Opinions Please : Red Dot Sights Vs Peep Sights

[Jacko]

I finally got to the range to try out the Skinner sight set I have put on my Rossi 92 .357 mag . I am happy with these dovetail mounted Peep sights , good looking , simple , rugged and inexpensive and when I do my part accurate .

Trouble is when using the smallest aperture , a .050 the target is out of focus but the front blade is sharp The aperture is ghosted so I am not focusing on it rather I am looking through it . I shoot smaller groups with the small aperture but it is quite taxing trying to hold the same sight picture shot to shot when the target is out of focus . When I switch to a .096 aperture the target and front blade sight are clear but difficult to be precise with . It shoots minute of Pig Goat or Deer but the rifle is capable of finer accuracy than this . Twice today I fluked the same hold and the rifle shot 3 shot cloverleaf groups at 50 yards , then I messed it up out beyond 2" , sometimes much more .

This rifle will also be used for hunting small to medium game at ranges up to 75 yards . I definatly need more time to become familiar with my Rossi and these sights but I fear that Peep sights are not the answer for me . By the way the standard Buckhorns are shockers , can't use them at all .

Could it be that I would do better with a longer sighting radius in terms of how clearly I see the target and would it be worth the expence of a set of receiver mounter peep sights . I do not want to shoot tiny groups , I'll buy a benchrest rifle if that bug bites just looking to see if other folks out there have similar issues with a clear sight picture and how you addressed them

I was at a SCI show the other week and spotted the Trijicon RMR Red dot sight , this thing is tiny about the same size as pictured in the link and strikes me that it would have zero affect on the handling of my Rossi , tradition /asthetics is another thing . Do any of you folks have any experience with Red Dot sights and what have you found the pro's and cons .

http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/prod ... egoryID=13

regards Jacko

[rjohns94]

Jacko,

I am sure more qualified persons will pipe in. I know what I like. Here is what my .357 Rossi sight set up looks like:







I find this sight set up allows me to maintain a consistent sight set up and maximizes my ability with the rifle and cartridge. I know there are a lot better shots out there, but for me, this combo allows me to feel perfectly comfortable on deer out to around 125 yards, further than I ever will use it for.

[Pete44ru]

You have come smack up against the short-comings of a peep sight mounted so far from the eye - amplified by your vision problems.

That is the exact reason I generally counsel for a receiver-mounted peep, ILO a more forward, barrel-mounted one.

Besides the fact that a smaller aperture will shoot smaller groups - it also admits less light than a larger one, exasperating the problem for you.

A smaller aperture, set nearer to the eye, will appear larger, and the best of both worlds may be had - although I dispense with apertures altogether for hunting and simply use the resulting ghost ring, with excellent results.
I only install apertures for zeroing or target practice in good light.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

I had the Grandfather to the Trijicon "red dot".

BTW - They are not really a "red dot sight", even though they have a red dot reticle.
That single-plane, tubeless type is technically a "reflex sight".

The one I had was the Tasco Optima, which evolved into the Dr.Optik and the Trijicon & Burris & Leupold reflex sights.
They seemed excellent, and were zeroed like a scope - but I was extremely uncomfortable with the single, relatively tall, vertical sighting plane extending up at a right angle from the receivers and barrels of the long guns I tried it on.
It seemed right at home on a handgun, though - funny, that.
Pay your $$$$, and take your choice.

.

[jeepnik]

I'm switching all my stuff to either scopes or red dots of one type or another. I keep ghost rings on rifles, shotguns and handguns that can be fitted with them as back up. Age and diabetes has effected my vision. Truthfully, the red dots an holo sights are a boone to those with decreasing visual acuity. But check you local regs. Some places won't allow red dots for hunting yet.

[Blaine]

I have a Burris SpeedDot that I've had on my 629 and the BFR. I love them and they help me shoot better at longer ranges. The one disadvantage I might think of would be having the brightness adjusted for early morning or deep woods darkness and then getting a shot in the bright sun, where you prolly ain't gonna see the red dot unless you remember to turn up the brightness But honestly, a ghost ring and a HiViz or Firesight front is just as good and just as fast on a rifle.

[AJMD429]

In daylight, I like peep/aperture's best, and if they are on the receiver of a levergun I like that best. Tangs are closer, but they just seem too fragile, and get in the way when carrying. "Scout" mounted apertures up where the barrel-mounted open sights usually are, can be useful as backup sights if you have a compact flip-down one, but ARE hard to use - you MUST use both eyes open, and need plenty of light and a small front bead.

Red-Dot sights are getting more compact, and if you spend the money, you can get a very durable one. I mostly have cheaper red-dot ones by BSA, or older TASCO or Millet ones, but have two Bushnell Holosights, which are usually more durable than the gun they're on, but are bulky and pricey. I've only 'killed' one BSA with recoil, and that was on a light breakopen 12 gauge 'slug' gun that has also 'killed' a Simmons, Redfield, and Leupold. (It now has peeps...)

Red-Dots seem better in low light, if you get one with a really dimmable and small dot.

Personally, unless I wanted to shoot in low-light (in which case I'd probably get a 3-9x50 optical scope), I'd likely get a Williams FP, especially if it is on a Marlin, because the one type mounts directly into the scope holes (if you have a side-tapped receiver, the side mount ones are a little nicer in my opinion, and can be used on Puma or Winny guns later if you want). 'Ghost-ringing' an FP by removing the aperture works really well for me. For no added cost (MidwayUSA) you can usually find ones with front replacement 'Firesight' beads as well. They are easier to see, but a bit more fragile (you can buy the fiberoptic stuff to repair them really cheap though).

[Jacko]

Thanks for the reply's fella's

rjohns , I notice you have a larger lever fitted , did you put a short stroke kit through your rifle as well . My hand barely fits in my standard lever but the long throw has me concerned a larger lever loop would slow down cycling the action .

Thankfullu jeepnik the type of sight we have on our hunting rifles Downunder has not been regulated , everything else regarding firearms has so sssshhhhhh in case we give them any idea's

Pete 44ru , did you have the Reflex/ Red dot sight mounted on the receiver of your rifles or was it mounted out on the barrel . You have pointed out you felt comfortable with the sight on a handgun but not on your rifles , could this be due to the longer eye releif when mounted on a handgun .

regards Jacko

[rjohns94]

that lever is a mid size lever from Wild West Guns. I do not have a short throw kit. The rifle was treated to a NKJ action and slick up job though.

[Doc Hudson]

Peep Sights, Receiver sights, Tang sights, any other type of iron sight have a major advantage over any and all red dot sights. THEY DON'T NEED BATTERIES!!

[JReed]

A reciever mounted peep will fix your issues for the above stated reasons. Pluss they dont need batterys one less thing for Murphy to @#%&up when you are out in the woods with that trophy buck in your sites.

[Buffboy]

Doc, not all dot sights need batteries. I have a couple Weaver Quick Points that don't. There are others(still in production) that do not as well.

This is my opinion. A dot sight is quick and very easy to shoot. I have one of my Weavers (5MOA dot, IIRC) on a Mk 1 Ruger 22 pistol (looks like something from the prop room for a Star Wars movie) and have never had any problem getting a new shooter bouncing cans with great regularity in under an hour with it. This includes a 30(something) woman from a country that doesn't allow firearms. First time she'd ever even held a firearm and 30 minutes later was bouncing cans up to 25 yards with very few misses. She enjoyed it immensely. When we switched to a 22 rifle with the same sight system the range for similar results extended to about 50 yards. They are tremendously easy to shoot with, a great training tool, and confidence builder in new shooters but they have limitations.

The limitations of the unmagnified dot sights is: they aren't precision sights. The dot is too big, or if small, not defined enough. The precision is just not there. They also don't magnify light very well (at least the ones I've had don't) so they don't work as well in low light as a scope. If magnified, you're better off with crosshairs than a dot IMO. Another annoyance (for me) is every time I've hunted with a powered one I wind up with the dot intensity set too high or low for conditions and I find myself fussing with it as opposed to concentrating on what I "should" be doing. This is not to say a 2-3MOA dot sight can't be used as a 125+/- yard deer slayer, it can, but that's about all the range "I'd" trust it for. The only one I still use with any regularity, is the one on the Ruger. I put one of the others on something every once in a while but they always wind up back in a drawer.

Beyond 50 yards "I" can shoot plain old iron sights with much more accuracy than any dot sight I've owned(even pistols). A peep extends that precision much further yet but both required more practice to get there.

Edit: I didn't see your link to the Trijicon. I've never used one of those but I'd see what they have that has a smaller dot. I didn't realize you're considering spending that kind of cash on one. I'd go a little more and get the EOtech (511 or XPS series). I have used an EOtech 511 sight on an M16, with the 5MOA circle(1MOA dot) and they are about as precise as the breed ever gets.

If you want to save a little cash, I've checked out the knock off version holosights (NcStar is one brand), they don't look too bad and they seem pretty robust but I have no first hand experience with them(haven't bought one yet but I probably will eventually).

[Jacko]

Thanks for the information and opinions fella's .

The new model of the Trijicon sight does not need batteries and sells for a little over $500 Aus , dear as poison but there is a little bit of techno nut in me that says " these things are way cool "

I was thinking this arvo that one thing I really like about a Red Dot sight is they are designed around shooting with both eyes open . Is this a possible solution for not having the target in focus when I shoot with one eye closed through a small aperture peep or buckhorn sights ? What do you folks reckon ,I've read many folks have great success shooting peep sights with both eyes open ? My Rossi need's tapping for a receiver sight so I will also scrounge about and see if I can find someone at the range with a receiver sight on there Lever action and see how it goes for me .

regards Jacko

[the telegraphist]

Thanks for the information and opinions fella's .

The new model of the Trijicon sight does not need batteries and sells for a little over $500 Aus , dear as poison but there is a little bit of techno nut in me that says " these things are way cool "

I was thinking this arvo that one thing I really like about a Red Dot sight is they are designed around shooting with both eyes open . Is this a possible solution for not having the target in focus when I shoot with one eye closed through a small aperture peep or buckhorn sights ? What do you folks reckon ,I've read many folks have great success shooting peep sights with both eyes open ? My Rossi need's tapping for a receiver sight so I will also scrounge about and see if I can find someone at the range with a receiver sight on there Lever action and see how it goes for me .

regards Jacko

Gday Jacko
Mate the receiver sight by Williams or Lyman are beaut, however you need a mind set to use them, your eye will naturally centre the foresight in the appature and hence onto the target. Dont let your brain tell you any different, that first sight on the target is the one. You start wobbling it around and thinking its not right you are lost. I got old eyes wear glasses etc, but have no trouble with receiver sights, learn to use em and heaps of practice. Rome was not built in a day nor was a marksman. Skill comes from experience and practice, lots of it, enjoy.
Rgds

[Pete44ru]

I was uncomfortable with the reflex-type sight on rifles simply because of the way it stood proud - sticking straight up, all alone.

Eye relief is a non-issue, with both reflex and red dot sights, as they have unlimited eye relief.

BTW - It not practical for your M92, but here's the sight picture through my NO BATTERY Trijicon Safari scope w/illuminated reticle:



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