Had a gun accident today - darn!

86er · Post by **86er** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:02 pm

I went to the range with a friend to shoot some guns and sight in his rifle. We were shooting a Remington 700 in 30-06, bolt action with scope. I shot the first 3 shots, moving the scope a bit between each shot. The Remington 165 gr Core Lokt factory ammo was grouping great. My friend fired the next two shots to make sure it was set for his eye. 2 Inches high at 100 yard, dead center and two rounds touching one another. He said "Just one more shot and we'll go - it's too hot out here". We were shooting off of a high bench and sitting on bar stool type seats. The rifle was in a metal rest (padded were the gun touches it). He squeezed off one more shot. WHAMMM! the table tipped over taking us with it, the rifle went over our head and we crashed to the ground. When we brushed the dust off, we noticed the rifle. The barrel had exploded and split in four petals. We put the table and benches upright and my buddy got stung by several wasps on his hand. He had reached under the table and there was a wasp nest there. Recounted what happened, there were a lot of wasps flying around the muzzle. We think one crawled in between shots and made its way down the barrel. Thank goodness we only got a few bumps and bruises, and a few wasp stings.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:19 pm

HOLY SOCKS BATMAN!!!!!!!

Glad you guys are allright!
That could have been Bad!

jb

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:23 pm

Glad you both are alright also Joe. Rotten luck.....gun explodes and THEN a wasp attack! Your day has to get better from here on in!

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:24 pm

Man, who would have thought a wasp would actually do that! Are you sure it a wasp or maybe a dirt dobber or several that might have been packing some dirt into the barrel?

Pathfinder09 · Post by **Pathfinder09** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:28 pm

WTF!

RKrodle · Post by **RKrodle** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:50 pm

WOW!!!!!! Whatever it was it looks like it started about 6 inches from the end of the barrel.

don Tomás · Post by **don Tomás** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:51 pm

Wow... glad you're both ok!

piller · Post by **piller** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:57 pm

+1 on the glad that you're OK. Let us know what the factory says and does as far as service.

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:07 pm

Amazing, glad your all right, who would have thought a wasp could sting like that!

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:14 pm

Glad both of you are unhurt.
That was obviously caused by an obstruction. I would have never thought a bug could do that. Incredible.

Is the rifle totaled? From the pic I can't tell how bad the receiver might be hurt.

Joe

mod71alaska · Post by **mod71alaska** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:20 pm

Glad your Guardian Angels were watching over you both today!

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:33 pm

mod71alaska wrote:Glad your Guardian Angels were watching over you both today!

Without a doubt, you guys were being watched over. Glad everyone is okay. Guns can be replaced.

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:44 pm

I'm no expert, but the point of the barrel that let go looks like a complete blockage as if a bullet that didn't exit the bore. I very seriously doubt a wasp (even 2 or three) could have provided enough blockage for as violent a bulge as that one, especially that far down the bore.

But glad everyone was alright.

crs · Post by **crs** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:52 pm

I prescribe lots of beer, BBQ, and A/C.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:07 pm

Holly smokes! Could have been much worse!

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:58 pm

Whew! That pic really got my attention.

Thank the Lord for you guys to be OK. Been there-done that---very scary.

I do agree with meanc though. I don't have an answer, but a wasp? Sometimes weird things happen--like a little stone got kicked up and just happened to roll in the barrel. Meterorite maybe? Maybe a piece of jacket from the previous bullet got lodged in there-------------Sixgun

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:18 pm

Fill out a Form 1 and send a check for $200 and make it a Short Barreled Rifle . . .

Seriously, I'm very glad that no one was hurt.

Noah

bogus bill · Post by **bogus bill** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:12 pm

Well, if it really was a wasp, he went out with a blast!

bogus bill · Post by **bogus bill** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:21 pm

Years ago I read of a account where a flyer durring world war two was straffing a german machine gun nest. In the process he was hit and had to bail out near the krauts that he had was shooting at. He was captured and instead of being mean to him they were howling with laughter! They showed him where one of his bullets had went right down the barrel of their gun as they were shooting at him, and it blew up just like that! Good thing they had a sense of humor!

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:26 pm

Whoa! That's plumb scary!

huntress · Post by **huntress** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:34 pm

WOW!!! Glad you guys are OK. That could've been much worse.
Sandy

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:39 pm

I just keep looking at that rifle and keep thinking the Roadrunner had something to do with it

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:58 pm

I agree with meanc and Sixgun, Doubt if any bug could cause that, maybe a separated jacket or stuck bullet but not a bug !! Thatcher made many blow up tests ,although with an `.30-06`, he said it was not easy to get a rifle barrel to blow like that. He shot out many stuck cleaning patches without damage to the barrel.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:02 pm

Interesting. We were shooting a .17 HMR which usually cloverleafs at 75-100 yards, but I saw a tick on my leg, and decided to stuff it into the barrel (muzzle) before the next shot. The next five shots grouped 5-6" off the bench but the gun went back to it's usual accuracy after a thorough brushing.

Little things in barrels may be a big deal...!

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:03 pm

Sixgun wrote:Whew! That pic really got my attention. Thank the Lord for you guys to be OK. Been there-done that---very scary.

I do agree with meanc though. I don't have an answer, but a wasp? Sometimes weird things happen--like a little stone got kicked up and just happened to roll in the barrel. Meterorite maybe? Maybe a piece of jacket from the previous bullet got lodged in there-------------Sixgun

meteorite?

glad y'all are ok.

dr walker · Post by **dr walker** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:12 pm

Man Alive!

Alan Wood · Post by **Alan Wood** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:36 pm

AJMD429 wrote:Interesting. We were shooting a .17 HMR which usually cloverleafs at 75-100 yards, but I saw a tick on my leg, and decided to stuff it into the barrel (muzzle) before the next shot. The next five shots grouped 5-6" off the bench but the gun went back to it's usual accuracy after a thorough brushing.

Little things in barrels may be a big deal...!

An apropiate end to the tick. To bad it spoiled the range session though.

Gobblerforge · Post by **Gobblerforge** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:46 am

That'll make you twitch a little.
Were ALL previously shot rounds accounted for as good hit rounds on paper?
Gobbler

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:12 am

No way!!! That was close friend, too close!
Glad you two are ok.
That wasp sure had a shock!

Nath.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:41 am

Alan Wood wrote:
AJMD429 wrote:Interesting. We were shooting a .17 HMR which usually cloverleafs at 75-100 yards, but I saw a tick on my leg, and decided to stuff it into the barrel (muzzle) before the next shot. The next five shots grouped 5-6" off the bench but the gun went back to it's usual accuracy after a thorough brushing.

Little things in barrels may be a big deal...!
An apropiate end to the tick. To bad it spoiled the range session though.

My thoughts exactly!

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:15 am

Wow. That had to be one western moment.

I can't tell you how many times I've been shooting around wasps and such - weird...

That kind of failure is usually associated with dirt or snow crammed in the barrel, or a squib load.

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:19 am

I would have my doubts that there was a bullet lodged in the barrel, as the last two shots from the rifle were marked on the target. Scary stuff. How did the bolt fare? Was the bolt easy to extract, or was the case jammed in there tight?

Ed

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:30 pm

Very glad no one was hurt. We can certainly rule out a stuck bullet, given the holes in the paper downrange. I think we can also rule out an over-charge, since if it were an overcharge, the failure would have been in the chamber/throat area. It also appears that there was very little elapsed time between the 2nd last and the last shot, and that the rifle was on a bench in a rest. I think we can rule out a chunk of the previous bullet staying in the bore, given the accuracy of the previous bullet. As unlikely as it sounds, right now a Wasp is the best candidate. One reason I hate to ever lay my rifle on the ground when I'm hunting is that I'm always afraid something might crawl in the bore. I've doubted that it would cause a problem, and I've actually been slightly annoyed at myself for worrying about something like that. This experience here does raise the probability that something crawling up the bore can destroy ones rifle and makes me feel not quite so annoyed with myself about worrying about something crawling up my bore if I were to lay it down on the ground.

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:49 pm

Well first of all I'm glad you're both OK!
I seriously doubt a wasp or any bug would crawl into a freshly fired bore; manily because of heat, but also because of the smell. I also doubt a wasp could wedge itself tight enough to cause a obstruction firm enough to blow the end in such a fashion. There's plenty of room for gases to escape past a loose fitting wasp, and not even bulge a barrel, let alone burst it. I've put tape over the end of my bores for years while hunting in inclement weather, and never done anything but blow it off. Wasp probably leaks more gas past it than tape can. More than likely a separation of jacket, or accidental blockage of some other sort, but either way a very firm blockage.
Glad you guys are here to show and tell about it though!

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:04 pm

glad u r ok and no one got hurt.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:00 pm

Crazy!

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:09 pm

Glad you folks are OK.

I'll tell you one thing, if it was a wasp I'll bet he doesn't have the guts to do that again.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:12 am

There's plenty of room for gases to escape past a loose fitting wasp, and not even bulge a barrel, let alone burst it.

Well, you're forgetting that it's the bullet creating the plug. The wasp, if that's what it was, would have merely stopped the bullet, and the bullet created the blockage. I wouldn't have thought it could happen, but there you are.

Must have been a mud-dauber with a belly-full of mud.

Don't throw that gun away! It would make a dandy lamp with those petals supporting a lampshade and the bulb right in the bore. Pull the trigger and the light goes on.

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:19 am

We hear of blow-ups like this, but pictures sure show a scary story. You guys could have been whacked real good with flying metal-----big time. Happy for you, that you walked away safe.

rusty gunns · Post by **rusty gunns** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:05 am

mod71alaska wrote:Glad your Guardian Angels were watching over you both today!

That's exactly why I never use a Winchester 700 when I go Wasp hunten. At least not in 30-06.

Seriously, I almost lost my Winchester 94 in 38-55 to a double load a few months ago. Glad to see you are OK.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:33 am

On the one hand, you'd think that the small amount of material of a 'wasp' wouldn't make much difference, but it wouldn't take much of a 'wedge' effect to raise pressures quite a bit; think about maybe 0.05" of exoskeleton wedged against one side of a pointed bullet.

On the other hand, you'd think that the rush of gas coming out in FRONT of the bullet would blow the bug out of the barrel before the bullet got to it. There's about 1.3 cubic inches of air in the first 18" in front of that bullet, and it all has to blow out the barrel BEFORE the bullet does.

Maybe it is good that some guns have such skinny barrels out towards the end. If it were a bull barrel it might have caused more chaos when it finally gave way.

Anyone with an old gun they don't like, who wants to do some 'wasp' tests...? I'd recommend a remote-firing setup, however.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:17 pm

AJMD429 wrote:On the one hand, you'd think that the small amount of material of a 'wasp' wouldn't make much difference, but it wouldn't take much of a 'wedge' effect to raise pressures quite a bit; think about maybe 0.05" of exoskeleton wedged against one side of a pointed bullet.

On the other hand, you'd think that the rush of gas coming out in FRONT of the bullet would blow the bug out of the barrel before the bullet got to it. There's about 1.3 cubic inches of air in the first 18" in front of that bullet, and it all has to blow out the barrel BEFORE the bullet does.

Maybe it is good that some guns have such skinny barrels out towards the end. If it were a bull barrel it might have caused more chaos when it finally gave way.

Anyone with an old gun they don't like, who wants to do some 'wasp' tests...? I'd recommend a remote-firing setup, however.

AJMD,

Would we need a live wasp or would a fresh kill be good enough? I'm serious here, I've seen dead wasps and they get hard pretty quick. A hard substance creates more resistance than softer substances.

I just wish 86er would get back on here and answer my question. Was the receiver / bolt totaled?

Joe

86er · Post by **86er** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:34 pm

We contacted a Apiologist - A type of Entomologist that studies bees and like insects. We did not tell them what happend so we wouldn't influence their comments. They told us two interesting things. First, wasps are attracted to sulpher smell, charcoal smoke and, in their opinion, the smell of a fired round. Secondly, they said a wasp would land under or on top of a barrel and crawl in. We asked how fast they would transcend into a barrel given the heat from firing a round. We gave a scenario of shooting, opening the bolt, putting another cartridge in, etc. They said the wasp would likely go towards the light when the bolt was opened and the case ejected. Once a new cartridge was inserted it would likely stop. We demonstrated the process and they guessed the wasp would cover 6 inches. Bingo - that's where the apparent obstruction was. They also said once the "light went out again" the wasp would swell as a defense mechanism and then either wait for the light again or eventually try to back out. They don't go backwards very well because the wings and mucus sack hang up. Lastly they thought the most likely wasp to enter a bore would be a female with a large sack as they tend to look for a dark narrow crevice. These are slightly bigger wasps and they puff up the sack to feel as they navigate the narrow, dark passage.

Next we spoke to Remington, and Shaw (barrel company). They agree that a wasp COULD be enough obstruction especially considering the outside temp 102 degrees, the vintage of the gun 24 years old, and the bullet obturating to fill the bore. They equated it to "putting your finger in the barrel". (Salvo might have got it right with Roadrunner - or Bugs Bunny). The previous shot was on target where it was supposed to be so that eliminates a stuck bullet and really diminishes the possibility of a jacket separation. We were referred to a study where an independent research firm intentionally put snow, mud and even chewing gun 1/4 and (separately) 1/2 way down the barrel. Some barrels let loose and others didn't - but a lot bulged without coming apart.

I don't think we'll ever know exactly what happened but it seems the wasp is still the likely candidate accompanied by a large dose of bad luck.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:50 pm

I don't think we'll ever know exactly what happened but it seems the wasp is still the likely candidate accompanied by a large dose of bad luck.

Bad luck is probably the hardest to avoid.

Joe

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:54 pm

86er wrote: They said the wasp would likely go towards the light when the bolt was opened and the case ejected. Once a new cartridge was inserted it would likely stop. .... They also said once the "light went out again" the wasp would swell as a defense mechanism and then either wait for the light again or eventually try to back out.

I've heard the saying, 'with my luck, the light at the end of the tunnel will be a train', but this gives rise to a new saying .... 'if you see the light at the end of the tunnel go out, don't wait for it to come on again ..... git the durn tootin' outa there!'

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:09 pm

Well, how does one go about boxing that little jewel up to head back to the factory? Maybe a tuba case?

gimdandy · Post by **gimdandy** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:42 am

Ya know ......86 er ...............I tend to think in a little different fashion, and this certainly qualifies as a situation that you apparently had no control over and all concerned walked away w/ only a few wasp stings . My guess is that you've stubbed your toe in the middle of the night getting up to take care of a sick kid and was worse hurt. I believe that you were very lucky and praise the LORD.
I also think that you are beyond qualified in analyzing , and very thorough . I personally would NOT have thought that this were possible , but because of my thoughts of you I'm a believer

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:04 am

Might show this one to Myth Busters seems they couldn't do this but there it is.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Bogus Bill, I think that story comes form Stanford Tuck's wartime biography
"Fly for Your Life."

For those of you who don't know the name, Tuck was a pilot in the RAF during
WWII. He was shot down several times, interned at Stalag Luft III(?) (the one
of The Great Escape fame), and was transferred to another prison just before
the big event. He escaped to the Russian lines, was forced to fight his way
back West with them, and used up enough luck and had enough adventure
for any 40 or so normal lifetimes. A great read, and an amazing wartime carreer.

And yes, I'm glad everybody's okay. I'd have bet on a ring of jacket material. But a
wasp?

-Stretch

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:47 pm

First rate follow-up investigation.Thank you for sharing this valuable
knowledge.It will definetly add somthing to the awareness factor!