sound of 44 special revolver vs 45 ACP ?

[preventec47]

Assume same bullet weights and same powder charges,
barrel lengths and velocities,
Does the flash from the cylinder and barrel junction
increase the sound signature as compared to the semi-auto
pistol ?
I know how much more loud a pistol is with a compensator
on the muzzle to reduce recoil because of disbursing the
gas to the sides.... I was just thinking that the flash
out the sides of the cylinder might act in the same way.

There is a video of a guy shooting a SW 460 and holding
a hot dog meat up by the cylinder and barrel junction and
the flash cut the weiner in half. That was really surprising
and certainly taught me a lesson I dont think a lot of people
think about.

[Old Savage]

Operating pressure of the cartridge seems to have the greatest bearing on sound to me.

I have had the 45 ACP in a 1911 and a Ruger 4 5/8" and they seemed about the same to me with hearing protection of course.

[Buck Elliott]

You don't want fingers or thumbs or anything else you value anywhere near the barrel/cylibder gap on any revolver...

[J Miller]

preventec47,

I've had 1911s, several of them actually. A S&W 25-2 45ACP and two Ruger BH's with ACP cylinders. From my perspective the sound from the revolvers is a bit louder than the auto loader, but not enough to really be significant.

The side blast from the barrel cylinder gap is far worse on a magnum or high pressure round than it is for a standard round.
Here is a freeze frame of me shooting a 460 S&W with the 200gr red tipped Hornady round:

Joe Shooting 460web.jpg

This thing is the loudest round I've ever fired. The over pressures were horrendous.

Here is a picture of me shooting my Ruger BH .45 Colt with 18.5grs of 2400 and 265gr Keith SWC:

Joe shooting BH w Keith load 5-20-06.jpg

The muzzle blast and side flash was nothing compared to the 460. Matter of fact a full house 357 is nothing compared to that 460.

Joe

[Blaine]

I messed up with a .22 revolver and it hurt and burnt me bad.

[Terry Murbach]

OKAY....I WILL ASK :

What in the world does the sound of this, that , or the other handgun, sixgun, revolving pistol, or autoloading pistol have to do with anything ??

[AJMD429]

What in the world does the sound of this, that , or the other handgun, sixgun, revolving pistol, or autoloading pistol have to do with anything ??

Two things come to mind for me.

One is the 'flinch' factor, which is probably not much of an issue to an experienced shooter, but might affect ease of training. I get around that by having anyone I'm helping learn to shoot shoot hundreds of rounds with a .22LR and hearing protectors before shooting centerfire; by then they are almost immune to noise as a 'flinch' factor.

The other is the 'what if I have to shoot in self defense' issue. I think that although in a self defense shooting situation the presumption is the 'alternative' may be death vs. deafness, IF all else is basically equal, why suffer permanent hearing damage if you don't have to? Additionally, in the rare instance that there is an ongoing fight and that first shot doesn't stop the danger, the inability to hear well - or even just the disorientation - could become a dangerous handicap. I've never fired a gun in self defense, but I know people who have who say that the 'blast' was simply NOT an issue, although the couple I know personally are also prone to shooting without hearing protection even at the range, and are already hard of hearing.

Anyway, if there is a chance I may have to fire without hearing protection (and if I didn't think there was, I wouldn't CCW), I'd rather use a round that isn't going to damage my hearing any more than necessary, IF the terminal ballistics are equivalent. As far as that, I think shot placement and bullet construction are so much more important factors that I'm not convinced there would be much real difference in .44 Special vs. .45 ACP or even the statistically great .357 Magnum, when it comes down to the end results.

[Hobie]

I wouldn't say the difference is worth considering. Why would it be? You have no difference but a small difference in the barrel diameter. It isn't like the .357 Mag where the pressure is both higher and the bore smaller. Then too, the term "sound" isn't strictly correct is it? If you want the loudness, that can be measured with a decibel meter.

BTW, FWIW, I was just reading a 3-4 year old article by Mike Venturino about BP in cowboy guns. Elmer Keith used to talk about the concussion from BP cartridge guns blowing out lanterns. Mike found that to be true. The same gun loaded with smokeless didn't do this. This happened even when the lantern was behind the shooter!

[JohndeFresno]

As Joe (Miller) pointed out, the .460 S&W issue is really significant with its rifle-like velocities and the pressures involved.

Althought this may be a bit off-topic, it bears mention, here. Law enforcemnt circles and other groups have circulated a gruesome photograph of a man's mangled hand. The thumb was gone. He had held his .460 with the support hand in front of the shooting hand (as is common), but he let his thumb cant forward so that it was in line with the front of the cylinder. The warning was obvious. That cylinder gap is really dangerous, at least on the hotter magnums.

[preventec47]

I have never seen the literature that comes with new magnum
revolvers but in this day of extreme liability, do the gun
manufacturers include significant warning literature
on how to keep your hands away from the cylinder
and barrel when firing ?
In rifles I have bought there are tons of all kinds of safety
info.

On a related noise issue and I was originally talking about
any extra noise coming out of the revolver chamber
barrel interface.... Has anyone ever seen or heard of a
revolver wearing a silencer ? If no, maybe the cylinder gap
is the reason.

[Hobie]

I have never seen the literature that comes with new magnum
revolvers but in this day of extreme liability, do the gun
manufacturers include significant warning literature
on how to keep your hands away from the cylinder
and barrel when firing ?

Freedom Arms does.

[Streetstar]

44 spec. and 45 ACP have similar noise and tone levels to me

[2X22]

and the flash cut the weiner in half.

There is an obvious lesson to be learned here. Keep yer shorts on when shooting, perhaps?

2x22

[Terry Murbach]

and the flash cut the weiner in half.

There is an obvious lesson to be learned here. Keep yer shorts on when shooting, perhaps?

2x22

And not only that, you should NOT be eating frankfurters on the range when you are shooting !!!
I'll bet you it would not cut a BIG MAC in half....or a WENDY'S DOUBLE CHEESEBURGER !!

[2X22]

I'll bet you it would not cut a BIG MAC in half....

Huh. I've never met BIG MAC, but he must really be a BIG DOG

2x22

[AJMD429]

Has anyone ever seen or heard of a
revolver wearing a silencer ? If no, maybe the cylinder gap
is the reason.

There IS a suppressed revolver I think made for some police unit a ways back. If I recall it may have been the revolver which had a conical rear barrel face and matching cylinder that 'cammed' into the barrel upon firing, which of course would reduce cylinder 'gap' considerably... I just saw a picture of it the other day on the internet, but didn't save it.

[Hobie]

I believe I saw a Ruger Super Redhawk so modified and as a carbine...

ummm by Knight Armament

[pokey]

it's all fun and games until someone loses a wiener.

http://www.funnytshirtsinc.com/its-all- ... -main.html

[wavetrain75]

I believe I saw a Ruger Super Redhawk so modified and as a carbine...

ummm by Knight Armament

So you have mall ninjas here too?

[preventec47]

Holy Cow! that pistol looks like it actually only has
about a 4 or 5 inch barrel on it. The rest is silencer.
I wonder how loud it is with the cylinder gap un protected ?

[Buck Elliott]

I have never seen the literature that comes with new magnum
revolvers but in this day of extreme liability, do the gun
manufacturers include significant warning literature
on how to keep your hands away from the cylinder
and barrel when firing ?

Freedom Arms does.

That's because at .454 Casull pressures, that gap becomes a PLASMA CUTTER...

[Buck Elliott]

I believe I saw a Ruger Super Redhawk so modified and as a carbine...

ummm by Knight Armament

What'll they come up with next...???

No -- I don't wanna know...

[AJMD429]

Has anyone ever seen or heard of a revolver wearing a silencer ? If no, maybe the cylinder gap is the reason.

Here's what I was referring to...

Non-gas seal revolvers have a small gap between the cylinder and the barrel; the small gap between the cylinder and barrel is necessary to allow the revolver's cylinder to revolve, presenting a new, loaded chamber for firing. This necessitates that the bullet jump the gap when fired, which may have an adverse effect on accuracy, especially if the barrel and chamber are misaligned, and also presents a path for the escape of high-pressure and high-temperature gases from behind the bullet. The M1895 has a mechanism which, as the hammer is cocked, first turns the cylinder and then moves it forward, closing the gap between the cylinder and the barrel. The cartridge, also unique, plays an important part in sealing the gun to the escape of propellant gases. The bullet is deeply seated, entirely within the cartridge case, and the case is slightly reduced in diameter at its mouth. The barrel features a short conical section at its rear; this accepts the mouth of the cartridge, completing the gas seal. By sealing the gap, the velocity of the bullet is increased by 50 to 150 ft/s (15 to 45 m/s).

This closed firing system meant that the Nagant revolver, unlike most other revolvers, could be effectively fitted with a far more silent suppressor, as indeed it was [1]. During World War II, a small number of Nagant revolvers used by Russian recon and scout troops were outfitted with a variety of sound suppressor known as the “Bramit device.” The Cheka/NKVD/KGB were known to use the silenced Nagant for assassinations. Silenced Nagant revolvers, modified in clandestine metal shops, also turned up in the hands of Viet Cong guerrillas during the Vietnam War as assassination weapons. There is an example of a silenced Nagant M1895 in the CIA Museum in Langley, Virginia.

Here's the article - still haven't found the picture I saw.

http://www.gunslot.com/guns/mosin-nagant-m1895

[preventec47]

That Russian pistol sounds like it has some great design
features but whatever mechanism shoved the cylinder forward
would also have to be strong enough to withstand 100 percent
of the thrust that occurs upon firing.
If they were able to accomplish that I would say that
is a very impressive feat of engineering.
But then we have to ask, if it worked pretty well,
why hasnt anyone copied it ?