OT: Color Case Hardening is UGLY

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Thu May 07, 2009 5:50 pm

Am I the only one that thinks "Color Case Hardening" is UGLY? Especially the jobs that are bright and really stand out. Subtle "Color Case Hardening" isn't too bad but this new stuff is just ridiculous.

Take a look at the receiver (first picture under Finishing) that has been "Color Case Hardened" on this link:

http://www.turnbullrestoration.com/stor ... atid=19872

IT IS UGLY !!!!

My .02¢

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Thu May 07, 2009 6:16 pm

I do like color case hardening but I prefer it with more subtle changes and slower rolling of the colors. The picture you show there has too many contrasting or sharp blue points for my taste. I think it needs a light yellow tint to the laquering to help tone it down a bit. In fact, that picture may be of the receiver prior to the final finish.

I do like the subtle colors rolling behind the engraving on this particular rifle on his site though. I must admit though that the engraving and gold are out front and the case colors are more of the backdrop.

I really favor colors like this ... somewhat less busy if you will.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu May 07, 2009 6:18 pm

I agree, the best is where the colore barely change from one to another

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Thu May 07, 2009 6:23 pm

Rimfire - The coloring on your second picture isn't too bad but still a bit too standoutish for my taste. I do like the engraving and gold of the first picture.

My first preference is always bluing.

dr walker · Post by **dr walker** » Thu May 07, 2009 6:25 pm

Are you just teasing?
I love color case hardening. Some of it is a bit bright, but it will mellow with age and use.

My wife always reminds me "there is no accounting for people's taste".

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Thu May 07, 2009 6:30 pm

There were huge differences in the finished product and process between Winchester, Marlin, and Stevens. They were almost like a trademark.

Stevens was dipped in molten cyanide and gave a "tiger stripe" effect.

Marlin was bone/charcoal and this is not a really good example either.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Thu May 07, 2009 6:31 pm

I love old case hardening, but that Turnbull gun is too flashy/gaudy/bright for my taste. I like the examples in Rimfires's photos much better.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu May 07, 2009 6:43 pm

Naw, those colors are just fine. Give 'em a couple hunting seasons and other general use and they'll start to fade out nicely.

Joe

Post by **Hobie** » Thu May 07, 2009 6:51 pm

You must be. I love color case hardening. BEAUTIFUL!

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Thu May 07, 2009 7:02 pm

It has its place.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Thu May 07, 2009 7:05 pm

I like it real contrasting. The splashes on that example are a bit big for me. I do love CCH though.

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Thu May 07, 2009 7:07 pm

I dont know about ugly, i kinda like it.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Thu May 07, 2009 7:08 pm

Put me in the "I like it list" . Bolder the better! That way it will last longer.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Thu May 07, 2009 7:14 pm

I much prefer the old nitre blue, especially after it ages. Case hardening doesn't do much for me, either. It really is not durable and will fade with use and exposure to light, weather, and the oils of the human body. Silvered out case colors look rather like bare metal, but that's not too bad.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Thu May 07, 2009 7:21 pm

I like CCH. If it is to bright at first it will mellow out a lot with use.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu May 07, 2009 7:27 pm

I do think sometimes it is gaudy when new.

Even though I really like my little 'ugly duckling' Ruger leverguns, I think the case-hardened levers with blued receivers just looks STRANGE. Either do it all or none of it, in my opinion...

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Thu May 07, 2009 7:46 pm

I love color casehardening, if it's correct for the type of gun. As jdad said, each was different. His CPA 44 1/2 has the nice correct Stevens style striped cyanide colors, and looks perfect.
The colors that Turnbull uses are very nice, but on a Winchester that just isn't the correct color. On a Marlin it would look much closer to correct.
I think the work Mike Hunter did on "1886's" model 86 Browning is much closer to what a Win. should be.
I really like the contrast of blued and case color. The old Marlins with their blued bolts and screws and a cased receiver really appeal to me! Same thing for the Rems. with their blued hammers, blocks, and screws, with cased receivers. Just sets them off and balances well. I'm not too fond of all cased, or all blued; just looks like too much of one thing, like an all white car.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Thu May 07, 2009 7:47 pm

I love all the CCH. Like stated, a little time and they all fade or mellow out.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Thu May 07, 2009 7:53 pm

I love the look of authentic bone & charcoal color case hardening. On the other hand, I do not like the chemical color 'case hardening'.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu May 07, 2009 7:59 pm

Love it on them nice levers!!!!!!!!!!

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu May 07, 2009 8:05 pm

I don't care for the real bright stuff as on my 1860 C&B so I put cold blue on it and now it is a gray black which I like better. On the other hand I like Colt's version.

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Thu May 07, 2009 8:15 pm

I love case color and to my mind Turnbull does it the best. If its not your taste please send the case colored guns to me!

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Thu May 07, 2009 8:32 pm

To my tastes theres not much like a nice case colored finish. If I have a choice I'll opt for case colors every time.

No two guns will ever be the same either.
(its the same 336 in both the 2nd & 5th pictures, in the top picture its wearing new wood)

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu May 07, 2009 8:33 pm

I like it but............I do agree that Doug's colors are mighty bright, but.........(again) thats the way they were when the guns were new. I once had a '93 Marlin that was new (as in 1912) that the colors jumped at you. The below pics are from a SA Colt I have that was made in 1917 and a Trapdoor made in '88. I personally think they are nice. The last pic is a first month 39 Marlin that belongs to my buddy, Tom.--------Sixgun

,

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu May 07, 2009 10:03 pm

I love the look of CCH, especially when the hues are vivid, but not distracting. CCH done well is probably my favorite finish. I have seen plenty of poor jobs - either too stark in contrast, or too dull. Then again, I've seen bad bluing and horrible nickel jobs too. Pretty much, like with most else in life, you get what you pay for...

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Thu May 07, 2009 11:57 pm

I like color case.

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Fri May 08, 2009 12:09 am

put me down for liking.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:02 am

Sixgun wrote:

OMG. That 39 is right on the money.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:29 am

One thing I want to make perfectly clear is that I am NOT knocking anyone's guns. That's just not my style. There have been some really nice looking guns posted in this thread. The gun that "Pokey" posted with the Color Case Hardened receiver that has been engraved is beautiful. Just because I don't like Color Case Hardening does not mean that I think that guns that have been treated as such are ugly. You (meaning I) have to take into consideration the entire gun not just the Color Case Hardened part. My preference is an all blued gun and to some extent a well worn gun can be just as attrative/alluring as a brand-spanking-new gun.

Lots of nice guns pictured in this thread. Thanks for sharing.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:36 am

I didn't take you as knocking anything really, just used it as an excuse to post a few pictures.

hondo1892 · Post by **hondo1892** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:40 am

I would rather have a nice blue job myself. But I like colts with cch.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:45 am

I don't particularly care for it myself either... though back in the day it served a purpose.

It still serves a purpose though in some areas though. To wit: ppg 70-71 of Expedient Home-made Firearms by Philip Luty:

As an alternative to bluing, the weapon can be finished to a case-hardened effect. This is my personal favorite, since it is truly expedient and only requires a gas torch and a small amount of oil. While this is not true case hardening, it is a similar good looking and durable finish. Just as with bluing, all visible external surfaces must be polished smooth, but degreasing sections of the weapon is unnecessary for the following process. First the gun is stripped, but only down to its major component parts. The magazine is disassembled, but the pistol grip is not removed. With all necessary parts removed, the receivers are bolted together and the recoil shield inserted back into position. A small amount of light oil is smeared onto the external surfaces of the receiver assembly, but not too much; a few drops are perfectly adequate.
Starting at one end of the assembly, the flame of a gas torch is applied approximately 1” from the surface of the steel. The flame should not be moved around but held in the same position for approximately 20 to 30 seconds until heat rings, appear, which indicate that the steel has changed color. This process is repeated at intervals of about 2” along the entire length of both receivers until all sides have been heated and all oil has evaporated. The magazine body is finished in exactly the same way, but all internal parts are removed first, since any significant heat applied to a spring will destroy it. The barrel must not be finished using this process unless the two barrel tubes were silver-soldered together, since any significant heat applied to bearing adhesive will melt it. Barrel tubes held together with adhesive must either be blued or left the natural steel color. The full case-hardening colors will not become apparent until the steel has cooled partially, at which point, with the steel still warm, a small amount of oil is applied to the receiver assembly and magazine. With a steel wool wad of fine or medium grade, each side of the receivers, grip, and magazine is very lightly polished. The oil will prevent the steel wool from scratching and bring out the full color case-hardened effect. Finally, any surplus oil is wiped off with a clean cloth or paper towel and the weapon is reassembled.
The end result is an attractive, durable finish and, best of all, is almost foolproof to create because the gas torch and oil do all the work. Remember, these are expedient finishes and are not intended to compete with the sophisticated methods employed in arms factories or gunsmith shops. Providing the machine gun is not dragged along the ground behind a pick-up truck, the blued or heat- colored finishes described here are quick to apply, attractive, and durable.

So... if you can't blue it, an oil CCH is a great expedient rust-inhibiting finish.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:55 am

The CCH on my Ruger was done by Turnbull and photos just can't do it justice.
I agree that there are some jobs out there that are a little over done but
this particular sixgun looks far better now than it ever did. (To Me)

jb

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Fri May 08, 2009 12:28 pm

I am in the "love it" category !

Cant post any examples because i don't have one yet, but i am one who really likes the contrast and flashiness of the Turnbull CCH's. That Stevens on the first page with the Tiger Stripe pattern also makes me swoon

JustaJeepGuy · Post by **JustaJeepGuy** » Fri May 08, 2009 1:44 pm

Give me stainless steel any day.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Fri May 08, 2009 3:21 pm

Leverdude wrote:I didn't take you as knocking anything really, just used it as an excuse to post a few pictures.

+1

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri May 08, 2009 3:24 pm

Modoc ED wrote:One thing I want to make perfectly clear is that I am NOT knocking anyone's guns. That's just not my style. There have been some really nice looking guns posted in this thread. The gun that "Pokey" posted with the Color Case Hardened receiver that has been engraved is beautiful. Just because I don't like Color Case Hardening does not mean that I think that guns that have been treated as such are ugly. You (meaning I) have to take into consideration the entire gun not just the Color Case Hardened part. My preference is an all blued gun and to some extent a well worn gun can be just as attrative/alluring as a brand-spanking-new gun.

Lots of nice guns pictured in this thread. Thanks for sharing.

Dittos - emphasis added...

Grizzly Adams · Post by **Grizzly Adams** » Fri May 08, 2009 6:08 pm

I too think that some of the work done now days is a bit garish. Here are a couple of examples I think strike a good balance.

Winchester 1876

Winchester 1873

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Fri May 08, 2009 6:09 pm

Ed, I hope you didn't take anything I said seriously. I was only giving you a hard time. I like the looks of almost all firearms. The old ones that have browned or silvered are just as pretty to me as a new CCH or blued one, sometimes prettier. The cyanide treated ones kind of turn me off becuase the finish doesn't look right to begin with and it's very fragile.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Fri May 08, 2009 6:44 pm

kimwcook wrote:Ed, I hope you didn't take anything I said seriously. I was only giving you a hard time. I like the looks of almost all firearms. The old ones that have browned or silvered are just as pretty to me as a new CCH or blued one, sometimes prettier. The cyanide treated ones kind of turn me off becuase the finish doesn't look right to begin with and it's very fragile.

That's ok. No harm, no foul. We've all got our preferences. It's just some of the stuff now-a-days is garish and gaudy. The link I provided for Turnball proves it in my opinion.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Grizzly Adams - Yes, those two examples are very nice. Subdued and well done.

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Fri May 08, 2009 7:21 pm

Hey I'm glad you brought the topic up! It's a great discussion, and although many people like CCH, a lot of us have different reasons to like it. Great thread.

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Fri May 08, 2009 11:07 pm

Sixgun wrote:
Leverdude wrote:I didn't take you as knocking anything really, just used it as an excuse to post a few pictures.
+1

+2 and thanks for the kind words.

Aussie Chris · Post by **Aussie Chris** » Sat May 09, 2009 4:46 am

I like things a little subtle. Here is my only case coloured rifle

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat May 09, 2009 9:48 am

Don't really care for the bright, splashy look, but a properly faded and genuine look is wonderful

Old Shatterhand · Post by **Old Shatterhand** » Sun May 10, 2009 12:39 pm

Husqvarna got some greenish teint in the charcoal case hardening by adding old military boots to the charcoal. The shotgun is model 310/D box lock, and the rolling blocks mod 33 bird rifle.

Old Sh.

Mike Hunter · Post by **Mike Hunter** » Mon May 11, 2009 1:19 pm

Old Sh

Your Comment: "Husqvarna got some greenish teint in the charcoal case hardening by adding old military boots to the charcoal."

do you know this for a fact??

Mike

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Mon May 11, 2009 5:56 pm

Nice Rollers Old Shatterhand! I've got a Type 33A also, and the colors Husq. did on these old Rollers were very nice indeed!

AJD · Post by **AJD** » Mon May 11, 2009 6:31 pm

I love CCH. Like alot of things with guns sometimes it grows on you and that was the case with me. I would also say that certain guns just look best with certain finishes.

My Browning B-92 looks just right with a blued reciever but my Uberti 73 rifle just seems more at home with a case colored reciever(I know its not the real stuff but it's still pretty close in appearance).

Several of the new S&W "Classics" can be purchased with a CCH frame but it just looks a little odd to me when a 1917 revolver has a CCH frame. Put a CCH finish on a Colt SAA frame and you have something special.

winchester1886 · Post by **winchester1886** » Mon May 11, 2009 6:53 pm

I can take it or leave it but I don't like the real bright colors look a bit cheap to me, being addicted to 86's the strongest one's have blued actions (nothing to do with the case colors) so I tend to go with them infact would never buy one that wasn't smokeless. The only other rifles I would buy are 92's or 94's and they have blued actions anyway. I know one thing about case coloring it sure adds lots of dollars to old Winchester's compared to blued ones.

jd45 · Post by **jd45** » Mon May 11, 2009 9:58 pm

You are WRONG, Ed. What you should've said is "IN MY OPINION, case-hardening is ugly." As the saying goes, "beauty is in the eye of the looker". jd45