45 Colt loading question
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45 Colt loading question
I just purchaed a Browning Low Wall in 45 Colt. And this is the first 45 Colt that I have reloaded for. I have loaded a few shells with 2400 and a large pistol primer. I have found thast this load of 18 grains of 2400 is leaving a lot of "dirt" in the barrel. I have not noticed 2400 to be dirty in my 44 magnums, that is not nearly as dirty as it is in my 45 Colt. However I do use magnum primers in my 44 magnums. However everthing I have read about the 45 Colt says to stay away from the magnum primers. And I have a bunch of large pistol primers, and few large pistol magnum primers.
I am thinking about using another powder. So I am asking for powder recommendations. However I would like to limit the recommendations to powders that give 70% or better case fill. So this would be charges of approximately 14 or more grains with the 255 grain Keith that I am casting. And I would like the powder to be a clean burning powder.
I thought about Unique, however I am just a little hesitant about the lack of case fill with unique??
I am not really looking for a heavy "magnum" load. I am just looking for a comfortable hunting load for distances out to 150 or 200 yards. Thanks, Tom.
I am thinking about using another powder. So I am asking for powder recommendations. However I would like to limit the recommendations to powders that give 70% or better case fill. So this would be charges of approximately 14 or more grains with the 255 grain Keith that I am casting. And I would like the powder to be a clean burning powder.
I thought about Unique, however I am just a little hesitant about the lack of case fill with unique??
I am not really looking for a heavy "magnum" load. I am just looking for a comfortable hunting load for distances out to 150 or 200 yards. Thanks, Tom.
Re: 45 Colt loading question
25 grs 4198
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Re: 45 Colt loading question
If ya want a load with a full case in the .45Colt... use BP. 3F for velocity, 2F for boom and smoke! Be conscientious with your loading and go to something like RedDot or Unique. 700X is another good .45 Colt powder. I used to have a recommendation from Accurate Powders for their 5744 in the .45Colt, but don't have the email any longer. I know that if you email any of the powder companies they'll send you a recommendation for various powders... your specific powder if you have one in mind.
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Re: 45 Colt loading question
With "magnum" loads, I use magnum primers. That would include any load with a 2400 class powder in .45 Colt. I like 4227 for something a little less than totally "to the wall" loads, yet close. For the bigest wallop, H110 is preferred.
That said, a mag primer and yer 2400 load wouldn't be BAD, even though YES, it's not a totally disappearing type powder. If ya shoot yer .44 mag revolver over snow with 2400, you'll see where the stuff ends up. In a rifle much more of it ends up in the bore than on the ground, that's the only difference.
Another "snappy" powder that is cleaner than either 2400 or Unique is Power Pistol (uses regular primers). It'll provide 85 or 90% of the velocity of the slower stuff, meters superbly, and is in it's element at oh, 1200-1400 fps with that bullet outta the rifle. Again, not a monster, but snappy enough and fully capable of fine accuracy.
That said, a mag primer and yer 2400 load wouldn't be BAD, even though YES, it's not a totally disappearing type powder. If ya shoot yer .44 mag revolver over snow with 2400, you'll see where the stuff ends up. In a rifle much more of it ends up in the bore than on the ground, that's the only difference.
Another "snappy" powder that is cleaner than either 2400 or Unique is Power Pistol (uses regular primers). It'll provide 85 or 90% of the velocity of the slower stuff, meters superbly, and is in it's element at oh, 1200-1400 fps with that bullet outta the rifle. Again, not a monster, but snappy enough and fully capable of fine accuracy.
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Re: 45 Colt loading question
Don McDowell wrote:25 grs 4198
+1 I've been very happy with this powder in .45 Colt and lead boolit .41 magnum loads. Good stuff!
Re: 45 Colt loading question
When you guys say 4198. I assume you are talking about IMR4198?? And does it burn clean?? With a large pistol primer??
How dirty is H110 in a rifle with large pistol primers?? Tom.
How dirty is H110 in a rifle with large pistol primers?? Tom.
Re: 45 Colt loading question
Yup, yep, yes
Not bad
Not bad
Re: 45 Colt loading question
There are plenty of good loads out there, and you've already been given some good ideas. I'll add this note about 2400, though. It has been my experience that if I don't use one heckuva crimp, I always get unburned powder in the bore, whether the primer is non-magnum or magnum. The crimp I use would definitely be considered too much for any other round I load, but it works fine with the 2400.
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Re: 45 Colt loading question
I've shot hundreds of rounds of 45 Colt with Unique in both rifle and Colt SAA's and I've never had a problem. I use 7.8 grs. with a 250-255 gr. RNLFP because it shoots to POA in my Colt SAA's and groups well in my Marlin.
Old Law Dawg
Re: 45 Colt loading question
IMHO 2400 works best with a beastly heavy crimp and heavier bullets. It will always leave some powder in the bore but this helps. Unique is great for non magnum loads that will still get the job done out to 100 yards or so. If you want a cheap plinker load get your self some Tite Group a little goes goes a long way and it is really clean. Both the Unique and the Tite Group use large pistol primers you really need mag primers for the 2400.
Jeremy
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- J Miller
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Re: 45 Colt loading question
Tom,
Bump that 2400 charge up to 18.5grs, bump the bullet diameter up to .454", and as JReed said put a really heavy crimp on it. By heavy crimp I mean roll that crimp into the crimp grove all the way to the bottom.
I shoot this load from all my .45 Colt rifles, and my OM Ruger BH and it's the cleanest load I've got. 2400 doesn't like to be loaded light. It needs pressure to burn clean.
Joe
Bump that 2400 charge up to 18.5grs, bump the bullet diameter up to .454", and as JReed said put a really heavy crimp on it. By heavy crimp I mean roll that crimp into the crimp grove all the way to the bottom.
I shoot this load from all my .45 Colt rifles, and my OM Ruger BH and it's the cleanest load I've got. 2400 doesn't like to be loaded light. It needs pressure to burn clean.
Joe
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Re: 45 Colt loading question
I was hoping I did not have to put a crimp on the bullets for the Low Wall. I wanted to extend my case life as long as possible. But I may have too.
Also I have a couple of pounds of Blue Dot on the shelf. How clean will that burn in a rifle?? Tom.
Also I have a couple of pounds of Blue Dot on the shelf. How clean will that burn in a rifle?? Tom.
Re: 45 Colt loading question
Bluedot shoots quite nice in the 45 colt,altho it won't replace unique as my favorite powder, it does shoot some "cleaner" than unique or 2400. But to be honest as much bp as I shoot I sort of get the giggles when I see people fussing about this or that smokeless powder being "dirty"
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Re: 45 Colt loading question
JReed wrote:IMHO 2400 works best with a beastly heavy crimp and heavier bullets. It will always leave some powder in the bore but this helps. Unique is great for non magnum loads that will still get the job done out to 100 yards or so. If you want a cheap plinker load get your self some Tite Group a little goes goes a long way and it is really clean. Both the Unique and the Tite Group use large pistol primers you really need mag primers for the 2400.
JReed if You don't mind me asking,What is Your load for the Tite group? I was given a 1 pound bottle of it and I've not come up with anything else to use it in. since I go through more .45 Colt than anything else I'm interested in trying it out. (Nothing like free powder.)
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Re: 45 Colt loading question
Hey Tom,
I've found the thinner Winchester brass fire-formed and neck sized only to be used solely for the one rifle(mine's a Marlin), plus a .454" 250gn RNFP or BigLube PRS45-250 RNFP with heavy crimp works well for me. 10.0gn Universal or 32-35gnVol fffg over a Federal LP primer works a treat.
HTH
Mucus
I've found the thinner Winchester brass fire-formed and neck sized only to be used solely for the one rifle(mine's a Marlin), plus a .454" 250gn RNFP or BigLube PRS45-250 RNFP with heavy crimp works well for me. 10.0gn Universal or 32-35gnVol fffg over a Federal LP primer works a treat.
HTH
Mucus
"Outlaw firearms and only the outlaws will have them."
Re: 45 Colt loading question
I use H110 in the .45 Colt rifle and use magnum primers. I'm at a loss about "clean" burning. It seems to me that the concept is so subjective as to be a meaningless discussion without comparative photos. I will say that I've never had a smokeless load with any powder in which the residue was sufficient to cause malfunctions, reduced accuracy, or higher pressures. That's how I define clean.
Sincerely,
Hobie
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- J Miller
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Re: 45 Colt loading question
A follow up to my previous post: I use standard Win WLP primers with my 2400 loads. I've never found the need for magnums.
I agree with Hobie's assertion of clean burning powders. However I have run into one powder that burned so incompletely that there was so much unburned powder I did have gun malfunctions. That was with A 5744. I tried a number of things and finally gave it a CCI #300 mag primer. That seemed to do it. But I'll never buy another any more.
As for cleanliness, compare the filthiest Unique load to black power and you won't care any more.
Joe
I agree with Hobie's assertion of clean burning powders. However I have run into one powder that burned so incompletely that there was so much unburned powder I did have gun malfunctions. That was with A 5744. I tried a number of things and finally gave it a CCI #300 mag primer. That seemed to do it. But I'll never buy another any more.
As for cleanliness, compare the filthiest Unique load to black power and you won't care any more.
Joe
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Re: 45 Colt loading question
I agree with those who say clean burning smokeless is subjective etc. etc....
Joe, I have shot loads of 5744 that leave so much unburned powder I have had dents in my cases caused by powder chunks laying in the chamber. The next case fire forms over them leaving a dented case. The dents fire form back out in the next loading though so no damage really just a pain.
Joe, I have shot loads of 5744 that leave so much unburned powder I have had dents in my cases caused by powder chunks laying in the chamber. The next case fire forms over them leaving a dented case. The dents fire form back out in the next loading though so no damage really just a pain.
Re: 45 Colt loading question
I shoot quite a bit of 5744, and yup there's old maid kernels hanging about, but I have never ever had a gun malfunction due to them, or seen any of them tuff enough to dent a case. Mostly they just turn to mush when you bother them. Here again its like 2400 more pressure less left overs.
Still think if you can find a can of the now defunct Elephant brand bp, and load a few round , you'll quitcher whin about dirty smokeless.
Still think if you can find a can of the now defunct Elephant brand bp, and load a few round , you'll quitcher whin about dirty smokeless.
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Re: 45 Colt loading question
H-110 is NOT suggested for cast bullet loads; it burns off the back of the bullet.adirondakjack wrote:With "magnum" loads, I use magnum primers. That would include any load with a 2400 class powder in .45 Colt. I like 4227 for something a little less than totally "to the wall" loads, yet close. For the bigest wallop, H110 is preferred.
I'd just switch to Lil' gun; you get more power at lower pressure. Lemme know your results if you try magnum primers with 2400; I'd been considering the same thing.
Hunter Ed. instructor
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Re: 45 Colt loading question
HEAD0001 wrote:When you guys say 4198. I assume you are talking about IMR4198?? And does it burn clean?? With a large pistol primer??
How dirty is H110 in a rifle with large pistol primers?? Tom.
For best results, use magnum primers with H-110.
Hunter Ed. instructor
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Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. Psalm 1
NRA Basic pistol Inst.
NRA Personal protection inst.
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Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. Psalm 1
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Re: 45 Colt loading question
Here's another favorite that burns pretty clean.
200 Gr. lead SWC
CCI LP primers
6.4 Gr. Universal
200 Gr. lead SWC
CCI LP primers
6.4 Gr. Universal
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Re: 45 Colt loading question
The load above is easy shooting but it will make a Coyote do the "stiff-legged flop".
Re: 45 Colt loading question
You guys do not understand. This rifle is so PURDY that I do not even want any dirt on the inside of the barrel!!!
I am in load development stage on this rifle. So I just could not see what it would hurt to develop a load with a cleaner powder?? I really do not think dirty barrels are subjective. I just think they are dirty barrels.
I may just give up on the 70% case fill and go with Red Dot powder. I have a bunch of it on the bench for my 12 gauge shells. So what the heck. And I really prefer not to crimp the loads. And I have far too many large pistol primers to switch to magnum pistol primers.
And for the BP guys. I am going to do some BP shooting with this rifle. But that is another story for another day.
I realize I am asking a lot of questions about this one particular cartridge. However I have been reloading for over 30 years. And I have never seen more conflicting data in a single cartridge before, until I started loading for the 45 Colt. I have seen swings of as much as 5 or 6 grains of powder as max. loads for different powders.
Now I realize that is because of the different firearms that the Colt can be shot in. However I have also found conflicting data for modern firearms. Tom.
I am in load development stage on this rifle. So I just could not see what it would hurt to develop a load with a cleaner powder?? I really do not think dirty barrels are subjective. I just think they are dirty barrels.
I may just give up on the 70% case fill and go with Red Dot powder. I have a bunch of it on the bench for my 12 gauge shells. So what the heck. And I really prefer not to crimp the loads. And I have far too many large pistol primers to switch to magnum pistol primers.
And for the BP guys. I am going to do some BP shooting with this rifle. But that is another story for another day.
I realize I am asking a lot of questions about this one particular cartridge. However I have been reloading for over 30 years. And I have never seen more conflicting data in a single cartridge before, until I started loading for the 45 Colt. I have seen swings of as much as 5 or 6 grains of powder as max. loads for different powders.
Now I realize that is because of the different firearms that the Colt can be shot in. However I have also found conflicting data for modern firearms. Tom.
Re: 45 Colt loading question
[quote="Travis MorganH-110 is NOT suggested for cast bullet loads; it burns off the back of the bullet.
I'd just switch to Lil' gun; you get more power at lower pressure. Lemme know your results if you try magnum primers with 2400; I'd been considering the same thing.[/quote]
Hogdons doesn't recommend Lilgun for cast either unless you're shooting gas checks, and more power for less pressure isn't prooving out since its original introduction either.
I'd just switch to Lil' gun; you get more power at lower pressure. Lemme know your results if you try magnum primers with 2400; I'd been considering the same thing.[/quote]
Hogdons doesn't recommend Lilgun for cast either unless you're shooting gas checks, and more power for less pressure isn't prooving out since its original introduction either.
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Re: 45 Colt loading question
Hogdons doesn't recommend Lilgun for cast either unless you're shooting gas checks, and more power for less pressure isn't prooving out since its original introduction either.[/quote]Don McDowell wrote:[quote="Travis MorganH-110 is NOT suggested for cast bullet loads; it burns off the back of the bullet.
I'd just switch to Lil' gun; you get more power at lower pressure. Lemme know your results if you try magnum primers with 2400; I'd been considering the same thing.
My good friend, who has tested it extensively, would beg to differ. He gets really good results with the cast, plain base bullets.
ETA: I'm not saying you're wrong, I just trust and respect his opinion, and have observed his results.
Hunter Ed. instructor
NRA Basic pistol Inst.
NRA Personal protection inst.
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Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. Psalm 1
NRA Basic pistol Inst.
NRA Personal protection inst.
NRA Range safety officer
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. Psalm 1
Re: 45 Colt loading question
Oh I get good results with plain based bullet with lilgun as well. I do however have a letter from Phil Hogdon that is in reply to questions I asked him about the stuff when they first introduced it, and he says its like H110, needs 90% load density, heavy bullet pull, and not recommended for cast bullets , just like H110.
The velocity I got with the stuff isn't anything to get excited about, except for in the 357, then me and my chrono both got called bold faced liars, when I posted the results I got from 100 rounds tested.
Anyway it does work well in the Colt but just hasn't ever done anything that made me think its better in that cartridge than unique or 2400
Plus in the lowall rifle in question here it may just be a real winner for both accuracy and velocity, but unless and until the loader in charge of this rifle tries it, it'll all be speculation.
The velocity I got with the stuff isn't anything to get excited about, except for in the 357, then me and my chrono both got called bold faced liars, when I posted the results I got from 100 rounds tested.
Anyway it does work well in the Colt but just hasn't ever done anything that made me think its better in that cartridge than unique or 2400
Plus in the lowall rifle in question here it may just be a real winner for both accuracy and velocity, but unless and until the loader in charge of this rifle tries it, it'll all be speculation.
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Re: 45 Colt loading question
Howdy
With all due respect, what is the big deal about a 'clean burning' load? I could understand it if we were talking about a finicky semi-auto, that might tend to jam if too much gunk works its way into the mechanism. But you're talking about a single shot rifle, for Pete's sake. There is no feed mechanism, all you do is open the breech and shove a round in. You don't want to get the barrel dirty inside, because it's too pretty? Give me a break. The objective should be accuracy, not how clean the load burns.
If you want to get the 45 Colt to burn clean, you have to crimp it, and the crimp has to be firm. That huge case was designed to hold 40 grains of Black Powder. With a lot of empty space inside you will not get a good burn going, and you will always have some unburnt powder. You will also get smokey brass from gas blowing by the brass in the chamber. If you want clean brass, although I cannot understand why guys think this is so important either, you must boost the pressure up so the brass obturates enough to completely seal the chamber. In the process, you will make the powder burn cleaner. Frankly, the only reason I see for clean brass is to find it in the grass, but with a single shot that is not a problem either. Don't worry about over crimping the brass and shortening its life, I have reloaded some of my 45 brass so many times that I've lost count.
Personally, I usually load 45 Colt with 2.2CC of FFg Black Powder, behind a 250 grain Big Lube bullet. Now you're talking some major soot and fouling. My favorite Smokeless powder, Unique, doesn't even come close.
With all due respect, what is the big deal about a 'clean burning' load? I could understand it if we were talking about a finicky semi-auto, that might tend to jam if too much gunk works its way into the mechanism. But you're talking about a single shot rifle, for Pete's sake. There is no feed mechanism, all you do is open the breech and shove a round in. You don't want to get the barrel dirty inside, because it's too pretty? Give me a break. The objective should be accuracy, not how clean the load burns.
If you want to get the 45 Colt to burn clean, you have to crimp it, and the crimp has to be firm. That huge case was designed to hold 40 grains of Black Powder. With a lot of empty space inside you will not get a good burn going, and you will always have some unburnt powder. You will also get smokey brass from gas blowing by the brass in the chamber. If you want clean brass, although I cannot understand why guys think this is so important either, you must boost the pressure up so the brass obturates enough to completely seal the chamber. In the process, you will make the powder burn cleaner. Frankly, the only reason I see for clean brass is to find it in the grass, but with a single shot that is not a problem either. Don't worry about over crimping the brass and shortening its life, I have reloaded some of my 45 brass so many times that I've lost count.
Personally, I usually load 45 Colt with 2.2CC of FFg Black Powder, behind a 250 grain Big Lube bullet. Now you're talking some major soot and fouling. My favorite Smokeless powder, Unique, doesn't even come close.
I don't know where we're going but there's no sense being late.
Re: 45 Colt loading question
I sent you a PM.SmokeEater2 wrote:JReed wrote:IMHO 2400 works best with a beastly heavy crimp and heavier bullets. It will always leave some powder in the bore but this helps. Unique is great for non magnum loads that will still get the job done out to 100 yards or so. If you want a cheap plinker load get your self some Tite Group a little goes goes a long way and it is really clean. Both the Unique and the Tite Group use large pistol primers you really need mag primers for the 2400.
JReed if You don't mind me asking,What is Your load for the Tite group? I was given a 1 pound bottle of it and I've not come up with anything else to use it in. since I go through more .45 Colt than anything else I'm interested in trying it out. (Nothing like free powder.)
Jeremy
GySgt USMC Ret
To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy
Semper Fidelis
GySgt USMC Ret
To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy
Semper Fidelis