OT - Grumman F3F-2

[Hobie]

I know there are a bunch of aviation buffs here. Of course if you like mechanical things you like airplanes at least a little bit. Me being who I am, a really retro kinda guy, I liked the old planes. My favorites are the P-38 Lightning and the Grumman F3F. There is just something about them. Just the other day I was showing a movie at the shop called "Flight Command" which features the F3F. Neat stuff.

[C. Cash]

Very cool. There is a certain class to that era of airplanes for sure, and that class reached it zenith with the WWII birds. Always had a weakness for the Staggerwing Beech. If you get the chance, you have to go to the overflow Air and Space museum near Dulles Airport in Washington DC. It is extremely well done . The Enola Gay is there, P-38, P-40, Corsair, Bearcat and P-51 in race form. They have Bob Hoover's Shrike Commander and Art Scholl's Chipmunk as well, which many of us remember as kids. Tons more, both early and late.

[awp101]

http://www.planeaday.com/archives/2010_Jan.htm#11210

I don't know if this is the video you have Hobie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os19XiWGDjs

[Rusty]

Wow Hobie. I see by looking at the credits for the movie that Red Skelton was in it. That would make the movie worthwhile to me if nothing else did. It would be hard to picture him in a serious part though.

[Hobie]

He's the jester of the squadron.

[Newtmaker]

Count me in as an avid aviation enthusiast as well. We have a group in our church that meets on Wed evenings; Mens Aviation Group. Our "hero" is Bill R. who flew B-25's in WWII Pacific campaign. You only have to spend a very short time around those folks to fully realize they are indeed "The Greatest Generation!"
I flew a lot in my 27 year Navy career, but as a crewman. My biggest regret in life is not pursueing my private pilot's license. Now that I could afford it I am getting too old to really consider it anymore.

Walt

[Hobie]

I once had a fella come in the shop who had flown B-10s! He'd lived next to some Army Airfield as a kid and hung out at the hangers learning to work on the planes and the pilots would sometimes take him up for a flight. So, he comes of age and decides to enlist. As some old timers remember, if you wanted to enlist in a particular branch or regiment you had to go to the "home" of that regiment and so he hitchhiked to Texas (I forget where). He's tested and told his math skills are lacking. So, he hitchhikes to the University of New Mexico and takes a semester or two of math and comes back and gets enlisted. He was sent to the Philippines to fly the B-10s. Yes, he's there for the Jap attack and is in the Bataan Death March. Survived (obviously) to complete his career and retire and goes on to other endeavors and successes.



Imagine a time when a kid could hang out with the most up-to-date technology and even get taken for a flight... COL Cooper was right, the past is another country...

[bdhold]

Grumman built them to land on ships, and still do.
My favorite Grumman is the XF5F- built a flying model from drawings when I was a kid

It eventually developed into X7F Tigercat, which was a very hot airplane that became dated by jets.

[Lefty Dude]

I was able to see and board a B-17 & a B-24 Liberator this past spring. They flew into The Phoenix area Suburb Airports on a Western Tour. The B-17 was the "Nine-0-Nine" and the Liberator was the "Witchcraft". Also with the group was a P-51. The P-51 was a trainer version with the rear seat. They were offering rides in the Mustang. In the Crowd was a WWII fighter pilot Vet, 86 years old. He took the ride and remarked the last time he flew a P-51 was 1945. You should of seen his smile when they landed and he got off that plane. The crowd went wild and gave him a very loud cheer. I was later told he got a little stick time.

As an ex-Navy Airdale, Aviation Electrician's mate & Air crewman I appreciate the old War Birds. My Squadron was VW-1, stationed on NAS Agana, Guam. We Flew Super-Connies, WV-2's (RC-121). Prior to my Discharged I was trained on the P3V Orion. They wanted me to Reinlist and become a Flight Engineer. Kinda sorry I turned that down. However that would have placed me in the middle of the Vietnam war. I was discharged in 1960.

BTW; If you want to see the Old Navy War-Birds. The Navy Aviation Museum is at NAS Pensacola, Florida.

[COSteve]

Deleted

[BigSky56]

My favorite ground support prop bird is a Douglas A1 skyraider, Sandy, if I close my eyes I can hear that radial firing and smell the avgas when they go by and hear the click click of the bomb release and those 20mm guns were something , they can soak up a lot of lead and keep flying. danny

[J Miller]

I think we're all anachronisms.

For those who care to know, the B17 in COSteves threads is an "E" model. Look close at the nose. Notice how stumpy it is and you can also see the bird cage type framing.

I saw the 909, Witchcraft, and Tondelayo here in Springfield three years ago. Man do I love those old bombers.
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtop ... pringfield

I saw FiFi in Phoenix back in 98 before I lost my senses and moved here. As big as the B-29 is, it's not really that big up close.

Hobie,
When I was a kid Revell? I'm not sure really made a 1/32 scale kit of the F3F. It had retractable landing gear, you rotated the prop and the gear went up or down. I never could afford to buy one.

Joe

[Newtmaker]

I was able to see and board a B-17 & a B-24 Liberator this past spring. They flew into The Phoenix area Suburb Airports on a Western Tour. The B-17 was the "Nine-0-Nine" and the Liberator was the "Witchcraft". Also with the group was a P-51. The P-51 was a trainer version with the rear seat. They were offering rides in the Mustang. In the Crowd was a WWII fighter pilot Vet, 86 years old. He took the ride and remarked the last time he flew a P-51 was 1945. You should of seen his smile when they landed and he got off that plane. The crowd went wild and gave him a very loud cheer. I was later told he got a little stick time.

As an ex-Navy Airdale, Aviation Electrician's mate & Air crewman I appreciate the old War Birds. My Squadron was VW-1, stationed on NAS Agana, Guam. We Flew Super-Connies, WV-2's (RC-121). Prior to my Discharged I was trained on the P3V Orion. They wanted me to Reinlist and become a Flight Engineer. Kinda sorry I turned that down. However that would have placed me in the middle of the Vietnam war. I was discharged in 1960.

BTW; If you want to see the Old Navy War-Birds. The Navy Aviation Museum is at NAS Pensacola, Florida.

Howdy, Lefty Dude. My first tour on Guam was 65-68, across the street from your old hangar in the new photo lab. The lab was on the other side of the field near the back gate in an old quonset hut.
I went back to Guam in 72-75 as OIC of the photo lab, and again in 82-84. Duva was good
I flew in your 121 that was the people hauler down to Townsville Australia. Boy, what a Loooong flight
But, hey! Them were the good ole days, right?
+1 on the Naval Aviation Museum. It is one of the best out there!

Walt

[Rusty]

I remember seeing one of there air races when I younger. The canopy was so small he could only wear a golf hat and still have room for his headphones.

Darryl Greenamyer is an American aviator. He started his flying career in the reserves.[citation needed] He then started work with Kelly Johnson at Lockheed where he eventually became an SR-71 test pilot at Skunk works/Area 51. While working at Lockheed he met many of the engineers who would later help him make modifications to future race planes. He won his first victory at the Reno Air Races in 1965. He is the only pilot from the 1965 season still racing. He is the third most winning competitor in Reno Air Race history. In 1994, Greenamyer led an unsuccessful mission to restore the Kee Bird, a B-29 aircraft which crash-landed in Greenland in 1947.

In 1969, in highly-modified Grumman F8F-2 Bearcat "Conquest I", Greenamyer's average speed of 777 kph (483 mph) broke the piston-driven speed record which had been held by a German Messerschmitt Me 209 since WWII.[1] The record-breaking was featured in the 1970 documentary "Man for the Record" (Pennzoil/Cobra Enterprises) [2] and Greenamyer won the National Air Races six times with this airplane before donating it to the Smithsonian in 1977.[1]


Something now has put a burr under Jr's saddle. He downloaded a flight sim and is talking about lessons. He also wants to hang the old oil painting of our circa 1965 Cherokee.

[crystal river charli]

My dad was a model builder at North American Aviation in Columbus Ohio.
I'm kinda partial to the P-51, and the OV-10A Bronco.


Charlie

[jeepnik]

I've been privileged to fly aboard several WWII aircraft. Most recently a B-24 and B-17, at air shows. Expensive but worth it. But to tell the truth, the two that were the most interesting we free. While stationed in Spain, I flew aboard a PBY Catalina that had been outfitted to be an aerial firefighting tanker. They would land on a body of water, toss a hose over the side, suck up a few liters of water and take that loooong sloooow ride down the water trying to lift off. The other was the only "enemy" aircraft I've been on. The Spanish Air Force had an old JU-52 left over from the revolution when the German Condor legion flew for Franco. I'd seen them fly it once, and simply went and ask if I could go up the next time. Spanish pilots were pretty cool, and loved showing off their airplanes. Though, I think if I had told my bosses they would have had a fit. Got a picture of that bird somewhere, gotta dig it out.

[Hobie]

I've been to the National Naval Aviation Museum at Pensacola NAS and the Mighty Eighth Air Force Museum in Savannah as well as the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum at Dulles and to Kennedy Space Center. All very, very neat.

[Lefty Dude]

Walt;

Duva, Duva to you also.

If you want to see Photo's of VW-1 Squadron area and other Pix's of NAS Agana.

Google VW-1, go to the VW-1 Association Web site. There you will see on the Home page the WV-2 & B-17's with actual engine start up-noise. Also many other posts, Pix's & etc.
Also is the Squadon History.

My Aircraft # was 143227, and we were Aircrew # 7. In 1960 all 143 series aircraft were retired and sent to the Navy bone yard at Navy Air Facility Litchfield Park, Arizona. I last saw my Aircraft # 143227 after it was relocated to Davis Monthan AFB Tucson, Arizona in 1968.
I beleved she was overhauled, rebuilt and sold to the Flying Tiger Air Lines, and used to haul Air Freight all over the World or as many Connies, stripped and sold for scrap.

The Newer WV-2's were used for many applications in Vietnam, working alongside the P3V's.

[Mike D.]

There is an F8F not far from me, and 3 P-51Ds, too. Last I heard a B-29 was undergoing some work in Auburn. There will be big aviation show nest week, but I will miss it.

[Lawyer Daggit]

I am also an aircraft nut- though modern jets don't interest me.

I saw a photo in a magazine the other day of a twin mustang. Essentially two mustangs bolted to a central pod carrying fuel etc.

Does anyone know what it flew like? or was it just one of those ideas that seemed like a good idea at the time.

[awp101]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-82_Twin_Mustang

The North American F-82 Twin Mustang was the last American piston-engine fighter ordered into production by the United States Air Force. Based on the P-51 Mustang, the F-82 was originally designed as a long-range escort fighter in World War II, however the war ended well before the first production units were operational, so its postwar role changed to that of night-fighting. Radar-equipped F-82s were used extensively by the Air Defense Command as replacements for the P-61 Black Widow night fighter. During the Korean War, Japanese-based F-82s were among the first USAF aircraft to operate over Korea. The first three North Korean aircraft destroyed by U.S. forces were shot down by F-82s, the first being a North-Korean Yak-11 downed over Gimpo by the USAF 68th Fighter Squadron.

[C. Cash]

My favorite ground support prop bird is a Douglas A1 skyraider, Sandy, if I close my eyes I can hear that radial firing and smell the avgas when they go by and hear the click click of the bomb release and those 20mm guns were something , they can soak up a lot of lead and keep flying. danny

My Dad was around those at Danang, Vietnam 72-73...got a few pictures that he brought home. He always liked that plane too.


Here ya go Lawyer Daggitt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Amer ... in_Mustang

[Rusty]

FWIW There is a museum in Polk City called the Fantasy of Flight. The end of their runway is right on the edge of I-4 between Lakeland and Orlando. Right now they have a Super Connie sitting on the threshold with nose pointed at the road. I seem to remember that this one was at one time the equivalent of Air Force one for the king of Sweden or Denmark, I can't remember which.

[awp101]

My favorite ground support prop bird is a Douglas A1 skyraider, Sandy, if I close my eyes I can hear that radial firing and smell the avgas when they go by and hear the click click of the bomb release and those 20mm guns were something , they can soak up a lot of lead and keep flying. danny

BigSky, I ran across this story/article a couple of years ago but didn't bookmark it. Your post finally got me digging around again to find it:

Carrying a Nuke to Sevastopol
http://www.warbirdforum.com/toss.htm

I don't have time right now but in a little bit I'll post up how and why aviation became such an interest in my life. Other hobbies and interests wax and wane but there's always something in me wanting to read and experience more about aircraft, firearms and cars...

[retmech]

As a young boy I read Col Robert L. Scott's "God is my Co-pilot" and have been an aviation nut ever since. P-40's were made right here in Buffalo NY and my Dad worked in the plant so the P-40 is very special to me. I joined the Air Force and served as a B-47 mechanic, got out, went to Northrop and got my A&P ticket. I spent most of my adult life working on aircraft and loved it all. Even working in the snow during our Buffalo winters I enjoyed being around aircraft. I only worked on recips for a couple months when I started and then they retired them from the airlines. I spent most of my time on jets and mainly 727's, but I sure do love the sound of an Allison V16 or a P&W R-2800 on a full throttle low altitude pass at an air show! I got hooked on airplanes early and will be till I'm looking up at the grass.

[Ben_Rumson]

I sure am glad my war was Nam.. Cause in a lot of cases in WWII, the bad guys equipment was as good or better than ours...I'm down with you guys on the SkyRaider...Glad she got to prove herself... Dang thing could carry nearly as much as a B17!..Grunts would cheer when them Skyraiders showed up...I imagine it was the same in the Pacific when the Corsairs swooped in.....Skyraiders were Pee bringers!...and when them flashy Vietnamese pilots were at the reins...Well... they put on the best show I ever seen...WWII style...I swear........Big fun to watch when a train of them unleashed on something...They'd take turns... one after another they’d roll out and dive on in...dang near straight down in bug eyed dives with everything rockin at the same time!.... launchin rockets..droppin bombs...guns thumpin...YeeeeHahh!! Tons of earth & whole trees flying in the air!!...then zooming back up into a pretty wingover to survey their work... mebbe for encore ....

[BigSky56]

Ben your right about charlie loosing his water when a flight of A1s came on station Ive seen those birds with 750lb napalm pills that they could drop in a trash can the A37s and A6 intruder couldnt hold a candle to the A1s when it came to troop support the only exception was a specter gunship or a squadron of cobras. danny

[gak]

See my post under the VJ-Day thread for more (including Guam comments) but regarding the B-17E, as a pilot-trainer my father flew a lot of those, as well as the 'tweener Fs, and chin-turreted Gs. Among many different planes throughout the war (C-47s, B-17s,24s, 25s, 29s and A-20s mostly, his top planes were the 17 as his sentimental favorite for all the reasons folks have heard, and the A-20 (A for attack) for its great airworthiness--like the 17--but also the "near fighter" way it flew.

[66GTO]

I tend to prefer the planes that were used in support of ground troops, everything from the C-130 Spectre, A-10 WartHog, A-1 Skyraider, P-38 Lightning, and the P-47 Thunderbolt.

I probably feel that way because my dear ol' Dad was in the 101st Airborne at Bastogne and when the skies cleared up the P-47's were called in on the German 88's that were aimed at my Dad's foxhole. He was dug in the forest and the German's would fire the 88's into the tree tops over the fox holes and rain down shrapnel and splinters. There was scene in "The Band of Brothers" depicting those tree bursts. The 101st was happy to see those P-47's.

[MrMurphy]

I've been fortunate in my life to be able to be on/in/around quite a few aircraft. Oddly enough during my time in the USAF I guarded a lot of aircraft but the only ones I ever flew on were commercial.


Pre-USAF i was a news photographer, and I got to crawl around a B-17G with my news camera. And get paid for it. But maneuvering a 25 lb TV camera was tough in some of those spaces. I also shot an interview with the retired colonel (he'd been a LT at the time) who blew up the bridge over the river Kwai in real life. I have an autographed copy of the book he wrote about it, and the interview was shot with him sitting in the bombardier's seat (still fully equipped with Norden) of one of the last flying B-24s, a converted-back-to-bomber British LB30. He lives near Gatesville, TX and we shot it at the McGregor airfield. A P40 was along for escort as well.

I've been in 4 different -17s, two -24s, a 25, the last flying HE-111 (General Franco's) though i just stuck my head in as it cost $$$ and i was flat broke by that time.

I've guarded quite a few other rare and unusual still-in-service craft in some rather interesting places in the world they never officially went to.....that's not for discussion here though.

[Old Time Hunter]

kinda partial to the P-38 since Bong was the leading American Ace using it, but the Corsair gull wing, the P-47, and the P-51 all hold a special place too. As far as bombers...well, kinda partial to the B-26 even if it had a high aspect wing, yet it could almost hold it's own against the majority of enemy fighters in WWII. Heavy bombers in my mind goes to the B-17, even though it's bomb load was a bit on the shy side, it's service ceiling more'n made up for it.

[1894cfan]

I know there are a bunch of aviation buffs here. Of course if you like mechanical things you like airplanes at least a little bit. Me being who I am, a really retro kinda guy, I liked the old planes. My favorites are the P-38 Lightning and the Grumman F3F. There is just something about them. Just the other day I was showing a movie at the shop called "Flight Command" which features the F3F. Neat stuff.

If you liked Flight Command, you'd LOVE Dive Bomber! LOTS of F3F-2's, TBD's, SB2U-2's, N3N's etc. Had Fred McMurry(sp?) and Errol Flynn.

[olyinaz]

Flight Command is a wonderful movie and I enjoyed it quite a bit as well. I could go on and on about airplanes and flying but I do have to say that I like an F8F Bearcat quite a bit and we had T28s in my battalion in the Army (go figure) so I'm partial to them as well.

Round engines forever,
Oly

[bdhold]

I knew an F-82 mechanic - they were still flying attack missions in Korea, and one shot down a MIG, which was quite a feat.

When I was aboard CV-66, we had the last flying recip in the Navy, a Grumman C-1

[bdhold]

speaking of MIGs, restored Russian jets are hot toys for the wealthy, as are some of our old jets, such as this beauty, the Douglas A-4E

[damienph]

I've been reading the forum for quite awhile. It took a non-gun topic to encourage me to post. My dad was a career USAF weather officer. 1962-66 we were at Chanute AFB, Rantoul, Ill. I have been inside most of the aircraft that used to be on display on the grass around the base. My favorite then was the B36. It was massive, and for a 11-12 year old, a lot of fun to play in. That base closed in the 90's? I was in Garden City, KS in the late 90's and saw a B36 dismantled and strapped to several train flat cars sitting at a siding. I read in a newspaper later that it was the same B36 from Chanute on it's way to (I think) Castle Air Museum in Calif. By the way, all of the display aircraft were posted "off limits". After awhile all of the accessible (to us) hatches were either locked or riveted shut.

We were at Wright-Patterson AFB (1969-71) when the AF Museum was moving to its new building and while many of the fighters were parked outside waiting to be towed, a friend and I were allowed to sit in the cockpits, with permission, this time.

But my favorite aircraft (at least bomber) is the B58 Hustler. It was absolutely beautiful.

I am a levergunner, I currently have 8.

[gak]

Although my father's forte was the WWII bombers, he got some decent flying time in the P-82/F-82, at his request, to check it out. He loved it. Later he also got some seat time in the B-47 when it first came out, when his command requested his opinion on their new pride 'n joy. After the war he flew B-50s (enhanced B-29s--mostly taller tail, more powerful engines) and spent some time in the B-36 (six rear facing props, two forward jets IIRC) and the cargo C-124, military version of the Boeing Stratocruiser I think. Unsubstantiated story (from a third party) that he once flew Le May in the latter from Tampa to Omaha.

Regarding the C-130, as those who have flown it can testify, possibly the loudest inside, as most were uninsulated--wax earplugs mandatory! As family, we flew sidesaddle in paratroop jump seats from Tokyo to Kyushu, Japan's southernmost main island where our base was, and landed at night with two feet of monsoon rain on the runway. To get to Japan (some 36 hours total from CA) we flew backwards in paratroop seats on a Military Air Transport Service--MATS--C-118 (DC-6)--with the a/c on the fritz! Stopping at Wake Island to refuel, we flew in over a beached WWII ship wreckage (owner unknown) and what appeared to be a Zero or Zeke still stuffed half-way into the sand nose down. Amazing stuff for an 8 year old!

Edit/add: In Japan we took weekend drives all the time. One day we checked out Asahi, an old Korean War base (as was ours--Itazuke AB--F-102s, 100s and 105s). Asahi been handed over to the Japan Air Defense command, along with a whole squadron of F-86s. With a salute to the Japanese MP at the gate, we drove right onto the tarmac...even during the "heat" of the Cold War (our base was about 10 minutes from Russian missiles). It was very odd--even at my young age--to see the tell tale red "meatball" symbol on former Air Force planes--just l7 or so years after WWII. We had a few Russian MIG fly-overs--one of them I saw and we were air raid alarmed while I was out on the play field at recess--we had to escort out of airspace with our F-102s.

[bdhold]

gak, I used to crawl around the XC-99 at KAFB, TX, which is the transport built around the B-36 wing.

[damienph]

Now THAT is cool! I know they are not as glamorous as fighters and bombers but...

[gak]

Bulldog1935, although by 1964-66, B-52s had largely taken over as our main stategic bombers, we still had a few B-36s at Kelly AFB, San Antonio, our last station. I remember seeing one dwarfing an old (by then) B-50 parked next to it.Never thought of the B-29/50 as being particularly small! (Dito 707 vs 747!). My father said he gave us boys a tour of a B-36 once, but I only vaguely remember.

[MrMurphy]

The A-4 is not retired.

We may have retired it 40+ yrs ago, but there are some out there still doing the job. The Brazilian Navy still operates them off their one aircraft carrier as far as I recall to this day. It may be "obsolete" compared to newer jets but in the ground support role or even one on one against a fighter if the pilot has a clue at closer ranges, it can still hang.

[bdhold]

I would think there could be no greater rush than tooling around in your private A-4 - who needs a Ferrari?

http://www.raptoraviation.com/aircraft% ... 0Shep.html

[Newtmaker]

The A-4 is not retired.

We may have retired it 40+ yrs ago, but there are some out there still doing the job. The Brazilian Navy still operates them off their one aircraft carrier as far as I recall to this day. It may be "obsolete" compared to newer jets but in the ground support role or even one on one against a fighter if the pilot has a clue at closer ranges, it can still hang.

Sea story time My first tour of duty after boot camp and photo school was in the middle of the Mojave Desert, Naval Ordinance Test Station. What a place for a 19 year old!
My most favorite duty there was to go out to the toss bombing range and photograph the A-4's doing their toss bomb practice. We would be in a bunker close to a 50' diameter concrete ring/wall, about 3' high. In the middle was a solid brass colume, 4 or 5 foot high and maybe 6" diameter. It was beat to hell! The practice bombs being "tossed" were about 2 feet long and maybe weighed 40 pounds. They very often hit the brass colume, after being tossed from 2 or 3 miles away. As a previous post/link mentioned on the A-1 toss bombing drill, the A-4 was the same setup, except much faster.

I would ask folks there why they were practicing this technique but no one would ever tell me However, I eventually learned the why, and really wondered if it would work in a real world situation.

Fast forward 25 years. My last CO before I retired was a Navy Captain, Aviator, A-4 driver. One day we were reminissing about our younger days, and the story of the toss bombing practice was mentioned. The Captain beamed broadly and stated that I had probably watched him in some of those runs. His first operational squadron as a Ltjg was in a "volunteer group" that in essence were "one way missions" with the A-4 and a nuke below. He acknowledged that although the technique was supposed to work, the fact was that as the weapons got smaller, yet stronger, it was soon realized that the A-4 would never be able to outrun the blast from a 1 megaton or larger burst. The program was soon scrapped, especially as missile technology advanced so rapidly, especially the sub based stuff and the longe range cruise missiles.

Walt

[COSteve]

Any of you Airplane Nuts get out to central California should make it a point to stop by Castle Air Museum. They have a ton of WWII and later aircraft including a B-36 and SR-71. It's the best $10 you'll ever spend. Check them out HERE.

[Bullard4075]

P-38 fan might want to check out this site.
http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/P38.html

[samb]

Hobie,
Love the sound of those round engines thanks for the wonderful write-up! My favorite piston fighter is the Corsair! The most favorite airplane I have flown was the DC-3 and my favorite ride was in an A-26 waterbomber.
Samb

[Hankster]

B-24's were the "workhorse" of the war due to longer range/heavier payload... but they were a PITA to fly.... and the Davis wing, tho it could lift a heavier load, was WEAK due to the stress/loading factor....a hit that would simply stagger and shake a B-17, would cause the wing to collapse on a B-24, and down you go..... if you watch one of those TV commercials for a Time-Life WW2 video set.... you can see a 24 taking a wing hit, and it coming right off... B-17 was a joy to fly, and trim up.... and it brought you back....

[gak]

As pilot trainer during the war, my father put in a lot of hours in the B-24. I've got a pic somewhere of an air-to-air shot of him flying. The often heard "flies like a brick" was pretty accurate he said. He still liked it for a variety of reasons, and respected it's capabilities though never developed the warm and fuzzies like he did for the 17, the A-20 and some others.

Someone mentioned the DC-3. I was looking at dad's flight log (fr 1941-58 or so) the other day, and didn't remember he'd flown the the DC-3 (AF version - C-47 aka "Goonie Bird") as much as he had. I do recall him saying "great plane." Years later, we heard an old flying buddy of his--who flew P-38s in North Africa and F-86s in Korea--recall how he got called out of reserves at 48 for Vietnam, his third war. A pilot through-and-through, he complained so much to his superiors in Saigon of his paper-pushing duties, badgering to fly (he had delusions of F-4s!), they said "ok, you're going to fly 47s over the DMZ!" So, on alert 24/7, he flew electronic surveilance flights looking for SAM sites and other activity, getting shot at by small arms and AA fire and more than a few SAMs. All they had to defend their butts and million dollars of electronics was avoidance chaffe and .45s strapped to their vests. He told us how miserable the duty was low level flying, getting shot at and scrambling constantly--taking off and landing in monsoon conditions day and night "...I vowed to never again complain about anything!"

[donw]

i spent most of my enlistment in the army in an armed helicopter unit, the UTTHELCO off of the Ryukyu islands (Okinawa). we had Bell HU-1A's at the time. went to Thailand/ 'Nam in early 60's with 25th inf div.

just a couple of weeks ago, a Navy Helldiver was salvaged from under 80 feet of water and mud in Lake Otay, near Chula vista, CA that was ditched there in may of 1945 during a training flight. it was stationed at Ream Field of Imperial Beach at that time. the Navy still uses Ream field for a helicopter training landing site.

it was located by a fisherman looking for fish with his radar.

there were some interesting observations about it: there were some unusual modifications made to it and there was an army gunner flying with a navy pilot the day it ditched. it hasn't been ascertained why it ditched.

i occasionally see some of the old war birds fly over here where i live now: P-51 mustangs and even, one of the few left flying, B-17's

March air base, near Riverside, CA, has a great air museum, too...many WWII, Korean war birds

[66GTO]

just a couple of weeks ago, a Navy Helldiver was salvaged from under 80 feet of water and mud in Lake Otay, near Chula vista, CA that was ditched there in may of 1945 during a training flight. it was stationed at Ream Field of Imperial Beach at that time. the Navy still uses Ream field for a helicopter training landing site.

it was located by a fisherman looking for fish with his radar.

there were some interesting observations about it: there were some unusual modifications made to it and there was an army gunner flying with a navy pilot the day it ditched. it hasn't been ascertained why it ditched.

That Helldiver was transported to the Pensacola NAS Naval Aviation Museum to be restored and placed on display at the museum. That is a rare old war bird. There is only one restored Helldiver in existence and it is in the Smithsonian. It was on loan to the Naval Aviation Museum for a while before being returned to the Smithsonian, so they are very happy to have the one found in California. It will take several years to restore, even though it was pretty much all there when found.

The Naval Aviation Museum is one of our major tourist attractions. Many carrier reunions are held there every year. It has a wooden flight deck from a WWII era carrier with WWII carrier planes on display. They have planes from all eras of naval aviation on static display, both inside the museum and outside. It is located right next to Sherman Field, home of the Blue Angels. It is worth the trip. Come see us.