.222 vs .223, is there a practical difference?

[awp101]

Rather than highjack jnyorks new toys thread, I thought I'd start a new one.

Generally .223 is going to be easier to find but like jnyork, I am a fan of oddball/obscure/fallen from prominence calibers.

Is there a practical difference between them or a significant advantage of one over the other (other than availability)?

[Old Ironsights]

.001" comes to mind...

[mescalero1]

My Remington was a .222 to start life, I had it punched out to .223 because .223 was so easy to come by, I never noticed any difference.

[awp101]

.001" comes to mind...

.001" isn't significant. Unless you have the wrong ammo...

[jnyork]

I doubt if the prairie dogs can tell a whit of difference!

[Old Ironsights]

.001" comes to mind...

.001" isn't significant. Unless you have the wrong ammo...

So... what you're saying is that it ain't the size of the boat, but the motion on the ocean?

[mescalero1]

Boy!
This went south quick

[madman4570]

Other than ammo availability/cost----NO

Heck,get the 22-250 and make a difference

[awp101]

Heck,get the 22-250 and make a difference

Got one, BLR .22-250.

OI, you're going to get our wrists slapped...

[2ndovc]

The .233 pushed the .222 and .222 Rem Mag into obscurity primarily due to the fact that the .223 was so cheap compared to the others. In my opinion.

I've also found the the .223 is more accepting of heavier bullet weights.

My .222 Sako will punch out 1/4" 100 yd groups with a 50 Grn. Bullet.
Go up to 55 and it will spread to 6"
That's just my opinion but I seem to have read that somewhere as well.

I'm always amazed at the damage that little bullet does even at 400+ yds.

jb

[Old Ironsights]

Heck,get the 22-250 and make a difference

Got one, BLR .22-250.

OI, you're going to get our wrists slapped...

Bailiff! Whack his....

Oh, nevermind...

[Terry Murbach]

YES, THERE IS A DISTINCT DIFFERENCE AS THE 223REM/5.56 [ OR THE 222WINCHESTER FOR THAT MATTER...REMEMBER THAT ONE ...? ] WILL DO WITH 55gr BULLETS WHAT THE 222REM WILL DO WITH 50gr BULLETS. A 10% GAIN IN BULLET WEIGHT IN A SMALL BORE IS NOT TO BE SNEEZED UPON.
OF COURSE THE BEST OF THE BUNCH WAS THE 222REM MAG BUT THAT ONE DIED THE DAY THE R-P COMPANY ADAPTED THE 5.56 AND CALLED IT THE 223REM.
FOR SOME REASON I CAN STILL HIT AND KILL THINGS FURTHER AWAY WITH THE 222REM THAN I CAN WITH ANY OF MY 223 RIFLES AND I HAVE NO CLUE WHY. THE 222REM SAKO BULL BBL IS NO MORE ACCURATE THAN ANY OF THE 223'S BUT I CAN POP STUFF OUT AT 300 YARDS WITH THAT RIFLE A HECK OF A BUNCH EASIER THAN WITH MY DIFFERENT 223'S.
OF COURSE THE LONGEST SHOT I EVER MADE WITH THE SAVAGE 110 HB 223REM WAS ON A PRAIRIE RAT BOB MILEK ESTIMATED AT 3/4 OF A MILE AWAY OR MORE. ALL I KNOW IS I WAS AIMING WAY WAY WAY!!! UP IN THE SKY, I COULD HAVE EATEN A SANDWICH WAITING FOR THE BULLET TO GET THERE, AND IT BLEW YON PRAIRIE RAT RIGHT OUTTA HIS BOOTS. THANK GOODNESS BOB WAS THERE TO SEE IT AS I AS THERE TOO, PULLED THE TRIGGER, AND STILL DIDN'T BELIEVE IT !!!

[madman4570]

A BLR in a 22-250 ! I am jealous!
That .222 Rem will do what you need and also you want to be a little different. go for it.Handload up some of these,the little critters wont know the difference.Wham
52gr BTHP 23.5 gr Hogdon H322 3,175 fps 1.825" CCI SR

[Rusty]

FWIW I seem to remember some kind of a contest one of the gun mags was going to put on to find out who was the best rifle shot in all kinds of conditions. David Tubbs took a rifle built on the AR-15 platform only it was a push pull manual action, not semiautomatic. It was also chambered in .222. He said something about the inherent accuracy of the round being better.
Personally I wouldn't have thought it would make that big a difference but Tubbs felt t did.

[BenT]

I couldn't really see enough advantage of the 223 over the 222. Unless you want bigger grain bullets and a tighter twist to spin them. I picked up a Savage 340 in 222 for $250 last summer and it shoots great. The only problem is the trigger sucks , but I'm working on that. I seem to run across alot of bulk 55 gr bullets . I would prefer to shoot 50gr.and maybe get tighter groups. I can hit soup cans at 200 yards . That's good enough for coyotes around here. Plus it has a magazine and I don't worry about scratching it.Goes on the ATV just fine.

[bsaride]

Not that I know anything, but I remember the 222 as being the premier
smallbore cartridge before the 22-250 was un-wildcatted and they can
now make any rifle better than 95% of what they had in the pre war years
which is why sooo many 223s are excellent.

[gundownunder]

Looking at my reloading manual, in power terms the .223 appears to have about a 10% advantage in FPS, so as a varmint cartridge I guess you would gain about 25 - 30 yds advantage and you can also use a heavier bullet which may help a bit with slightly bigger game.
At PLARC by far the most popular cal for an open class lever action target rifle is the BLR in .222, which are like hens teeth to find over here. We get various different cal BLRs shipped to us from all over the country to make conversions to .222.
The reason is the inherent accuracy of the .222 which was the premier benchrest cal for many years before wildcats like 6PPC etc. became popular. They are also cheaper to reload for and unlike you guys over there we dont get "cheap ammo" over here so .22, 30-30, 9MM, and 223 cost a packet just like all other ammo.
I'm currently in the process of purchasing a BLR .222 with a mid weight Remington barrel and hope to use it to get my scores up out of the dung pile.

[AJMD429]

.001" comes to mind...

.001" isn't significant. Unless you have the wrong ammo...

Lee 2nd edition loading manual shows them BOTH with .224 bullet diameters... isn't that right?

[Buffboy]

.001" comes to mind...

.001" isn't significant. Unless you have the wrong ammo...

Lee 2nd edition loading manual shows them BOTH with .224 bullet diameters... isn't that right?

You're right, both use the same diameter bullet though IIRC some of the early ones did come with 223 diameter barrels. I came close to getting the 222 when I first went shopping for a varmint rifle. I went with 223 because of cheaper component availability and I found a "really" good deal on a 700BDL Varmint Special in 223(new, no box, $300 otd).

If you're buying new commercial components, the difference isn't that much. Not much difference ballisticly, but costs for reloading can add up, and there are more platforms for the 223. The reason the 222 doesn't do as well with heavier bullets is the(usual) standard 1-14" twist. If you get one that's 1-12" the 222 does just as well as 223 with up to 60gr.

[6pt-sika]

I've had a bunch of 223's over the years and never really cared for them .

I do however like the 222 !

Why because it was the only round I ever knew my grandfather to own and use for groundhogs ! Matter of fact I have his old Remington 722 thats in 222 right now !

If I want something besides the 222 I'll go to the 204 Ruger !

Besides I already have a 220 Swift and 22-250AI

[Nath]

YES, THERE IS A DISTINCT DIFFERENCE AS THE 223REM/5.56 [ OR THE 222WINCHESTER FOR THAT MATTER...REMEMBER THAT ONE ...? ] WILL DO WITH 55gr BULLETS WHAT THE 222REM WILL DO WITH 50gr BULLETS. A 10% GAIN IN BULLET WEIGHT IN A SMALL BORE IS NOT TO BE SNEEZED UPON.
OF COURSE THE BEST OF THE BUNCH WAS THE 222REM MAG BUT THAT ONE DIED THE DAY THE R-P COMPANY ADAPTED THE 5.56 AND CALLED IT THE 223REM.
FOR SOME REASON I CAN STILL HIT AND KILL THINGS FURTHER AWAY WITH THE 222REM THAN I CAN WITH ANY OF MY 223 RIFLES AND I HAVE NO CLUE WHY. THE 222REM SAKO BULL BBL IS NO MORE ACCURATE THAN ANY OF THE 223'S BUT I CAN POP STUFF OUT AT 300 YARDS WITH THAT RIFLE A HECK OF A BUNCH EASIER THAN WITH MY DIFFERENT 223'S.
OF COURSE THE LONGEST SHOT I EVER MADE WITH THE SAVAGE 110 HB 223REM WAS ON A PRAIRIE RAT BOB MILEK ESTIMATED AT 3/4 OF A MILE AWAY OR MORE. ALL I KNOW IS I WAS AIMING WAY WAY WAY!!! UP IN THE SKY, I COULD HAVE EATEN A SANDWICH WAITING FOR THE BULLET TO GET THERE, AND IT BLEW YON PRAIRIE RAT RIGHT OUTTA HIS BOOTS. THANK GOODNESS BOB WAS THERE TO SEE IT AS I AS THERE TOO, PULLED THE TRIGGER, AND STILL DIDN'T BELIEVE IT !!!

You shot with Bob M Terry! Well I'll be,,,
I sure enjoyed just about any article from Bob and was sad when he passed away.

I have only been in the company of 223 and owned a bunch of 222.
Nothing in it as far as I'm concerened but would go for the triple any day. Mine shot 55grain bullets with a case stuffed with BL-c2.
What ever you are going to shoot with a 223 you can taylor a triple.

My longest with a triple was a fox at 388 paces, it took two shots to kill it, first one was a wound. That was with a 52gr match bullet only doing 2850ish fps. More is not allways better!

Nath.

[awp101]

Many thanks to all!

So it sounds like if I already have a .223 I'm not missing anything by not having a .222 except the ability to say "I have a .222!".

Mr Murbach's point of a 10% gain is well taken. That IS an acheivement in a smallbore. I do like heavy for caliber bullets but I might be able to use the same 50-55gr bullets I'd like to use in the .22-250? Speed is nice but not at the expense of potential barrel life IMO.

Rusty, a straight pull AR15? Sounds like my M4gery when using Radway Green...

This gives me some things to ponder, I may keep an eye out at the next few shows for one of those Savages or the like. Unless someone walks in with a Sako that doesn't know what they have and I get there first....

Sorry if this post rambles or seems jumpy. Not enough coffee yet and distractions courtesy of the cats and dog.

[Travis Morgan]

Isn't the .222 worse about eating barrels?

[Cliff]

I have both the 222 and the 223. Both rifles are very accurate. The popularity of the 222 dropped when the 223 became a military round. One advantage I have found in the 222, is the ability to reform the 223 brass to 222. I just run fired 223's into a full length sizing die, trim as needed for length and they are good to go. I never have measured converted cases for capacity versus the original 222's. My 222 loves 52 or 53 match grade bullets. As a side note I remember reading that when Ruger came out with mini-14 one reason they were slow getting into the U.S. market was they secured a large contract with the French National Police for a whole bunch of Mini-14's made up in .222 Remington caliber, due to their prohibition on weapons of military calibers. Don't know if it is true, but would be a nice rifle for someone who collects Rugers. ATB

[Travis Morgan]

There ARE .222 Mini's here, and they command a premium price.

[awp101]

I know I've read somewhere that at one time Savage brought in a line of rifles that were actually built (or at least the actions assembled and barrelled) by Sako. I keep thinking the L431 or L461 action was involved?

Anyway, I can't find where I read it and don't remember the series name/number to research or the calibers offered.

Anyone have that kind of info handy?

A Mini 14 in the hands of the French police? I feel safer already...

[cas]

My Remington was a .222 to start life, I had it punched out to .223 because .223 was so easy to come by, I never noticed any difference.

Criminal.

[mescalero1]

I did not think so at the time.

[BAGTIC]

The .222 should be easier on barrels than the 223 as it uses less powder and is loaded to lower pressures. The first gun I ever bought was a SAKO L46 in .222. It was in about 1957 and was the only .222 I had ever seen.

I also have a M700 that was originally a .222 but was rechambered to .223, It works fine with 50 grain bullets but the slow twist is not enough for anything heavy.

[awp101]

I also have a M700 that was originally a .222 but was rechambered to .223, It works fine with 50 grain bullets but the slow twist is not enough for anything heavy.

I suppose that's something I should keep in mind if I get to looking for one. If it's been rechambered it SHOULD have been restamped but that's not always the case...

[6pt-sika]

I must have missed something all these years !

I always loaded the 222 with a 40 or 45 grain bullet and the same for the 223 .

When i loaded 220 Swifts for years I always loaded 50 grain Noslers !

In any 22-250's I've had I loaded 50's as well .

Only 22 cal I loaded anything heavy in was the marlin 336SC I had in 219 Zipper , loaded 60 grain Nosler Partitions in that one ! Was gonna make it a 22 cal deer rifle , but I recently sold it so that went out the window .

[awp101]

Only 22 cal I loaded anything heavy in was the marlin 336SC I had in 219 Zipper

sigh...another caliber I'd love to play with along with the .218 Bee plus all the wildcat variations like the Donaldson Wasp, R2 Lovell, etc.

I'm just a fan of the 17 caliber centerfires through the 6.5mm class but the .20 cal SCHV calibers really interest me. .218, .219, .22H, 20mm, .222, .223, etc.

I guess AC/DC said it best: It ain't no fun waitin' 'round to be a millionaire....

[Old Ironsights]

Only 22 cal I loaded anything heavy in was the marlin 336SC I had in 219 Zipper

sigh...another caliber I'd love to play with along with the .218 Bee plus all the wildcat variations like the Donaldson Wasp, R2 Lovell, etc.

I'm just a fan of the 17 caliber centerfires through the 6.5mm class but the .20 cal SCHV calibers really interest me. .218, .219, .22H, 20mm, .222, .223, etc.

I guess AC/DC said it best: It ain't no fun waitin' 'round to be a millionaire....

And now there's no Ed McMahon to ring your doorbell either...

[rjohns94]

I considered a .222 when I was into varmit shooting, had a .223 semi in an H&K platform. Chose to build a custom 22-250 instead. Had a 6mmRem built too. Wound up trashing the barrel on the 22-250 on my first outing on prairie dogs. Went from hitting to missing real quick. Back then I had more money then sense I think. didn't know anything about barrel management. Wound up shooting 10,000 rounds of .223 through the H & K in 7 days. It came through ok. the 22-250 was burned up on the first day (I was an idiot), and the 6mm was used on the real long shots and served me well for many years. got rid of the 22-250 when i got back from the trip. sold the H&K collection after the first semi auto ban. Traded the 6mm for a bull barrel .308 which I shot then traded for an M-1A which I traded for ......

Seems I still have more $ than sense some times. Though the $ seems to be dewindling too.

[awp101]

Wound up trashing the barrel on the 22-250 on my first outing on prairie dogs. Went from hitting to missing real quick. Back then I had more money then sense I think. didn't know anything about barrel management. Wound up shooting 10,000 rounds of .223 through the H & K in 7 days. It came through ok. the 22-250 was burned up on the first day (I was an idiot), and the 6mm was used on the real long shots and served me well for many years. got rid of the 22-250 when i got back from the trip. sold the H&K collection after the first semi auto ban. Traded the 6mm for a bull barrel .308 which I shot then traded for an M-1A which I traded for ......

Seems I still have more $ than sense some times. Though the $ seems to be dewindling too.

Must have been one heck of an attack! A varmint wave attack?

Were the .22-250 rounds too hot or did the barrel get overheated from too many at once? I'm trying to limit my BLR .22-250 to 3600-3800fps and 5-10 minutes between mags ( I shoot groups with whatever the mag capacity is) to prolong barrel life. I doubt it saw much action before I got it and I want that barrel to outlast me. It already outshoots me (not much of a challenge ) and I hope to get it out to 100yds this weekend (been limited to 25yd sight in both previous range trips).

Traded this for that and then the other and not much sense? I resemble that...

[rjohns94]

I shot too many, too fast. shot the barrel out in an hour. As I remember, the loads were a "might hot" I was young and foolish and not much sense, I'm older now.

[6pt-sika]

Back in the day (about 10 years ago) I had a pair of Winchester Pre 64 Model 70 factory Varmint rifles . Both had stainless factory barrels . One was a 243 that was made in 1956 and the other was a Swift that was made in 1960 .

I shot the Nosler 70 BT out of the 243 and the Nosler 50 BT out of the Swift .

These were my primary groundhog rifles then ! And the 243 would consistantly shoot 5 shots in less then half an inch all the time as long as you didn't shoot it to fast . By that i mean you could shoot a 5 shot group quick , but then you needed to set it aside and let it cool . Also clean it after about 15 shots and shoot a fouler before you started up again .
When Nosler brought the 6mm 55 grain BT out I ran those things up to 4050 FPS with no problem but the best they would do at 100 was 3/4 inch .

At the same time the Swift would group 5 of the 50 Noslers in a 1/2 " at 100 as long as you stayed at about 3875 to 3900 and cleaned the barrel after two groups as well as not shooting more then 5 times without letting it cool down a bit . I used RL12 in that one as a matter of fact . Anyway I tried and tried to hot rod that 50 grain bullet up to 4000 and I was never able to get it with RL12 faster then about 3950 and then it blew the groups to heck .

When i got those two rifles they were both atleast 30 years old and they were still as good a shooters as you could expect from a brand new factory 700V and thats when Remington was still building good rifles .

The Swift went to a guy in South Dakota who wanted to use it for PD's . Not sure who I traded the 243 to ! Wish I had them both now