interesting...33 WCF vs Russian 7.62x53R case

[coyote nose]

Just picked up an 1886 in 33 WCF...more on that in a later post. Anyway, was going thru my misc ammo collection trying to see if I had any 33 WCF cases. Did see 2 rounds that sure looked like it, but it turns out they are Russian 7.62 X 53R rounds. (According to Barnes it is sometimes called the 7.62 X 54 R). They look so similiar:

The center loaded round is a factory 33 WCF round, the 2 empty cases are the Russian round.
There are differences of course, the 2 major ones being the bullet diameter (Russian is .309, 33 is .338) and the rim (russian is .565, 33 is .598, at least on my examples). Everything else is close enough to size/ or fireform. If it wasnt for that rim difference I wonder if it would be a source of easier to make brass than reforming from 45-70??? My examples are berdan primed, but Barnes states Norma makes boxer primed brass for the Russian round.
BTW, the Russian round came out in 1891, the WCF round in 1902....hmmm

[C. Cash]

Coyote,

I am a one eyed man so take this for what it's worth. It looks like the 33 WCF has a much more drastic taper in the cartidge body than the Russian round? I might be wrong but it looks like there is a major difference there.

[Ben_Rumson]

How close is the rim thickness and base diameter? The Russian case rim diameter would probably be OK being only 16.5 thou smaller on a side than the 33

[coyote nose]

C Cash, yes the taper is different..but nothing a sizing die could not take out (heck...45-70 is straight and it gets reformed into 33 WCF). Diameter at shoulder of 33 WCF is about .440", the russian round is .460" or about 0.010"/side. Ben, I get .058 on my Russian cases, .065" on my 33 WCF case. But if fireforming would I be able to adjust the sizing die to control the shoulder??? IE: make it headspace on the shoulder instead of the rim?? In any case, I plan on using 45-70 cases reformed to 33 WCF...I just found it interesting how close the Russian round was to our 33 WCF round.

[kaschi]

And the 7.62's rim is beveled which looks like the 35 Win, 405 and 30-40 Krag. The 33's is flat, correct?

[coyote nose]

Yes. I wonder if the norma rounds have the bevel?? My measurement took the bevel into account.

[morgan in nm]

Interesting indeed. Instead of only looking at Norma; Winchester, S&B, and a few others made boxer primed ammo. I don't have any win stuff but I was looking at some Lapua and S&B and their both beveled. If winchester brass is not bevelled, I would be tempted to try it.

[Thunder50]

Only problem I can see, is that the base dia. of the russian case is .489" (Hordady 4th) and the 45-70 case is .505". The .016" difference in base dia may be too much, unless you load light loads in them.