OT - Could use a prayer or two...(update)

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:05 am

*** guys - jump to the last posts - the update is at the end - this is an older post ***

Hate asking this for something as mundane as work, but I certainly could use a small quick prayer or two. I've been butting heads with our credit department (the "anti-sellers") for years now. We are not big fans of one another, and I think my picture has been on a dart board over there for a long time. I try to keep it professional, and our company has set up the sales and credit roles in a somewhat adversarial fashion. I've won a good number of our "encounters", which makes me even less popular with the management over there. Well yesterday one of the bean-counters thinks he's nailed me on a policy infraction, and is now trying his level best to make it a federal case and get me fired over it. I did what I did with the business and legal group's approval, but this guy is going to make my life miserable for as long as he can.

I'm glad I don't live in the same state, as this has crossed a line with me. I take threats to my employment - and thus my ability to provide for my family - very seriously.

If you don't mind, please say a quick prayer that I get through this, remaining gainfully-employed, and don't say or do anything rash (i.e. - pray for God's peace in me that I don't let my Irish temper get the best of me!).

Thanks fellas...

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:27 am

You bet Jay.......going out!

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:53 am

Done.

Think like a lawyer here. Think big picture.
Who is the most influential person over this issue that you have a good rapport with. How can you gain their support without sounding like a whiner or adding fuel to the bean-counter's senseless claims?

Who (maybe you) has a great knowledge of the complete set of policies that might be able to show a conflict between the claimed infraction and another policy. Or in the company's by-laws or mission statement.

Call me if you want to bounce some stuff around.

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:54 am

You got it. Stay calm, cool and collected. It always works better in my judgement.

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:09 am

Done.
Do what rangerider7 says

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:14 am

Prayers up my friend. I would seek legal counsel within the sales group, and if they offered your backing at the time, take it up the chain there and nip this at its source. However this turns out, remember that people are watching you and your actions and in the eternal perspective, how you react and reflect Grace, is just as important. You have my prayers and I am here if you need to chat about. blessings.

DixieBoy · Post by **DixieBoy** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:29 am

Kid - A prayer went up for you from here too. I'll bet you have God's voicemail loaded up pretty well by now.

I hear you about the threats to income. I'm just supporting myself, but it still cuts very close to the bone when your livelihood is threatened. It's a very primal thing.

I hope this works out with the decision makers in your situation seeing that you've made your own judgement calls with an eye to your employer's good. That should be what really counts. Keep us posted. - DixieBoy

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:41 am

On the list . . .

IMO, Tycer and Rangerider are giving you some great advice.

I run my own business; I'm the sales department and I'm the credit department. On one hand, you need the sales to generate the cashflow for cost of doing business and (hopefully) profit. On the other hand, you can't live with deadbeat customers who don't pay for 70-80-90-120 days, if at all. Sales are merely shipping dollars out the door unless there's checks and wire transfers coming in within 30-45 days, (and 60 days for stinkin' auto parts suppliers and automakers). As a small business, I cannot afford to be a bank to a small fraction of my customer base that can't seem to get a grip on their own cash flow. "I'm not getting paid, so you're not, either," is a familiar mantra. Well guess what? Next time I get a PO for a test, calibration, or programming job, it's payment in full before the report is issued, the device is shipped back, or the programming job is finished and the machine switched back on. There is much wailing and knashing of teeth, and threats to go elsewhere. In some cases, I've responded with "You say that as if it's a bad thing. I provided my serivce as requested and quoted, I held up my part of the contract. You acknowledged my 30 (or 45) day terms and now it's been three of four months. All I want is for you to meet your obligation and we'll both move on. Nothing personal, it's just business." So pay up, sucka!

I've "fired" a few customers that kept pushing the limit of payment terms. I've done that by sending price increases that drove them to leave for either of my two competitors. They were just the sort of customers that I want my competitors to have -- those that consume resources and never pay.

I am NOT saying you're a "Sales at Any Cost!" salesman, Kid. Far from it. You've got a head on your shoulders and you're not afraid to use it, and your heart is in the right place regarding your faith, family, and etc. My point: In large companies, goals and objectives become compartmentalized and departmentalized. I like to think of these departments as "functional silos" that limit the objectives to those of the department, and also limit the perceptions of those within a given department. And for anyone, myself included, our individual and departmental perceptions become our realities. All of that is counter-productive to accomplishing the broader, big-picture goal of the company making a profit.

Do think like a lawyer; find policies and documented previous practices or incidents that support your position, while at the same time try to find some common ground with the Credit and A/R people. In todays' business climate, those employees that have multiple skill sets and wide-reaching good working relationships in the organization (and friends in high places, of course!) are the valuable successful "keepers."

Please don't take the lecture the wrong way. Sometimes anger can be blinding, and I only want you to count von eins bis zehn several times, take a few deep breaths, and don't lose track of the big picture.

Again, you're on the list, and have my best wishes.

Noah

Pathfinder09 · Post by **Pathfinder09** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:52 am

Don't let the Bastar#@ get you down!

+1 with Rangerider. Take the high road and let the other guy look like the idiot!

Prayers to you.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:08 am

Prayers up and pulling for you Kid.

Noah Zark said:

...........................while at the same time try to find some common ground with the Credit and A/R people. In todays' business climate, those employees that have multiple skill sets and wide-reaching good working relationships in the organization (and friends in high places, of course!) are the valuable successful "keepers."

That's very true. Companies don't like a "ripple in the pond" so-to-speak and will often times eliminate the cause or causes of the ripple regardless of right or wrong. Get all of your ducks in a row so as to present your side of the case but be prepared to "bend" a little.

After this fray with the Credit Department, try to lay some common ground work and goals with them to smooth over your working relationship with them. Your company will appreciate it.

mod71alaska · Post by **mod71alaska** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:11 am

My prayer is for God's Peace in you and that your needs are met, Jay.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:32 am

Prayers sent for you!
What ever you do/what ever route you take, keep your cool.
In that type environment showing any type aggresiveness just
gives the other side the edge.They will focus on that aggression and your valid issue wont sink in.That is what that guy is hoping for.Dont give it to him! Good Luck.

Post by **Hobie** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:39 am

Prayers said that your needs be met...

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:17 am

Jay, prayers are on there way, meanwhile I'd follow rangeriders advice.

don Tomás · Post by **don Tomás** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:28 pm

Prayers up from all of us over here, brother Jay. Don't let 'em see you sweat...
Tom & Family

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:44 pm

Prayers for you, the Lord can take care of this for you, just continue to lean on Him.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:58 pm

YK, prayers sent. But, if he actually threatened you, talk to the boss. Most understand the problems such a threat can cause, and will deal with it quickly and quietly. Keep us posted.

GonnePhishin · Post by **GonnePhishin** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:02 pm

YK,

Prayers offered up for you. Turn it over to GOD through his SON JESUS and let him defend you. HE knows your heart and intentions, and will defend you if you let HIM.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:09 pm

Thanks fellas. I'm pretty sure I felt the power of your prayers all day long. I have the full support of my immediate manager and the business manager who I internally worked with to construct the contract, as well as the business legal counsel who we worked with to gain approval. The contract is worth over $2.4 million, most of it new sales, at a very good margin. Few and far between these days. I'm on solid ground and have elected not to respond to this clown at all. Now his boss is asking me questions, but with a much more professional tone. Still amazes me that this kind of stuff eats valuable time out of one's day, but that is life in a large corporation. NZ you nailed it - compartmentalized and departmentalized. One of the many axes this guys has for me was me pointing out that credit has a narrow and specific focus, whereas the commercial organization must consider wider ramifications (such as credit, supply chain, manufacturing, the market, competition, margins, risk, etc.). He really didn't like me pointing this out months ago!

This customer is an excellent payer, typically 100% current to reasonable terms. His complaint was that I used non-standard language on a contract...

I elected not to respond with a Blaine "bite me" comment.

I'm looking at my weekly credit report right now and my customers, in total, are 99.9% current (100% when you look at everything over 15 days past due). I work on this weekly; as you noted, sales is simply dollars exiting a company until you get paid. I'll put my performance in this aspect of my job up against anyone in the corporation globally...

Again, I appreciate all the thoughts, prayers, advice and offers to talk! You guys are the best!!!

mav · Post by **mav** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:32 pm

Done.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:33 pm

Sorry Jay, I just saw this tonight. I'll keep it in prayer. We all have problems from time to time with our jobs. Nothing is too small to take to the Lord.

Proverbs 21:1 The King's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: He turneth it withersoever he will.

TGBTG

1886 · Post by **1886** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:48 pm

Done Y.K. I bump heads with the "business prevention dept." regularly myself. I know how you feel. Prayers up. 1886.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:07 pm

Done
Can't give any advice that hasn't already been given.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:39 pm

rangerider7 wrote:You got it. Stay calm, cool and collected. It always works better in my judgement.

+1 & Prayers Up.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:41 pm

Prayers sent up, Jay.

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:04 am

Ysabel Kid wrote: . . . This customer is an excellent payer, typically 100% current to reasonable terms. (The Credit Guy's) complaint was that I used non-standard language on a contract . . . I'm looking at my weekly credit report right now and my customers, in total, are 99.9% current (100% when you look at everything over 15 days past due). I work on this weekly; as you noted, sales is simply dollars exiting a company until you get paid . . .

That's exactly what I expected from you, Jay. Everything squared-away and dress-right-dress. A great salesman watches his accounts like a hawk -- all aspects, not just trends of units sold per interval and dollar amounts, but also the A/R side of his accounts.

In my own business rarely are there two contracts the same. Each customer has some aspect of a job or terms that requires different language in quotations and business agreements. That's just the way it is; nothing in business is "black and white" and those that see everything in B&W terms tend to miss the big picture.

Jay, IMO it is a good sign that this Credit Guy's supervisor wants to dialog. My guess is he realizes that there are three sides to every story and wants to hear yours. As the others have said, be cool, calm, confident, honest and respectful with the supervisor (as I know you will) and you should be OK. Further, do what you can to continue development of your relationship with that supervisor in future.

Continued prayers . . .

Noah

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:38 am

Prayers said.

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:45 am

YK... I am sure you will in the most profesional way, cure your credit guy of his crainial retum-tosis.

My Dad's finest compliment to me was, " you chew *** without a profane word..... and with a smile on your face.." Thats what "calm cool and collected" do for ya. Having your ducks in a row helps too... it's hard to argue with a competent person....

Prayers up... seems like the nitwits are everywhere these days.

J

piller · Post by **piller** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:03 am

YK, prayers sent for protection and guidance for you, and prayers for the other guy that he may be allowed to release his anger and see what is best for the company.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:06 am

Done....
he will get his....
sooner or later..

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:25 pm

Quick update on this one fellas. I took everyone's advice and remained calm and professional. My management supported me 110% on this, and my manager's manager went to bat with the credit department supporting this valuable contract. It has been signed now. Customer is happy. We're happy. I'm really happy - in this economy, these "wins" are fewer and farther between. Everyone's happy - except for the little puke who started this fracas. Right now though he is digging himself a hole he may not get out of. I am sitting back and enjoying every minute of it!

Thanks for your prayers and support!!!

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:55 pm

If you set a good cause,
you will get a good effect,
if you set a bad cause,
you will get a bad effect.

BwanaDave · Post by **BwanaDave** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:39 am

These days improving the top line is number one, you are doing the right thing.

In regards to the weasle, I suggest you make amends and invite him out for some social activity. Say plinking. You could start off with something like, "did I ever tell you I collect guns?" followed by "you do know how to shoot don't you?". The clear implication being he lacks manhood. Once he has been goaded into going shooting drive him out to an isolated area for some plinking. On the way out talk about all the missing persons who just seemed to have disappeared in the area. Bring along the most lady like .22 you can find for his use. As you get set up hand him a box of .22 shorts. Before heading out adjust his sight so as to shoot six inches to the side at the distance to be shot. Demonstrate the gun to him hitting a can several times. Let him try. Shake you head in such a way as to communicate a mixture of pity, contempt and ridicule. Demonstrate again.

Now that he has been belittled break out your 44 mag (500 S&W would be better). Load up the cylinder with two regular loads followed by a hot load then some regular loads. Take two shots and hand him the gun. While he recovers you finish the cylinder.

At this point you could ask him if he is OK. Then make a comment about how guys in accounting don't get a chance to do stuff like this often.

During the outing look for a chance to slip a couple of condom packages into his pocket. If you can figure an excuse to be in his car, panties under the seat also have a good effect. If neither of those work, have a female call his home leaving a message " _______ it's your child too, where is the support you promised me?" repeat the call every three months.

The above should relieve you of future problems. If not I am sure I could come up with other ideas like putting an ounce of cocaine in his glove compartment and peeling off his registration sticker.

Dave

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:43 am

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:28 am

Well Done!

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:39 am

BwanaDave wrote:These days improving the top line is number one, you are doing the right thing.

In regards to the weasle, I suggest you make amends and invite him out for some social activity. Say plinking. You could start off with something like, "did I ever tell you I collect guns?" followed by "you do know how to shoot don't you?". The clear implication being he lacks manhood. Once he has been goaded into going shooting drive him out to an isolated area for some plinking. On the way out talk about all the missing persons who just seemed to have disappeared in the area. Bring along the most lady like .22 you can find for his use. As you get set up hand him a box of .22 shorts. Before heading out adjust his sight so as to shoot six inches to the side at the distance to be shot. Demonstrate the gun to him hitting a can several times. Let him try. Shake you head in such a way as to communicate a mixture of pity, contempt and ridicule. Demonstrate again.

Now that he has been belittled break out your 44 mag (500 S&W would be better). Load up the cylinder with two regular loads followed by a hot load then some regular loads. Take two shots and hand him the gun. While he recovers you finish the cylinder.

At this point you could ask him if he is OK. Then make a comment about how guys in accounting don't get a chance to do stuff like this often.

During the outing look for a chance to slip a couple of condom packages into his pocket. If you can figure an excuse to be in his car, panties under the seat also have a good effect. If neither of those work, have a female call his home leaving a message " _______ it's your child too, where is the support you promised me?" repeat the call every three months.

The above should relieve you of future problems. If not I am sure I could come up with other ideas like putting an ounce of cocaine in his glove compartment and peeling off his registration sticker.

Dave

Remind me to never pee you off!

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:56 pm

Remind me to never pee you off!

+1

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:36 pm

Great to hear. In this climate, companies need to be a bit more flexible on terms if they want the revenue than they may have been in the past. Where I'm at, we get a lot of financing for customers via Citi and GE. Both have tightened their approval matrixes even though they have also taken a good bit of TARP money. The internal credit people don't like the "flexing" that is required because they can't think beyond their internal processes that they've been doing the same way so long. But the business leaders can usually think beyond that when they see revenue at stake. It sounds like that's what happened in your case.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:17 pm

awesome, congrats, answered prayers for sure

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:07 pm

I never saw this post Jay, but glad that you prevailed over the bean counter. Some guys couldn't sell love on a love starved troup train, but they sure think they run the credit department well, maybe we need them, but we need sales guys with talent to go out and deal with mean spirited tough people and get their order too. Congrats.

BwanaDave · Post by **BwanaDave** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:49 pm

I hope my post above was in the spirit of the discussion. I strongly believe that God helps those that help themselves so I tend to lean toward taking action. After re-reading your initial post I realized the bean counter was in another state so some of my ideas might not work. Therefore I have another one that is easy to do. Call his home during business hours. If some one answers leave a message for him to call Joey and that he has the number.

Repeat the call several times until you get an answering machine then leave the following in a swishy voice: " Hi this is Joey. I just left the clinic and they said it isn't AIDs but you should see your doctor. Since we have already been... you know... there is no reason for us to stop but we shouldn't be with anyone else. I'll be at the rest stop at the same time, let me know if you can't make it."

The above should distract him from bothering you going forward.

Always ready to help a friend in need.

Dave