Range Report w/ lever gun & pics, long post
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Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
- J Miller
- Member Emeritus
- Posts: 14885
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
- Location: Not in IL no more ... :)
Range Report w/ lever gun & pics, long post
I made it to the sauna .... 'er indoor range today. If it was hot and humid outside, and it was, it was much hotter and more humid inside. Oh man did I sweat my keester off! Sorry but this time there is no pics, I left my camera in the Pathfinder, and my regular photographer was at work.
Anyway, I had several loads to test, my Ruger Super Single-Six to shoot, and my 94AE with it's new trigger job to test fire.
...............................................
Winchester 94AE Trapper .45 Colt:
Last November I sent my two half cock lower tang assemblies to forum member SALVO to do trigger jobs on them. He had mentioned he'd done his in a thread just prior to that so I thought I'd ask. He got them finished and sent back to me towards the end of November '09. I tried both tangs and put in the one that felt the best. Then wiped the Trapper down and put it away. Today I dug it out and took it with me to the range.
I fired off my last 50 rounds loaded with AA 5744 and 5 rounds loaded with the 300gr Lee FN GC bullet over 21.5grs of H110.
The 5744 loads are quite accurate in my lever guns in spite of all the unburned powder that flies out when I eject the empties.
The 5 rounds of 300gr / H110 loads went into about 2.5" at 25 yards. Not a great group but then I wasn't really trying. It's a really nice bullet and load though and I will really wring it out good as soon as I get my casting equipment set up. I've got a mold for it. I was sweating so hard I really couldn't keep the rifle tight against my shoulder and my cheek kept sliding off the stock.
But I really got to tell you Scotts trigger job worked WONDERS for that little Trapper. It went from a rebounding hammer nightmare to a half cock with about a 5.5# pull to a nice crisp 2.75# pound pull. Ahhhhhh ... feels soooooo goood.
Round count: 3078, and nothings ever broken.
........................................................
Iver Johnson's imported Uberti Cattleman (IJ):
I put another 73 rounds through IJ. All of them were test loads of one sort or another. I was trying my very first bottle of IMR 4756. Never used it before and have wanted to. The load data came from several sources: DuPont loading data pamphlet circa 1975, Speer #8, and Hodgdons Annual Manual 2010. Powder charges ranged from 9.0 to 12.5grs with 255gr BBSWCs and fired by CCI # 300 primers.
The 9.0grs charge felt like a cowboy level load. Very mild.
10 grains was better, almost to the standard level.
11 grains was nice, just a bit more oomph than the standard loads.
12 grains felt like 9.0grs Unique feels.
12.5 grains really made IJ come alive.
I didn't shoot these for accuracy, just feel this time. For normal use in a Colt level revolver such as IJ 11 grs feels best. I think 10.5grs would be a good all around powder charge.
So I'll load a box up at that level and put it on paper for an accuracy test next time.
Another load I tested was 10.5grs of AA #5 under the Lee 452-255-RF bullet. I think this could be a good load, IF the bullet were seated out to 1.59" COAL rather than the 1.520" COAL it seats to if you crimp it in the crimp grove. The additional seating depth seemed to really raise the pressure and felt recoil above what this load normally produces. I've got a mold for it, but I doubt it will ever get used.
I don't know why this is, but IJ feels much much better in my hand, and is much easier to shoot than my OM Ruger BH. Is it the balance? The weight? The size? Or all of these things? I don't know. But I sure do like shooting it.
There is only one thing I must get fixed though. The cylinder is not fully rotated at half cock and the cases hang up on the upper edge of the loading port. I've got a new trigger and some advice on how to do the work, so it's now an official "Round-to-it".
Round Count: 594, nothings broke yet.
.................................................
Old Model Ruger Blackhawk BKH45:
My OM BH .45 got another 83 rounds through it today. 39 of those were .45 ACPs. Felt like I was shooting 38 WC ammo.
I tried same IMR 4756 loads through the Ruger as I did IJ. Felt pretty much the same. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot the 12.5gr load continously through the Ruger. I just don't feel safe using it as a steady diet through IJ. Strangely enough the 1975 DuPont loading data sheet that load comes from said it only produces 13,500 CUP and 930 fps from a 5.5" Test Barrel.
It could be I'm being too much of a worry wort too.
The other load I tested was the 300gr Lee FN GC bullet over 21.5grs of H110. This was a fairly sharp recoiling load and depending on how I held the gun gave me a pretty sharp rap to the knuckles. My one and only group turned in a pathetic 3.5" or so at 25 yards.
Of course there was an issue with my diopter. The recoil on that load was so sharp the diopter on my glasses kept shifting position. Made keeping a consistent sight picture difficult.
I'm not sure I want to shoot much of that H110 out of my Ruger. I've only shot 17 rounds loaded with H110 through it and already I'm seeing what looks to be erosion on the edges of the forcing cone. When I clean it I'll use my 18 power illuminated work goggles and if I'm seeing what it looks like I'm seeing, the H110 will be restricted to the rifles.
Round Count: 7740, nothings ever broken.
..................................................
OM Ruger .22 Super Single-Six:
The first pistol I shot today was my OM .22 Super Single-Six. I'd put new sights on it to see if a better sight picture would help my accuracy with it. They seemed to, although the new front sight is so much taller than the original I'll end up cranking the rear sight way up to compensate. So I've got more work to do on that one.
I think I need to make a .22 only range trip. Since I really don't like to shoot .22s they always get either ignored or left till I'm tired and sore. I fired a couple cylinders through it today, adjusted the sights and laid it aside. When I'd finished with the center fires I was shaking so hard shooting the .22 would have been a waste of time.
Round Count: Who knows?, I don't count .22s.
................................................
Also while at the range I found an example of why one should pay great attention to each step while reloading. Here is a reloaded .45 ACP round with a buggered up primer: It would appear to me as if the cartridge was loaded in a progressive loading machine and the operator got in a hurry. He didn't bother to inspect his ammo until he got to the range.
None of us here would be this careless ... would we?
.....................................................
As I was leaving I spied a bag of .45 Colt fired cases and tried to buy them. They were already sold ... RATS!
But as a consolation prize I found this box of CANUCK SV .22LR ammo. I haven't seen any of the Canadian ammo since the 70s. As a kid I used to shoot a lot of Dominion, CIL, Imperial, and CANUCK ammo. Rim fire and center fire. It was good ammo and great brass. I bought the box for my cartridge collection.
Joe
Anyway, I had several loads to test, my Ruger Super Single-Six to shoot, and my 94AE with it's new trigger job to test fire.
...............................................
Winchester 94AE Trapper .45 Colt:
Last November I sent my two half cock lower tang assemblies to forum member SALVO to do trigger jobs on them. He had mentioned he'd done his in a thread just prior to that so I thought I'd ask. He got them finished and sent back to me towards the end of November '09. I tried both tangs and put in the one that felt the best. Then wiped the Trapper down and put it away. Today I dug it out and took it with me to the range.
I fired off my last 50 rounds loaded with AA 5744 and 5 rounds loaded with the 300gr Lee FN GC bullet over 21.5grs of H110.
The 5744 loads are quite accurate in my lever guns in spite of all the unburned powder that flies out when I eject the empties.
The 5 rounds of 300gr / H110 loads went into about 2.5" at 25 yards. Not a great group but then I wasn't really trying. It's a really nice bullet and load though and I will really wring it out good as soon as I get my casting equipment set up. I've got a mold for it. I was sweating so hard I really couldn't keep the rifle tight against my shoulder and my cheek kept sliding off the stock.
But I really got to tell you Scotts trigger job worked WONDERS for that little Trapper. It went from a rebounding hammer nightmare to a half cock with about a 5.5# pull to a nice crisp 2.75# pound pull. Ahhhhhh ... feels soooooo goood.
Round count: 3078, and nothings ever broken.
........................................................
Iver Johnson's imported Uberti Cattleman (IJ):
I put another 73 rounds through IJ. All of them were test loads of one sort or another. I was trying my very first bottle of IMR 4756. Never used it before and have wanted to. The load data came from several sources: DuPont loading data pamphlet circa 1975, Speer #8, and Hodgdons Annual Manual 2010. Powder charges ranged from 9.0 to 12.5grs with 255gr BBSWCs and fired by CCI # 300 primers.
The 9.0grs charge felt like a cowboy level load. Very mild.
10 grains was better, almost to the standard level.
11 grains was nice, just a bit more oomph than the standard loads.
12 grains felt like 9.0grs Unique feels.
12.5 grains really made IJ come alive.
I didn't shoot these for accuracy, just feel this time. For normal use in a Colt level revolver such as IJ 11 grs feels best. I think 10.5grs would be a good all around powder charge.
So I'll load a box up at that level and put it on paper for an accuracy test next time.
Another load I tested was 10.5grs of AA #5 under the Lee 452-255-RF bullet. I think this could be a good load, IF the bullet were seated out to 1.59" COAL rather than the 1.520" COAL it seats to if you crimp it in the crimp grove. The additional seating depth seemed to really raise the pressure and felt recoil above what this load normally produces. I've got a mold for it, but I doubt it will ever get used.
I don't know why this is, but IJ feels much much better in my hand, and is much easier to shoot than my OM Ruger BH. Is it the balance? The weight? The size? Or all of these things? I don't know. But I sure do like shooting it.
There is only one thing I must get fixed though. The cylinder is not fully rotated at half cock and the cases hang up on the upper edge of the loading port. I've got a new trigger and some advice on how to do the work, so it's now an official "Round-to-it".
Round Count: 594, nothings broke yet.
.................................................
Old Model Ruger Blackhawk BKH45:
My OM BH .45 got another 83 rounds through it today. 39 of those were .45 ACPs. Felt like I was shooting 38 WC ammo.
I tried same IMR 4756 loads through the Ruger as I did IJ. Felt pretty much the same. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot the 12.5gr load continously through the Ruger. I just don't feel safe using it as a steady diet through IJ. Strangely enough the 1975 DuPont loading data sheet that load comes from said it only produces 13,500 CUP and 930 fps from a 5.5" Test Barrel.
It could be I'm being too much of a worry wort too.
The other load I tested was the 300gr Lee FN GC bullet over 21.5grs of H110. This was a fairly sharp recoiling load and depending on how I held the gun gave me a pretty sharp rap to the knuckles. My one and only group turned in a pathetic 3.5" or so at 25 yards.
Of course there was an issue with my diopter. The recoil on that load was so sharp the diopter on my glasses kept shifting position. Made keeping a consistent sight picture difficult.
I'm not sure I want to shoot much of that H110 out of my Ruger. I've only shot 17 rounds loaded with H110 through it and already I'm seeing what looks to be erosion on the edges of the forcing cone. When I clean it I'll use my 18 power illuminated work goggles and if I'm seeing what it looks like I'm seeing, the H110 will be restricted to the rifles.
Round Count: 7740, nothings ever broken.
..................................................
OM Ruger .22 Super Single-Six:
The first pistol I shot today was my OM .22 Super Single-Six. I'd put new sights on it to see if a better sight picture would help my accuracy with it. They seemed to, although the new front sight is so much taller than the original I'll end up cranking the rear sight way up to compensate. So I've got more work to do on that one.
I think I need to make a .22 only range trip. Since I really don't like to shoot .22s they always get either ignored or left till I'm tired and sore. I fired a couple cylinders through it today, adjusted the sights and laid it aside. When I'd finished with the center fires I was shaking so hard shooting the .22 would have been a waste of time.
Round Count: Who knows?, I don't count .22s.
................................................
Also while at the range I found an example of why one should pay great attention to each step while reloading. Here is a reloaded .45 ACP round with a buggered up primer: It would appear to me as if the cartridge was loaded in a progressive loading machine and the operator got in a hurry. He didn't bother to inspect his ammo until he got to the range.
None of us here would be this careless ... would we?
.....................................................
As I was leaving I spied a bag of .45 Colt fired cases and tried to buy them. They were already sold ... RATS!
But as a consolation prize I found this box of CANUCK SV .22LR ammo. I haven't seen any of the Canadian ammo since the 70s. As a kid I used to shoot a lot of Dominion, CIL, Imperial, and CANUCK ammo. Rim fire and center fire. It was good ammo and great brass. I bought the box for my cartridge collection.
Joe
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Last edited by J Miller on Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: Range Report w/ a lever gun too-long post
Nice trip to the range and report! Where's the pics?
I have wondered if you tried the trigger jobs out yet and am happy it's an improvement!
I have wondered if you tried the trigger jobs out yet and am happy it's an improvement!
ScottS
"No arsenal, no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women."
-- Ronald Reagan
"No arsenal, no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women."
-- Ronald Reagan
- J Miller
- Member Emeritus
- Posts: 14885
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
- Location: Not in IL no more ... :)
Re: Range Report w/ a lever gun too-long post
Scott,
Like I said at the top, I left the camera in the Pathfinder and didn't get any. Would scans of bullet holes in the targets work?
Oh that trigger job .... ahhhhhh Like night and day difference. I think I'll be shooting that ole Trapper a bit more now. I've been ignoring it because of the heavy trigger. But no more. Since I've gotten the tangs back from you this is the first time I've had the Trapper to the range. Only the second time I've been to the range this year.
Look out Lucky Ned Pepper, here I come ... whooo hoooo!
That was kind of silly wasn't it?
Joe
Like I said at the top, I left the camera in the Pathfinder and didn't get any. Would scans of bullet holes in the targets work?
Oh that trigger job .... ahhhhhh Like night and day difference. I think I'll be shooting that ole Trapper a bit more now. I've been ignoring it because of the heavy trigger. But no more. Since I've gotten the tangs back from you this is the first time I've had the Trapper to the range. Only the second time I've been to the range this year.
Look out Lucky Ned Pepper, here I come ... whooo hoooo!
That was kind of silly wasn't it?
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
- J Miller
- Member Emeritus
- Posts: 14885
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
- Location: Not in IL no more ... :)
Re: Range Report w/ lever gun & pics, long post
OK, guys, I went to range, did an ON topic post, and all but SALVO ignored it. So I've added a couple pics for you. Maybe that will help.
Joe
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: Range Report w/ lever gun & pics, long post
Good post, Joe!OK, guys, I went to range, did an ON topic post, and all but SALVO ignored it. So I've added a couple pics for you. Maybe that will help.
Joe
BTW, I've spent two days out at the ranch running a welding machine and my tail was too tuckered to get much done on a computer when I got home. It's still draggin'.
The guys that make their living on one of those definately have my respect.
- J Miller
- Member Emeritus
- Posts: 14885
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
- Location: Not in IL no more ... :)
Re: Range Report w/ lever gun & pics, long post
20cows,20cows wrote:Good post, Joe!OK, guys, I went to range, did an ON topic post, and all but SALVO ignored it. So I've added a couple pics for you. Maybe that will help.
Joe
BTW, I've spent two days out at the ranch running a welding machine and my tail was too tuckered to get much done on a computer when I got home. It's still draggin'.
The guys that make their living on one of those definately have my respect.
What did you build with the welder? I got a friend in AZ that has an ark welder and he fabricates all sorts of things.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
- Ysabel Kid
- Moderator
- Posts: 27918
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:10 pm
- Location: South Carolina, USA
- Contact:
Re: Range Report w/ lever gun & pics, long post
A day late and dollar short for me Joe. First time to the forum in a couple of days. Will post why later - don't want to hijack your fine post! Congrats on the range time, hot as it was!J Miller wrote:OK, guys, I went to range, did an ON topic post, and all but SALVO ignored it. So I've added a couple pics for you. Maybe that will help.
Joe
Re: Range Report w/ lever gun & pics, long post
Very nice Joe! That Winchester .45 would be an absolute perfect Deer Hunting Gun in my Neck of the woods! Would love to get one just like it some day!
Re: Range Report w/ lever gun & pics, long post
We're rebuilding cattle working pens. There have been pens here in one configuration or another for over a hundred years. My uncle altered them somewhat for sheep as he got older as they was easier for him and one dog to handle. Their age and the alterations make it a dicy proposition to work cattle. I even had a cow get herself wedged in a narrow lane (on her own) so bad I had to cut her out with a torch (cowboy "jaws of life"?).
I think I spent half of those two days welding on my knees and a good bit if the rest on a ladder. Sure don't want any of that stuff to come loose.
I think I spent half of those two days welding on my knees and a good bit if the rest on a ladder. Sure don't want any of that stuff to come loose.
Re: Range Report w/ lever gun & pics, long post
I was so jealous I couldn't bring myself to post...
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
- J Miller
- Member Emeritus
- Posts: 14885
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
- Location: Not in IL no more ... :)
Re: Range Report w/ lever gun & pics, long post
Bigahh,Bigahh wrote:Very nice Joe! That Winchester .45 would be an absolute perfect Deer Hunting Gun in my Neck of the woods! Would love to get one just like it some day!
I got this one in 86. It was the first one I'd seen in person since I saw them advertised in the 85 Winchester catalog. Since then I've seen only a few like mine: color cased receiver and skinny barrel, but several of the later ones. All blued with the heavy barrel.
I've had a lot of fun with this one. It's one of the three Winchesters on my list to NEVER part with.
That's OK. I guess I was kind of stressed out because of our little sick kitty. Will be reading your post in a bit.Ysabel Kid wrote:<snip>
A day late and dollar short for me Joe. First time to the forum in a couple of days. Will post why later - don't want to hijack your fine post! Congrats on the range time, hot as it was!
20cows,20cows wrote:We're rebuilding cattle working pens. There have been pens here in one configuration or another for over a hundred years. My uncle altered them somewhat for sheep as he got older as they was easier for him and one dog to handle. Their age and the alterations make it a dicy proposition to work cattle. I even had a cow get herself wedged in a narrow lane (on her own) so bad I had to cut her out with a torch (cowboy "jaws of life"?).
I think I spent half of those two days welding on my knees and a good bit if the rest on a ladder. Sure don't want any of that stuff to come loose.
Cattle make good meat and mile, but I've never been impressed by their IQ. Seems they sometimes go out of their way to cause us humans trouble.
Rebuilding something old that has been altered and rebuilt before has to be a major pain in the behind. It would probably be easier to start fresh and build a new one.
Wow, if I'm not careful comments like that will give me a swelled head.Hobie wrote:I was so jealous I couldn't bring myself to post...
..............................................
Sorry for the grumpy post above, I shouldn't post things like that.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***