OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

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OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by Ysabel Kid »

I know - I know, why not ask that forum? Well, I don't belong to any other forums, and have found that if you ask a question here, regardless of the topic, someone usually has an informed answer! :D

I have a hex-receiver M91/30 Mosin Nagant bolt-action rifle in, what else, 7.62x54R. Purchased it over 20 years ago. I was looking at it when snapping the "military longarms" photo to respond to Jeremy's post, and was wondering about the receiver markings. It does not have much. Looks like an "S Y" over a "D", and that is over a triangle, pointing down, with a "T" in it. I have always assumed it was manufactured in the Tula arsenal. Anyone know for sure, or have a good (and easy) website they use for reference?

Thanks!

YK
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by Hobie »

Hex? :wink:
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by cshold »

Ysabel Kid wrote:I know - I know, why not ask that forum? Well, I don't belong to any other forums, and have found that if you ask a question here, regardless of the topic, someone usually has an informed answer! :D

I have a hex-receiver M91/30 Mosin Nagant bolt-action rifle in, what else, 7.62x54R. Purchased it over 20 years ago. I was looking at it when snapping the "military longarms" photo to respond to Jeremy's post, and was wondering about the receiver markings. It does not have much. Looks like an "S Y" over a "D", and that is over a triangle, pointing down, with a "T" in it. I have always assumed it was manufactured in the Tula arsenal. Anyone know for sure, or have a good (and easy) website they use for reference?

Thanks!

YK
A+1 I whole heartedly agree. :D
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the topic title anyway. :wink:
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Hobie wrote:Hex? :wink:
Hexagonal. Some of the early Mosin Nagant receivers were hexagonal in shape. Latter ones were round. The hexagonal ones normally carry a slight premium.
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by Hobie »

Looks like an octagonal form to me as the top is flat... :wink: I just checked, you know, just in case and mine is...
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by SteveR »

Ysabel Kid wrote:I know - I know, why not ask that forum? Well, I don't belong to any other forums, and have found that if you ask a question here, regardless of the topic, someone usually has an informed answer! :D

I have a hex-receiver M91/30 Mosin Nagant bolt-action rifle in, what else, 7.62x54R. Purchased it over 20 years ago. I was looking at it when snapping the "military longarms" photo to respond to Jeremy's post, and was wondering about the receiver markings. It does not have much. Looks like an "S Y" over a "D", and that is over a triangle, pointing down, with a "T" in it. I have always assumed it was manufactured in the Tula arsenal. Anyone know for sure, or have a good (and easy) website they use for reference?

Thanks!

YK
Hi,

If it is the one in your picture from JReed's post, it looks like a Finnish M28. The T in a triangle is the Tikka Finnish armory mark. The Finn's took Russian and US made M91 receivers and built up their own rifles with them.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM28.htm

They are very, very good shooters, yours will probably slug out at .30 groove .308 lands. It has the D mark, so the Finnish armorers opened up the throat to take the Russian 7.62x54r that is .310.

Steve
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by Old Ironsights »

Still waiting to get a full 2-day weekend available to take my 1945 Round Reciever 91/30 out and see where it hits...
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by Ysabel Kid »

SteveR wrote:
Ysabel Kid wrote:I know - I know, why not ask that forum? Well, I don't belong to any other forums, and have found that if you ask a question here, regardless of the topic, someone usually has an informed answer! :D

I have a hex-receiver M91/30 Mosin Nagant bolt-action rifle in, what else, 7.62x54R. Purchased it over 20 years ago. I was looking at it when snapping the "military longarms" photo to respond to Jeremy's post, and was wondering about the receiver markings. It does not have much. Looks like an "S Y" over a "D", and that is over a triangle, pointing down, with a "T" in it. I have always assumed it was manufactured in the Tula arsenal. Anyone know for sure, or have a good (and easy) website they use for reference?

Thanks!

YK
Hi,

If it is the one in your picture from JReed's post, it looks like a Finnish M28. The T in a triangle is the Tikka Finnish armory mark. The Finn's took Russian and US made M91 receivers and built up their own rifles with them.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM28.htm

They are very, very good shooters, yours will probably slug out at .30 groove .308 lands. It has the D mark, so the Finnish armorers opened up the throat to take the Russian 7.62x54r that is .310.

Steve
Steve - you nailed it! That is exactly the one I have.

Upon closer examination, I discovered that the bolt body was produced by Remington, and the cocking knob came from Izhevsk. The original importer was Marathon Products, Inc.

Thanks!

YK
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by SteveR »

YK,

Your are very welcome, if you do shoot it with surplus ammo, wash the bore, bolt, chamber, magazine well, and magazine with water, right after shooting. I bring a gallon jug of water and a small funnel with me to the range, when done shooting using the funnel dump water down the bore, remove magazine dump some down there, wash the bolt and magazine, done. Takes longe to type than to do. I run a couple of patches with Hoppe's down the barrel right after the water, also wipe down the bolt, magazine, and magazine well. I can gareentee if you dont wash the corrosive salts from the primers, you will have rust in the bore and anywhere the fowling gets on the metal.

Very cool about the Remington bolt body, if you take it out of the wood, on the bottom of the receiver tang is usually the maker of the Hex receiver, although many of the Finn's I have have been "scrubbed", sometimes there are some more markings on the receiver and you can figure out who made it.

I am curious the barrel will be marked with the date in a diamond on the bottom of the barrel, if you do take it out of the wood, would you please let me know the date. And also if it has the spring on the trigger, mine didn't and not many people I have talked to have had the spring on the trigger.

If you have more questions please let me know, there is a ton of markings and variations on Mosin Nagants, and it can be overwhelming sometimes, but it is very interesting. I really got hooked on collecting the Mosin Nagant rifles, but more folks have been collecting to, makes finding them harder.

txpete might chime in on this thread, he is really up on Mosin Nagants and other military guns.

Good luck with that M28, its a very desirable collectors item!! Not many show up for sale.

Steve
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by SteveR »

Old Ironsights wrote:Still waiting to get a full 2-day weekend available to take my 1945 Round Reciever 91/30 out and see where it hits...
So, how was cleaning off the cosmoline??? :lol: :twisted:

Be sure to clean with water after shooting the surplus stuff. What arenal made it, Tula or Izhevsk?

Steve
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by jnyork »

These things are a hoot. You always need to slug the bore, there is about .006-.008 difference in the various bore dimensions, although the Finns are pretty much right on .308. On the Ruskies, especially if the bore is not so hot in the first place, you can load up the 123 grain (?) bullets for the AK47, there are .310 and shoot very well using a lighter load and wont kick you over the moon. If the bore is closer to .308, then you can shoot the 150 grain USGI bullets and do ok. The fun is in the plinking type shooting, full loads are not what you would call enjoyable after 8 or 10 rounds. If you are shooting the military ammo, keep in mind the sights are calibrated for have the bayonet installed.
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by Ysabel Kid »

SteveR wrote:YK,

Your are very welcome, if you do shoot it with surplus ammo, wash the bore, bolt, chamber, magazine well, and magazine with water, right after shooting. I bring a gallon jug of water and a small funnel with me to the range, when done shooting using the funnel dump water down the bore, remove magazine dump some down there, wash the bolt and magazine, done. Takes longe to type than to do. I run a couple of patches with Hoppe's down the barrel right after the water, also wipe down the bolt, magazine, and magazine well. I can gareentee if you dont wash the corrosive salts from the primers, you will have rust in the bore and anywhere the fowling gets on the metal.

Very cool about the Remington bolt body, if you take it out of the wood, on the bottom of the receiver tang is usually the maker of the Hex receiver, although many of the Finn's I have have been "scrubbed", sometimes there are some more markings on the receiver and you can figure out who made it.

I am curious the barrel will be marked with the date in a diamond on the bottom of the barrel, if you do take it out of the wood, would you please let me know the date. And also if it has the spring on the trigger, mine didn't and not many people I have talked to have had the spring on the trigger.

If you have more questions please let me know, there is a ton of markings and variations on Mosin Nagants, and it can be overwhelming sometimes, but it is very interesting. I really got hooked on collecting the Mosin Nagant rifles, but more folks have been collecting to, makes finding them harder.

txpete might chime in on this thread, he is really up on Mosin Nagants and other military guns.

Good luck with that M28, its a very desirable collectors item!! Not many show up for sale.

Steve
Steve -

I just got dumb lucky on this one. Years ago - a bit over 20 - a buddy at work with an FFL saw an ad in one of the gun rags - I think it might have been "Shotgun News" for the Mosin-Nagants. If you bought 5 of them they were only $49 each. He approached me, knowing my hobby, and we rounded up three other guys (he wanted one too). When they arrived they were coated with cosmoline and wrapped, so each guy just picked one without inspection. One of the guys picked one that I swear looked like it had never been touched. Mine was a bit rough, but better than a couple others. Thanks for the advice on cleaning it. I have shot mine in the past and cleaned it promptly upon getting home, with no signs of rust.

I take it the M28 is simply the Finnish version of the M91/30?

Thanks again!

YK
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by awp101 »

Ysabel Kid wrote:I take it the M28 is simply the Finnish version of the M91/30?
They were generally rebuilt by the Finns from the 91s and 91/30s. Sometime in the 60's IIRC, the Finns "agreed" to stop rebuilding them after pressure by the Soviets. They continued to do so anyway and those are known as "sneaks".
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by SteveR »

Ysabel Kid wrote: I take it the M28 is simply the Finnish version of the M91/30?YK
YK,

This is a quick version of the Mosin Nagant M91/30, pleas excuse the run-on sentences and grammar errors;

Finland was lost to Russia from Sweden, but were mostly left to their own customs and ran their own Government, including their own language, when the Reds started the revolution in 1917 the Finn's took the opportunity and succeeded from Russia. During the time they were part of Russia they had used Russian rifles and other equipment.

The M1891 or Three Line Rifle of 1891, was the standard rifle of Russia, or more commonly the M91. It took a few years to bring Russian machining up to the task of production numbers needed for rearming the Russian army. So Russian contracted out with the US and France to build M91, that is why you see receivers from other countries.

As time went on the USSR found that the M91's length was cumbersome, so the barrel was shortened and was Know as the Dragoon, then the sights were changed out and it became the M91/30.

The Finn's realized that the M91 was too long also, plus the accuracy of the long thin Russian barrels was not up to their standard, so the M91 barrels replaced with ones made in Germany or Switzerland, which are also known as the M24 or “Lotta” rifles for the Civil Guard.

Next was the M27 which used shortened barrels made by Germany, Belgium, and the Swiss. This was issued to the standard army.

The M28 is almost the same as the M27. but the barrel is .30 grooves and .308 lands, it was built for the Civil Guard. All of the other rifles were made to be standard as the Russian at .310 across the lands.

The next was the 28/30 which is a prize to find!! Basically the M28 with better rear leaf sight.

The last is the great M39, which is the final design and one most accurate military rifles produced.

Steve
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by SteveR »

awp101 wrote: Sometime in the 60's IIRC, the Finns "agreed" to stop rebuilding them after pressure by the Soviets. They continued to do so anyway and those are known as "sneaks".
Hi,

Where did you hear this from? As part of the peace accord after the Continuation War, the Russians forced the Finn's to give up many of the captured 91/30's and disband the Civil Guard. But that was in 1944. The Finn's continued to build and rebuild M39's through the 1950's.

From what I can find, the "sneaks" were nothing more than using up spare parts in the 1960's.

Steve
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by awp101 »

SteveR wrote: From what I can find, the "sneaks" were nothing more than using up spare parts in the 1960's.
That may well be the case. It's entirely possible I mis-remembered as it's been a while since I read up on MNs and they were never at the top of my collecting list. Plus I was working on just my first cup of coffee for the day... :lol:

I knew the 1960s date had something to do with it though. :mrgreen:
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by SteveR »

awp101,

Oh, I know what you mean, I know there has been some questions about the 60's builds, but not a lot out there, other than the using of left over parts. I'm always am looking for more on the MN's.

Thanks,
Steve
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Used my C&R today to pick up another one - this one a Tula M91/30. Will clean it up and post pictures of it shortly. This one is for Y2K when he hits the age. He'll eventually get all of mine anyway, but I'd like to hang around for a few more years before he does!
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Re: OT - M91/30 Mosin Nagant question

Post by SteveR »

Ysabel Kid wrote:Used my C&R today to pick up another one - this one a Tula M91/30. Will clean it up and post pictures of it shortly. This one is for Y2K when he hits the age. He'll eventually get all of mine anyway, but I'd like to hang around for a few more years before he does!
Uh Oh, now you've done it, C&R and Mosin Nagants!! Be very, very careful, you will become addicted very, very quick. It's worse than crack! It happened to me, I thought well they are cheap, and then Mosin Nagant's became my main area of collecting. I especially like the Finnish varieties, but you need to have at least one each, Tula and Izhevsk.

They are a neat bit of history though, enjoy!!!

Steve
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