Replica and Import lever quality?

[Canuck Bob]

I am very interested in picking up my next and maybe last lever action. Therefore I want to research the different imported lever actions.

I'm looking at good to excellent fit and finish, top quality firearms. No plastic parts and accurate barrels in a short action gun for pistol length cases. However they don't need to be capable of hot magnum pressures. I read somewhere that some of the 1873 replicas are nice guns but limited in safe pressure levels. No problem as this is for a fun gun with iron sights and the remote possibility of whitetail deer hunting.

Research has me leaning toward the 1894 Marlin but what about the Ubertis, Ross', and the Euro clones?

[Hankster]

I've got a Rossi/Braztech model 92 in .357..and I like it a lot!! As to the others, I've got an Uberti 58 Remington BP revolver copy, and a Uberti SSA copy, both are very good quality.. as to their rifles, I'll let these other guys jump in on those, I do not have one,,, YET!! LOL!!

[Griff]

Here's what I said back in Jul of '08 in response to a similar question. His was about CAS guns, but... since the guns aren't really different, mainly it's the ammo, the answer remain the same.

As far as strength, as long as you stay away from "+P" levels in the toggle links (1860 Henry, '66 & '73), they're all safe for SAAMI specs. If you handload, hotroddin' I'd leave to the Marlin 1894, Winchester 94 & the modern 1892 clones... mainly that last'n!

Ditto on draggin' yer carcass outta virtual world and to a real live cowboy action match. If you're politely inquisitive you'll probably have to push offers to show ya why theirs is best offen ya!

In almost no particular order of preference (you'll be able to figure out mine from the fact that I own 3 Rossi, a Uberti '73 and 30 Winchester 94s - though all of those are in .30-30).

The Winchester 1894/94 was first introduced in 1894 in .32-40 and .38-55, and heralded the ubiquitious .30WCF (.30-30) of deer hunting fame. It's a wonderful rifle and cartridge combination, suitable for many activities... as would be expected of a sporting rifle that's sold nearly 7 million copies over its 112 production run. (Continuous if you discount the war stoppages). It was first introduced in a pistol length cartridge in 1969 in the .44 Remington Magnum. However, bullet shapes of the time limited its viability (IMO) and it was shelved for a time. In 1983 it underwent its first redesign (of major significance - again discounting some internal changes and material changes), being re-tooled into the Angle Eject model (Winchester 94AE). 1985 saw its chambering in .45 Colt, the FIRST levergun so chambered. IMO, it has some drawbacks in the shorter cartridge lengths; 1st, its overall length, due in part to the length necessary to cycle cartridges in the .30-30 class. 2nd, its action - the fact that its "guts" fall out every time you cycle the lever; this isn't a problem for the hunter nor target shooter, but... when speed is the essence, it provides for a "3-step" feel to the action; it can be reduced by lightening the springs and smoothing the action, but... in truth, the validity of my statement can be found in the fact that no top shooters use this model in competition, (that I'm aware of...). 3rdly, and it shares this feature with the Rossi, Marlin and "Big Boy"; the cartridge is removed from the magazine onto a lifter that then raises up on an angle and is then shoved into the chamber by the bolt and must transistion that angular attitude back to the horizontal. This limits the selection of bullet shapes to allow smooth, consistent and reliable feeding.

The Marlin 1894 is basically unchanged from its introduction; with the addition of a cross bolt safety. It is currently the ONLY US produced historically accurate levergun. Check out their website for current chamberings and versions (rifle/carbine & barrel lengths). This is one of two low cost selections you have. Their quality has been spotty, but... from everything I've heard, and direct assurances from their CEO, if you have a problem, return and they WILL MAKE IT RIGHT. And, I've seen cases where they've done just that.

The Rossi '92 is marketed in this country by a couple of companies, most notably: LSI sells the "PUMA" while EMF sells the "HARTFORD". This is the other low-cost option, and in my opinion (shared by some others) the stronger action that is factory chambered in a couple of pretty hefty rounds, the 454 Casull being one. However, the actions as shipped are fairly heavy, gritty and require some "cleanin' up" to smooth 'em out and make them as sweet as any vintage Winchester 1892 you will find. A couple of guys specialize in this work, and at least one ( Steve's Gunz) will take your order, do the necessary action work and ship you a completely "race ready" gun for not much more than the basic gun would cost you at any other shop. And, if you're rather handy with screwdriver, file, stones and can follow instructions, you can do similar work yourself and save a few sheckles more. Check out Rifle Tuning. This site also includes tuning tips for the Marlin and Winchester 94 rifles.

As mentioned before, the Uberti Henry, '66 "Yellow Boy", and 1873 Winchester clones are probably the most popular rifles in cowboy action shooting as they have the smoothest actions, are very friendly to short stroke kits (as defined legal in SASS rules) and feeding is straight forward so a variety of bullet sizes and weights are easily fed and digested. However, a "race-ready" version will set you back more than what an original will cost. But... you will have a historically accurate and very viable rifle for either re-enacting or cowboy action shooting. (B-westerns aside, VERY few Winchester '92s ever saw action during the War of Northern Agression!)

You will note that I've saved the only other option for last... as is appropriate in my opinion, for it would be my last choice for either re-enacting (I don't like getting laughed at), cowboy action shooting (speed is a factor, and heavy cumbersome actions are not conducive to this activity) or for hunting (it's action strength is an unknown - at least to me). The Henry "Big Boy" is available in .357, .45 Colt and .44 Magnum, but... it is a front-end loader, ala 9422 Winchester and Marlin 39A models. IMO, this is an issue with loading safety and handling around crowded loading tables. Others will point out its ability to unload thru the magazine tube and not having to work each round thru the chamber to unload... well, I prefer to unload mine thru the action... pulling the trigger to expend those expensive shells I spent hours developing and loading!

But, hey! Those are just my observations and opinions developed over a little more than 20 years of cowboy action shooting and 36 years of levergun shooting. And, we all know what they're like... worth exactly what you paid for 'em.

Now 25 years of CAS and 38 of leverguns!

Added since original post: I do have to amend what I said about the modern copies of the Winchester 1892. The Rossi/Braztech is now owned by Taurus, and I understand that while under Braztech they've retooled and are much better than just a few short years ago. Also, LSI now has their "PUMA" built by ArmiSport of Italy. It's a very pretty gun, whose fit & finish might outshine the Rossi, but... the action is different and possibly as I've heard, some parts not as robust. As Steve sez, Rossi has been building the '92 clone longer than anyone... and that has to count for some expertise. Earlier, I stated to not use the "+P" ammo in the toggle links... I was mainly thinking of the 1860 brass framed Henrys and 1866 clones in .38 Special. While the steel versions of the Henry and '73 are good for it... the brass frames might be subjected to some stretch if they were fed these much hotter versions of a good round. IMO, you would be way ahead to stick to steel receivers in you intend to hunt with the rifle. Any of the cartridges the 1873 came in would be adequate for deer (aye gawd they've been adequate since they came out)! But, hunting skills and approriate ranges for accurate shooting must remain in mind.

[.45colt]

"excellent fit and finish" "good quality""fun gun". deer hunting. the one that came to mind is a model '73 Uberti short rifle in .357mag. Good Luck with Your search.
http://www.uberti.com/firearms/images/1 ... fle_lg.jpg

[Martini450]

Hello everyone, it's been quite a while since I've been on line. Sorry for the absence; not enough hours in the day!

I have an Uberti '73 in 44-40 with the 30" tube, and it is one of my favorite guns. Fit and finish is better than anything in my cabinet that's been made in the last fifty years, and my handloads will put five shots into an inch at 75 yards from the bench (gotta love that long sight radius!). For hunting, you'd probably be better served with the 24" barrel. Of course, you don't want to try hot ammunition in the '73 action, but you don't need to. Keep the shots within the range for which the gun was intended, and the 44-40 or 357 should treat you fine. As far as the fun factor goes, the '73 is just really hard to beat.

Of course, none of this means I don't want one of the Italian '92s, just to be sure...

[salvo]

I have a Rossi "Puma" 92 in .357, a Marlin 1894CB in .357 and a Winchester 94AE .44 Mag. Fit and finish would have to go to the Marlin.
If I were looking for the best fit and finish I would hunt down a used Browning 92 in either .357 or .44

[RIHMFIRE]

hard to beat uberti....

[willygene]

the fit and finish on my uberti 73 is far superior to any of the other guns in my case except for one or two from the 30's and 40s' that were made when guns were made right. the wood to metal fit is excellent the bluing is excellent as are the color case colors on the receiver and lever, no tool marks anywhere.

[Canuck Bob]

There is more to this question than I thought!

I found a Canadian supplier of Chapparal Arms 1873 replicas, any opinions?

Same supplier offers the Armi Sport Win 92 in a take down model that might interest me, opinions? Griff's fine post above discusses possible issue with these guns. They are very expensive, listed over $1100 and $1260 in the TD.

Some replicas are made of brass but it appears the originals or Browning replica 92s are made of gold!

What abour Pedersolli quality?

[brno602]

I will guess at the Canadian dealer Marstar? they are good to deal with, however I could not fit such a $$$ gun in my plans so I bought a Rossi 45 colt good strong hunting gun For around 480cdn. I have tested it to the max lol and then some. But there is a fly on it you cant get anything for them up here hard to put a scope on it I do like a scope for hunting gophers The importer down in the states could give a rats a** about sending you anything like a scope mount! I do worry 10 or 20 years down the road what do I do if something breaks? But then who knows if Marlin will be around in 10 or 20 years.
Don't get me wrong my Rossi shoots great is stronger than a Marlin and more trim too. Just saying you can't go wrong with a Marlin.

[Griff]

There is more to this question than I thought!
I found a Canadian supplier of Chapparal Arms 1873 replicas, any opinions?

Chapparal got a fairly bad rap in their original 1876 replica entry to the American market. Wildly different quality. From very poor to excellent. Unfortunately, the very poor were terrible. Specs way out. Most were, as I understand resolved, but often the rifle had to be simply, replaced. I don't think there's been enough of the '73 sold to really make a judgement on that model. They sure are GOOD LOOKIN' tho'!

Same supplier offers the Armi Sport Win 92 in a take down model that might interest me, opinions? Griff's fine post above discusses possible issue with these guns. They are very expensive, listed over $1100 and $1260 in the TD.

Check out Nate Kiowa Jones posts on the mdl '92, [url=www.stevesgunz.com=Steve's Gunz[/url] or email him and ask directly if you can't find it in s search.

Some replicas are made of brass but it appears the originals or Browning replica 92s are made of gold!

Price wise you'd think so. Actually, in most of the replicas, that brass color is either a gunmetal or a plating... Some are even just a gold wash, as is my wife's Rossi. I just have my doubts about how they hold up over the long haul. If it's plating or a wash over steel, then I wouldn't worry about it... but a brass or the brass "gunmetal", I shy away. There's got to be a reason they don't offer the .357 & .44 Mag in the brass framed Henry or the 1866.

What abour Pedersolli quality?

Pedersoli's are generally great. I just haven't seen where they're in the levergun business.

For fit & finish, I think the Uberti's are hard to beat. I have a 1873 that 25 years old and still going great... It's in .45 Colt & I'd hunt with it with factory ammo, or even some of my handloads... but I just wouldn't exceed standard factory velocities.

[J Miller]

I am very interested in picking up my next and maybe last lever action. Therefore I want to research the different imported lever actions.

I'm looking at good to excellent fit and finish, top quality firearms. No plastic parts and accurate barrels in a short action gun for pistol length cases. However they don't need to be capable of hot magnum pressures. I read somewhere that some of the 1873 replicas are nice guns but limited in safe pressure levels. No problem as this is for a fun gun with iron sights and the remote possibility of whitetail deer hunting.

Research has me leaning toward the 1894 Marlin but what about the Ubertis, Ross', and the Euro clones?

Bob,
If I were purchase a fun / hunting gun that was different but chambered for a cartridge that I could use for hunting, and I had the wherewithal, I'd buy an Uberti 1873 rifle in either 44-40 or .45 Colt. 44-40 being the first choice. I've handled them, drooled over them, but never had the funds to make one mine.

Currently I've got a Marlin 1894 CB in .45 Colt and it's a gem. I have few complaints about it, and those are just picking nits.
I've owned a Win 94AE Trapper since 1986 and have several thousand rounds through it. It's more accurate than I am and the important part is nothing has ever broke.
At one time I had a Rossi Puma in .45 Colt that was a LEMON. I got it NIB, unfired and it would not function. It would not feed anything through the action. I had to send it back to M&M to be fixed before I could even use it. After that it kept breaking so I finally got rid of it.
................................................
As for parts, get them now. If you think you need spares, call the appropriate people and get them.

I have extras for each version of Winchester 94s. Nothing's ever broke. Since 1966 when I got my very first Win 1894 NOTHING has ever broke on any of my 94s.
I expect the same thing from my Marlin.

Call VTI for Uberti parts, or Browning for Winchester, or NateKiowaJones for Rossi and Uberti and Marlin for Marlin. Get 'em now.

The thing is, properly used and maintained lever guns are almost indestructible. You can wear them out, but most wear comes from lack of lube, dirt and grit.

Joe

[Grizzly Adams]

There is more to this question than I thought!

I found a Canadian supplier of Chapparal Arms 1873 replicas, any opinions?

Forgetaboutit! The bitter taste of a bargain lingers long after the sweetness.

Buy an Uberti 73.

[Ysabel Kid]

I am very interested in picking up my next and maybe last lever action.

Say it isn't so!

[Canuck Bob]

I am very interested in picking up my next and maybe last lever action.

Say it isn't so!

Maybe, time creeps on and so does my arthritis. I'm looking to thin out my safe and move away from hunting guns. What I want now are interesting and fun guns but only a few.

1 flintlock, got it, .54 Lyman lefty Deerstalker
1 classy centerfire, got it coming, Ruger #1 303 Brit
1 22LR, sell off and trade for a Marlin 39A
1 small caliber or pistol caliber lever, working on that with this thread

That may be the end. I can load and cast for 2 guns only, shoot alot, and control costs. My current collection will fund everything without a burden on the family budget. Well maybe a small burden after spotting the Winchester 92 Trapper Takedown on the WRA site!

We adopted two beautiful little girls from China starting on my 50th birthday and we committed to keeping mom at home. Its not easy so things are getting slimmed down as the girls grow.

[Ysabel Kid]

We adopted two beautiful little girls from China starting on my 50th birthday and we committed to keeping mom at home. Its not easy so things are getting slimmed down as the girls grow.

Good for you. What a positive change for those young girls!

[AJMD429]

We adopted two beautiful little girls from China starting on my 50th birthday and we committed to keeping mom at home. Its not easy so things are getting slimmed down as the girls grow.

Just make sure that you accept the fact that part of parenting is teaching about freedom, and about survival. Those little girls may be around for nearly a century of 'future' that could test their mettle; whether or not they wind up as slaves or freepersons could depend on their understanding of our Constitution, and ability to protect themselves from not only criminals but despots and anarchy, as well as survive economic hardship.

The guns (and ammunition) you purchase NOW should reflect those priorities, even more so than your recreational interests. You want your girls to carry on whatever the future holds...!

[Canuck Bob]

My girls will be strong and independent. Thier mom is a sweet gal, full of love and patience. Thier dad is as tough as nails and comes from a line of pioneer woman. My family homesteaded in northern Alberta after the dust bowl of the depression forced them out of southern Saskatchewan. Thier maternal family are tough gals who survived the last World War as youths in Germany.

I am politically active in our Province and would be the Republican equivalent here. They will understand responsibility to family and country. And be nurtured to find God's Will for them and then supported to carry it out.

This parenting is serious work, more than I imagined. Any man who has a family and sits around wondering what his purpose in life is, is just plain brain dead or evil. Sorry to be so preachy.

[Canuck Bob]

Back to some serious business. Thanks to everyone for thier advice and teaching regarding these little lever actions.

I should let you what I've decided after all your support.

Marlin 1894 for me. Price and availability here in Canada narrowed it down to the Rossi 92 or Marlin 94. My 444 has been a flawless operating accurate rifle for over 30 years. I trust the Marlin and it is made in the US. I try to buy Canadian first, then US, and then Europe when I can.

I would have chosen a pistol grip from either company but niether rifles come that way. Both rifles would be fine and probably require the same amount of tuning and the Winchester is so pretty. Maybe the Marlin will be my second last lever?

[AJMD429]

Yep. Being a parent totally changes your priorities. Glad to see you're on the same page.

As a father of three girls, I've found that for a normal-sized female, it is hard to beat the Marlin 1894c .357 Mag as a practical gun. In part, because a 'companion' .357 Mag revolver (using .38 Special light loads at first) can go with it.

I've got one daughter who is a 'gun' person, and she's already into a .44 Mag levergun (got her first deer last fall with it), and my son is into anything that makes noise and smoke and recoil, but for the other two 'artsy-fartsy' girls, I intend them to leave home having the skills to shoot, and 'equipped' with the following:

• Levergun in .22 LR (Ruger 96/22) and handgun to match (Ruger Mk-II or Single-Six, or Taurus .22 DA Revolver)
  Levergun in .357 Mag (Marlin 1894c or Puma 92) and handgun to match (Taurus or Charter Arms .38 Special, most likely)

Sounds like you have a good plan, and your daughters will be lucky to grow under your tutelage.

[Canuck Bob]

The girls are 6 and 8. I bought them a Stevens Model 30 Takedown 22 to learn on. We are adding a basement range for the good old Daisy BB, really for Dad! I think for thier moving out presents it will be Stoeger SXS 20 Gauge coach guns. Barb and I both were members of the Canadian Armed Forces when younger so the girls will get proper attack training.

[Bruce Scott]

I think an Uberti built 73 in .44WCF would be just the thing.

http://www.uberti.com/firearms/1873_rif ... arbine.php


Uberti 1873 Short Rifle. Case-colored receiver, A-grade walnut & 20" octagonal barrel.

I had one in .357 Mag - a beautifully made rifle and very accurate.

[the telegraphist]

Uberti 1873 in 44WCF, I own one and it is faultless, fit/finish excellent with 24 inch Octagonal barrel. It shoots as good as it looks. One in 38/40 is also on the agenda.