Attention California Levergun Hunters

[Mike Rintoul]

The new Grizzly Extreme Ammuniton is legal for the CA condor zone for next year and thereafter. I apologize for not getting it out in time for this year. It has been proven to perform great on deer, hogs and other animals up to 200 lbs and out to 125 yards, depending on caliber. The 44's, 45 Colt and 357's should be great with others coming as well.

[Modoc ED]

Are you offering .444 Marlin? If so, I assume you are offering it with Barnes XPB 225gr (.429) bullet. Cost?

EDIT: I have used that bullet in some of my .444 Marlin reloads pushed by 49gr/H-322 and 52gr/H-322. I do not have the fps info as I did not have a chrono when I loaded them but I do have a chrono now and the next time I reload some of those rounds, I will chrono them. I have been a bit disappointed with their performance on hogs as to shoulder hits/penetration. Although Barnes says the petals will remain intact with the base bullet, I have found that on a shoulder hit on a large hog, the petals do separate from the base bullet and the pentration is rather shallow when encountering bone -- stops short of the vitals. Now with a neck shot or head shot at the ear the XPB 225gr bullets work as advertised -- petals spread, remain intact with the base bullet, and penetrate well. This info is based on 5-hog kills with the XPB 225gr bullet in .444 Marlin reloads.

[bsaride]

Are these the "Punch" bullets?

Will the "Long" version work in a Winchester 94AE?

[Modoc ED]

Are these the "Punch" bullets?

Will the "Long" version work in a Winchester 94AE?

Last I heard the Punch bullets have a lead core. No good for the CA lead free Condor Zone.

[RKrodle]

This ammo using Mike's new bullets that he designed.

[86er]

Yeah - Mike's Extreme ammo is lead free and he designed and makes the bullets himself.

[Modoc ED]

Cool. Is there a write-up on the bullets. Composition, etc.. Has he submitted them to CA DFG for their approved list? Seems that I read something here on the forum not too long ago about Extreme ammo.

[El Chivo]

Any thoughts on a bullet for 35 Rem?

I just made dummies in 35 Rem with the Barnes XPB 140 .357 and the Barnes TSX 200 .358 spire point. Sadly, the .357 version is loose in the cartridge neck, even after a firm crimp. Too small. So I'm not even going to test it.

The TSX needs 1800 fps to expand, so that means it will only be effective to about 50 yards in 35 Rem. Unless you think a solid will do the job.

If you come up with a copper bullet in .358 in a round nose, 180 grain or so, petals designed to expand at moderate velocity, you'd be our savior.

[Modoc ED]

Is Mike Rintoul going to come back to this thread and answer the questions asked and provide additional information?

[Mike Rintoul]

The bullet is the new Etreme bullet that we designed and produce in house. It is all copper and will be CA legal. In my first post I specified 44, 45 and 357 for leverguns. The reason is that the Extreme line of our ammo was originally designed for self defense purposes. The 44 Magnum bullet will work in the 444 Marlin. However, right now the available in-stock ammunition with these bullets only includes handgun cartridges. Upon request, I would be happy to load the bullets in other cartridges they are appropriate to (ie: 444 Marlin) as a custom load. A .308 bullet will be out soon, but it will probably not work in 30-30. I can't say for sure yet but it was designed with 308 Win and 30-06 in mind. Others bullets and sizes will follow as we get production under way. There are several threads you can search through on this site with photos of the bullets, field reports and information.

[Modoc ED]

Thanks for the come back.

[NonPCnraRN]

How do they compare to the Northfork all copper flat nose solids and cup point solids? I have 260 gr cup point solids in .452 and 350 gr cup point solids in .458 designed specifically for the 45-70 and 450 Marlin. The bases of these bullets have the signature Northfork microbands to reduce pressures and increase velocity. They are all produced on CNC machines from solid copper. They come in cup point and flat point. The cup points flatten at 1200 fps and increase meplat size. Are yours anything like that? We need all the good ammo/component suppliers we can find here in CA.
Edit: These bullets act like hard cast lead and penetrate accordingly, much more than the Barnes DPX. I sent some of the .458 cal cup point solids to Reflex 264 for testing. I am glad to see Grizzly taking a role in providing CA hunters with loaded ammo. It is much appreciated.

[86er]

The Northfork in .452 are not for the 45-70 and 450 Marlin. That would be the .458's. Mike's Extreme ammo expands into 4 vicious petals that have a bladed edges on both sides of them. They retain the weight 100% if no petals break off (which is rare to break one off). They expand according to caliber performance, for example the 44 Special expands as low as 650 fps and will work much higher but at 1200 fps you risk breaking the petals. The 44 Magnum expands at 950 fps and will stay intact up to 1600 fps. They are CNC machined copper. The bullets expand to huge diameters, for example the 44 Magnum and Spl will expand to 1 1/2" ! I know because I helped test these in various media including shooting some hogs, sheep, goats and deer.

[NonPCnraRN]

The Northfork in .452 are not for the 45-70 and 450 Marlin. That would be the .458's. Mike's Extreme ammo expands into 4 vicious petals that have a bladed edges on both sides of them. They retain the weight 100% if no petals break off (which is rare to break one off). They expand according to caliber performance, for example the 44 Special expands as low as 650 fps and will work much higher but at 1200 fps you risk breaking the petals. The 44 Magnum expands at 950 fps and will stay intact up to 1600 fps. They are CNC machined copper. The bullets expand to huge diameters, for example the 44 Magnum and Spl will expand to 1 1/2" ! I know because I helped test these in various media including shooting some hogs, sheep, goats and deer.

Sorry about misleading you about the .452 bullets. My sentence structure made it sound like they were for the 45/70 and 450 Marlin which they are not. The .452 bullets are for the 45 Colt/454. They make a flat nose and cup nosed bullet in .458 cal for the 45-70 and 450 Marlin. They come in 325 gr and 350 gr weights. I have a box of the 350 gr cup point solids and a box of 260 gr .452 cup point solids for the 45 Colt/454. I spoke to Franz the owner who told me about the bullets for the 45 Colt/454 as they were not on his website yet. It sounds like the 2 products will compliment each other depending on what you want the bullet to do. That is not a bad thing.

[NonPCnraRN]

The Northfork in .452 are not for the 45-70 and 450 Marlin. That would be the .458's. Mike's Extreme ammo expands into 4 vicious petals that have a bladed edges on both sides of them. They retain the weight 100% if no petals break off (which is rare to break one off). They expand according to caliber performance, for example the 44 Special expands as low as 650 fps and will work much higher but at 1200 fps you risk breaking the petals. The 44 Magnum expands at 950 fps and will stay intact up to 1600 fps. They are CNC machined copper. The bullets expand to huge diameters, for example the 44 Magnum and Spl will expand to 1 1/2" ! I know because I helped test these in various media including shooting some hogs, sheep, goats and deer.

They sound like all copper Black Talons. Do the .45s expand at regular 45 Colt velocities or do they have to be driven at Ruger only velocities like the DPX and Nortfork cup point to expand? One of my complaints about the Corbon DPX .45 Colt bullets is that they had to be driven at Ruger only velocities according to their loading manual while they made two 44 cal bullets, one for the 44 spl and the other for the 44 mag.

[El Chivo]

Also, the 30-30 Barnes bullets stop expanding at 1400 fps, making them solids after 200 yards.

It would be nice to have one that would go longer, say, 1200 fps and 300 yards?

I understand that might make it lose petals at short range, that there's a trade off there. But I would rather have it expand than not.

[Mike Rintoul]

The current Etreme ammo expands at handgun velocities and will work at rifle velocities. To be clear, I have a new bullet for rifle like 444, 308, etc that was tested earlier this year. It was called the Hexonic Rocket but that may not be it's final name. It is a hollow point with an octagon cavity that creates 6 secondaries. It worked great on bison and deer in the 45-70 300gr and 444 in 250 gr. Hang in there rifle shooters - I only have so much time and money to expand so quickly!

[NonPCnraRN]

Also, the 30-30 Barnes bullets stop expanding at 1400 fps, making them solids after 200 yards.

It would be nice to have one that would go longer, say, 1200 fps and 300 yards?

I understand that might make it lose petals at short range, that there's a trade off there. But I would rather have it expand than not.

Your eyes are better than mine. My eyes limit me with iron sights to shoot within the working range of these bullets. I do like the fact that we now have 3 different styles of bullets that will allow us to buy what we need for the type of hunting we do. Those Grizzly bullets sound like they will be wicked on the game they were intended for. But it is nice to have a solid with a cup point if you want to break shoulder bones of big animals. I see this as a win/win situation for CA hunters.

[NonPCnraRN]

The current Etreme ammo expands at handgun velocities and will work at rifle velocities. To be clear, I have a new bullet for rifle like 444, 308, etc that was tested earlier this year. It was called the Hexonic Rocket but that may not be it's final name. It is a hollow point with an octagon cavity that creates 6 secondaries. It worked great on bison and deer in the 45-70 300gr and 444 in 250 gr. Hang in there rifle shooters - I only have so much time and money to expand so quickly!

Just out of curiosity, how long does it take a product to be approved once the application is submitted?

[Old Savage]

Didn't see these on your website. What is the cost and the ballistics.

[Mike Rintoul]

Sorry about the website - that's another project I've been working on. The prices range from $34.95 and up for a box and the ballistics would be very similar to our other loadings with the same bullet weight in cast. Please call or e-mail info@grizzlycartridge.com or specific info.