DISTINGUISHING A MODEL 64 WINCHESTER FROM A MODEL 94

[RED CAP]

I recently saw a pre-64 Model 94 that had all the pre-64 Model 64's obvious attributes, the pistol grip stock, tang, lever, forearm, forearm cap, 24 inch hooded barrel, etc. Everything but the "64" on the barrel, where it had a "94" instead. I presume this was all special order from the factory, but it got me to wondering: is there ANYTHING except the "Model 64" on the barrel that differentiates the 94 from the 64? For that matter is there ANYTHING on the Model 55 except the 24 inch barrel that is different from a Model 94 of the same era ?

[J Miller]

RED CAP,

As much as I know about Mdl 94s I can't answer your questions. Others will pipe up with the answers in a bit.

However I will take the moment to welcome you to our forum.

Joe

[rjohns94]

welcome to the fire. others will answer your question shortly

[Griff]

I recently saw a pre-64 Model 94 that had all the pre-64 Model 64's obvious attributes, the pistol grip stock, tang, lever, forearm, forearm cap, 24 inch hooded barrel, etc. Everything but the "64" on the barrel, where it had a "94" instead. I presume this was all special order from the factory, but it got me to wondering: is there ANYTHING except the "Model 64" on the barrel that differentiates the 94 from the 64? For that matter is there ANYTHING on the Model 55 except the 24 inch barrel that is different from a Model 94 of the same era ?

The Mdl 64 and 64A have a slightly wider forearm than the model 94. That I'm aware of, no Mdl 94s have that feature.

The Mdl 55 for a time had a separate serial number range... then they were co-mingled with the 94s. Both the Mdl 55 & 64 have fluted combs.
Mdl 64A:

[Mike D.]

A more likely scenerio is that you have what is called a "parts cleanup gun". If your gun is a 94, the barrel should have "-MODEL 94-WINCHESTER-NICKEL STEEL-30WCF-" on it with "-TRADE MARK-" in smaller capitals below. It could also carry the "Winchester proof steel" mark, but shouldn't if the original 94 barrel was used. There is a fine line between the 94 and the 55, which followed it's demise in 1933. Barrels with both designations have been seen. Whatever the outcome, you do seem to have a different gun. Welcome to the forum. Multiple photos are always appreciated and can further assist to solving your dilemma:)

[RED CAP]

Thanks for the quick answers and comments! (and the "welcome"!). I think the sad conclusion is that ONLY the barrels "count" as differentiation, that is, nothing else on the gun is marked "64" or "55". Since I started to get curious, I've been checking used parts sources, and for about $500-$600 I can turn my 94 into a 64 (with the "64" barrel) EXCEPT that both of my 94's are early 1950's and I think the 64's stopped in the mid to late 1940's (1947?). Thus, it becomes incredibly easy to build a fake 64 that an ABSOLUTE EXPERT can't tell from the real thing! That's sad, because a nice (90%) 64 sells for about $1000 more than a similar, exact same year 94. It's kind of like all those faked up Garand M1 sniper rifles; it's gotten so bad there that the value of real ones has fallen through the floor.

[Griff]

Mdl 64s ceased production in 1956 according to Madis.

[kimwcook]

Welcome to the forum. I was taken "once" years back. I'm extremely careful on believing what someone's telling me unless they've been vetted by me or someone I trust.

[Pete44ru]

Welcome to the fire, REDCAP !

IMHO, the configuration is what distinguishes a particular model, moreso than a barrel designation - which could have easily been installed from the stock on hand at the time for expediency.

Models 64/64Deluxe/64A are all 2/3 magazine, pistol-gripped buttstock guns - whether of 20" or 24" bbl presuasion.

AFAIK, only some pre-64 Model 94 Deluxe's had pistol-gripped stocks as production or semi-production issue - with rifle/carbines issued a straight-gripped buttstock, differing in sights, forend, and BP configs.

Likewise, Model 55's were supposed to be issued with shorter 3-shot magazines, shotgun butts and 24" bbls.

I would further presume there's no reliable way to tell what came out of the Custom Shop, except on a case-by-case basis.

.

[bogus bill]

I own this model 64. I belive it was made in 1952. I once owned a later 64A that they made for just a short while in the early 70s. If that gun said 94 it either was a mistake or a 94 barrel on a 64 reciever.

[RED CAP]

AH-HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think we're on to something! The 94 with all 64 features except the barrel marking that I was talking about was ALSO a 1952, approximate serial number 1889xxx. Since speculation is always fun, I would speculate that there was a parts cleanup, or, alternatively, that there was a shortage of 64 marked barrels. Is your serial number sequence somewhat close? By the way, that's the most beautiful 64 that I've ever seen!!!Thanks for posting it.

[RED CAP]

Oh hell...I just re-read your post; yours IS marked "64"...and here I thought that I'd just made a brilliant conclusion...oh, well, had a senior moment, I guess.

[bogus bill]

red capp, the serial # on mine is 1882603. I belive mine was unfired or right next to it when I bought it in the early 70s. I have/had many other rifles makeing it a safe queen. I have tried it out with maybe ten rounds and thats about it. A friend of mine ran a small gun shop. A widow brought this and some more guns in, to swing the deal for him I paid $200 for this one!

[Buck Elliott]

red capp, the serial # on mine is 1882603. I belive mine was unfired or right next to it when I bought it in the early 70s. I have/had many other rifles makeing it a safe queen. I have tried it out with maybe ten rounds and thats about it. A friend of mine ran a small gun shop. A widow brought this and some more guns in, to swing the deal for him I paid $200 for this one!

At least Bill's rifle has the 'correct', old-style comb fluting. Always hated the 'new' style, which really doesn't even do the job the fluting was meant to do...

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Didn't the 64 have the "NRA" pistol grip stock design that was also on the 71? I believe this goes along with the slightly wider forearm. A 94 with a special order pistol grip stock has a longer shape ... does it not? Not that I'm any expert, I just recall that the 71's and 64's were supposed to have that style of stock.

[.45colt]

I have a '64 made in 1953. When You shoulder the 64 You will never confuse it with another model 94. the stock is bigger,straighter and the pistol grip is full.not to mention the for end being wider. mine is a hunting gun that has considerable surface ware. I haven't weighted them but I bet the 64 is 1 1/2lb heavier than a 94 carbine. Winchester Quality.