk, which is still interesting, but at what cost???

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:50 pm

Terry Murbach wrote:THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A RUGER FLATTOP IN 41MAG.

Well, sorta still questioning one that knows more than I, weren't they introduced before the NM? ISTR, a pard that had them in "3-screw" configuration.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:53 pm

If it is an unmolested .44, a 1956-59 .44 flat-top in excellent condition is worth a minimum of $700+.
I've seen nice/minty ones trade hands @ $950+, several times.
An OM .41 Blackhawk is worth about half a much - $350-450.

Many un-informed dealers/persons refer to regular Blackawks, like the .41's, as "Flat top's" because the BH cylinder frame top is flat ahead of the rear sight.
They don't realize that a true Flat Top doesn't have the raised protective frame ears around the sides of the rear sight.

All true Flat Tops, both .357 & .44, are 3-screw Old Models (except for the New Model 50th Anniversary Models).

Some Blackhawks are 3-screw Old Models, and some are 2-pin New Models.
All Blackhawks & Super Blackhawks have protective rear sight ears - Flat Tops do not.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:59 pm

Pete44ru wrote:If it is an unmolested .44, a 1956-59 .44 flat-top in excellent condition is worth a minimum of $700+.
I've seen nice/minty ones trade hands @ $950+, several times.
Many um-informed dealers/persons refer to regular Blackawks, like the .41's, as "Flat top's" because the BH cylinder frame top is flat ahead of the rear sight.
They don't realize that a true Flat Top doesn't have the raised protective frame ears around the sides of the rear sight.
All true Flat Tops, both .357 & .44, are 3-screw Old Models (except for the New Model 50th Anniversary Models).
Some Blackhawks are 3-screw Old Models, and some are 2-pin New Models.
All Blackhawks & Super Blackhawks have protective rear sight ears - Flat Tops do not.

Thank you Pete. I'd heard there was a real difference, just didn't know what exactly it was.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:09 pm

Yore mighty welcome, Sir.

BTW - There's other differences, too - especially when talking about .357's.
The 3-screw .357 Flat Top(1955) had a smaller cylinder frame than the later (1956) .44 Flat Top.
The .357 frame size stayed the same when the rear sight ears were added, but went to the larger .44-sized frame in the 1973 2-pin New Models.
The .44 Flat Top not only grew the protective rear sight ears in 1959, it also got a longer gripframe & a new name - the Super Blackhawk.

The values really start to go through the ceiling, when the shortest and/or longest issue barrels are involved - or those few Supers with an extra-long long gripframe.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:33 pm

I'll add 2 more cents......

You'll also see Flat Tops currently that are 44 Special and (might recall seeing a 41 Mag) but they are custom conversions....not original but reworked and customized in later years or one of the new 50th Anniversary's that were converted. Just to avoid confusion when you see them popping up with the Flat top Frame. Not original calibers as are the 357 Mag. and 44 Mag.

Pete, the Flat Top configuration continued until 1962 or 3 I believe without modification to the top strap/sight area. Pretty sure I'm correct but I specialize in being wrong

. I have one from 1961 and there are no ears. Were you talking about the Standard Flat Tops or the Supers?

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:51 pm

I was talking about the Supers, but Ruger was notorious for "parts bin theory" of gun assembly - wherein they pitched a week's ran of parts (a 1 year supply) into a bin & pulled one out, as needed, whenever.
They also used old parts beyond "upgrade" time, just to get rid of them & make room for the newer stuff.

So, Yeah, there's definitely an "overlap" to any of the so-called definitive changeover dates.

I have no doubt they would have assembled Flat Tops up until 1972, if they had any frames still left. After that, I believe their lawyers would have stopped them - because of losing the lawsuit that led to the New Models.
IMO, The lawsuit also resulted in their installing the safety conversion into any Old Model they could get their mitts on.

ceb · Post by **ceb** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:07 pm

As Terry said, no original flattops in .41mag. Probably a three screw, still desirable though I've seen them in the $400-450 range. Ruger did make the .44 flattop in '62.

jbm1968 · Post by **jbm1968** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:40 pm

And the end of the story: It was indeed an old model .41 Magnum Blackhawk with a 4 3/4" barrel in Very Good Condition. It turns out the "bone" grips are plastic and very oversized. Still, a nice gun at $400 but overpriced at $550. The .41 fills a hole in my single action Ruger Collection (well, collection of 2 so far).

The good news was the fine selections of older leverguns that the shop brought in on consignment. None were priced yet but they included a Savage 99 takedown in 22 HP with a Lyman tang sight along with a semi buckhorn rear sight; another 99 Takedown in 300 Savage with a Weaver K2.5 Mounted to a mount which dovetailed into the rear dovetail on the barrel (looks like it could not be taken down with that scope mount) It is a GREAT looking rifle that I want to get the price on tomorrow!; a M94 in 32 special in the 2.2 million Ser # range in good condition (great for a field gun); a 30-30 trapper with most of the finish worn off; two takedown M55s in poor condition in 30-30. It was a good set that I will update you on tomorrow

junkbug · Post by **junkbug** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:46 pm

The scope mount on the Savage 99 is called a Stith mount. You are correct about it disabling the takedaown feature. It is a vintage mount, designed to work on rifles of that era without drilling and tapping. They use existing dovetails and existing screw holes.

The scope and mount may be worth nearly as much as the rifle.

Sean

jbm1968 · Post by **jbm1968** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:51 pm

Thanks Junkbug! I will really have to check that one out in the morning!!! If I pass I will let any interested parties know