“Do You Have Enough”? by Jeff Quinn

[cshold]

A very thought provoking article.
http://www.gunblast.com/Enough.htm

[O.S.O.K.]

Yes, I probably have enough now... but won't stop stocking up I just ordered another AR upper kit too - not that I need it, but I figure I'll be very happy I did in the coming year.

Here's the article - my eye's started bugging out on me after the first paragrah - white on black is hard to look at for very long!

Thanks for posting the link!

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Do You Have Enough?



by Jeff Quinn

December 27th, 2008



Ever since our Presidential election on November 4, 2008, shooters, hunters, and most all gun owners have been stocking up on ammo, and buying those guns which they have been wanting to buy for some time, but never had made it a priority, until now. Also, many who have never owned a gun have been buying one or more, as they now realize that Barack Obama just might be able to do that which he has for many years promised; to either ban certain firearms or greatly curtail their use. Even folks that voted for Obama are now buying guns and ammunition, in fear that he just might achieve his stated goals of banning certain popular firearms, such as all semi-automatic weapons. I don’t know why anyone would cast their vote for a man who has pledged to stomp all over our Constitution, but many gun owners did so. However, this piece is not about Obama. That deed has been done, and we have a new President coming into office shortly that the majority of Americans apparently want. Regardless of your or my opinions about the man, he will be President, unless something intervenes. The point is, Barack Obama is the best gun salesman since Oliver Winchester. November background checks for firearms purchases have greatly exceeded anything previously on record. Firearms wholesalers tell me that sales figures are through the roof, and that they cannot keep popular semi-automatics in stock. One of our largest makers of AR-15 rifles now has a two-year backlog of orders. Obama has been great for firearms and ammunition sales, and he has not yet been sworn in, neither with his hand on the Bible nor the Koran. How about you; do you have enough guns? Most of us probably do. I have just enough to get by.

Besides the run on AR-15s, folks are stockpiling ammunition like never before. That is a good thing. I have known gun owners who, for many years, have owned many weapons but had very little ammunition on hand. It never made sense to me for someone to buy an AR-15, several thirty-round magazines, and a box of twenty cartridges. If you have a gun, you should have a supply of ammunition to feed it. Ammo sales are up, way up. Even before the election, ammo sales in the US were steadily climbing for several months. After the election, sales sky-rocketed. At the huge gun show in Tulsa right after the election, ammo was selling like beer in Sturgis. On the internet, many companies who deal in high volume ammo sales are sold out, and not even taking backorders. Shooters are scared, and rightly so, as several states already have bills before their legislatures to ban certain types of ammunition, and to greatly tax ammo sales to the point that folks cannot afford to shoot. Do you have enough ammunition? Most of us probably do not.

What about other things? While Gunblast.com is about firearms and ammunition, there are a few things that are more essential to human life. I dealt with the firearms needs that most of us might have in a disaster in my piece on Homeland Security a couple of years ago. What about water? Last week, as I was watching the news one morning, the nation was focused upon a water main break in a large suburb of DC, concerned over the welfare of a few people trapped in their cars. As I watched the rescues, I was thinking that all of that water was headed somewhere when the pipe broke, and that many families were going to be without water for awhile. That started me thinking about the aftermath of hurricane Katrina a few years ago, and the pictures on TV of people fighting to get bottled water. There was water all around them, but none fit to drink. People knew that the hurricane was coming, were told to leave, yet they stayed, without food or water. What would you do if suddenly your water supply was cut off? Do you have enough? For how long? Water is essential to human life. Some of us living in the country have wells for our water, yet no means of getting the water from the ground without the help of an electric pump. If that is your situation, do you have a generator, and enough fuel to run it? For how long? If the electricity is off, the local gas station can’t pump fuel. If you have a well, a good reliable mechanical pump that needs no power or a good well bucket is useful to have on hand. Two weeks ago, I was in New Hampshire when that ice storm hit. I was staying at a nice motel, but we had no electricity, and no water. I had flown up there on an airplane, and was pretty much helpless to get water, just like everyone else around there, and just like most every city-dweller in the nation, I was dependent upon government and public utility services to keep me alive. I was draining water from the ice bucket to brush my teeth. It wasn’t a good feeling to be without water. However, that incident got me to thinking. People who live in cities are even more dependent upon others to keep them alive than are the rest of us. When services are shut down, we expect them to be back up and running soon. What if they are not? Would you bet your life on it? If you live in a city, and do not have supplies, you certainly are betting your life, as well as the lives of those whom depend upon you for their daily needs.

Getting back to the disaster in New Orleans, the hurricane was not the entire problem. People who live there depend upon the government to build and maintain the levees, and the levees failed. They depend upon the government to maintain the pumps to pump out the floodwaters, and the pumps failed. They depend upon the police for protection from looters and other criminals, and the police failed. Many police officers abandoned their jobs, and some police officers were even caught looting private property. The police disarmed and stole the guns from private citizens! The police not only abandoned the citizens of New Orleans and some outlying parishes, but went so far as to take away their only means of self-protection! You might say that you would never give up your guns, but you would. When police are pointing rifles at your face and demanding that you comply, you will do so, or be shot. They even have a little badge on their chest that gives them a license to do so. Here we are years later, and the courts have now ruled that the police were wrong, but that does you no good when you have to protect yourself, and the ones whom are paid and sworn to protect you turn against you. I have a really good friend who is an officer in one of the police agencies that participated in disarming the citizens of the gulf coast. I asked him recently about this. I was glad when he assured me that he refused to participate in stealing weapons from the citizens. However, there were many cops who did participate, and I am disgusted by their actions. They should not be police officers. It was a similar situation with the LA riots several years ago. The police abandoned the citizens, leaving them to fend for themselves. The only people not burned and looted were the store owners who had weapons, and stayed to protect their property. At least in LA, the police left the playing field, and didn’t side with the rioters. The meaning of all of this is that in a disaster, not only are the police not going to protect you, they just might be your biggest enemy. If the power is off and the water is off and rioters are outside, do you have enough? Nothing at all wrong with stocking up on ammo, but if you are thirsty enough, you will trade a case of 5.56mm for a gallon of water.

How about food? Having enough is not only a problem for city folks, but for those in the suburbs and the countryside as well. Even many rural people depend upon a community water supply, and most of us do not have much food stocked up either. How much do you need? Nobody knows. I often hear country folks state that they can always shoot a deer or catch some fish, and that is certainly a plus, but even if you can venture outside to hunt or fish, there is no guarantee of a successful hunt, or that the fish will be biting. I think that it is not excessive at all for a family to have at least two weeks food stocked up for each member of the family. It doesn’t have to be some specialty freeze-dried survival pouch of food which must be re-hydrated with your limited water supply. Also, having a hundred pounds of rice ain’t enough. Rice must be cooked, and also needs water. I like to stock up on canned Spam and other canned meats. The stuff keeps forever in a suitable place, and needs no preparation. Vacuum sealed candy bars are good to have also. They pack a lot of calories into a small space, and keep very well. Canned peaches packed in heavy syrup have the food and drink in one convenient can, taste great, and need no preparation. There are lots of things that keep well, require no refrigeration, and are good to eat. You get the idea. Having enough to ride out a natural or man-made disaster is always a good idea, but how much is enough? I don’t have the answer. I do not know what is coming.

There are other things that should also be on hand., like a good first-aid kit, and enough of your prescription medicines to get you through whatever time you will be on your own. Where you live has a lot to do with what you need. If you live in a large city, your main concern might be how to safely get out of there, and how to carry what you need with you. If you live in the country with a good supply of water and meat on the hoof, you will need to be concerned with protecting that stuff, as those who have not prepared will be coming your way. Cash might be very handy. ATM machines might not be working. On the other hand, cash might be as worthless as any other paper. Who knows? Some things are only a concern on a nation-wide disaster level. Most disasters are local or regional, and eventually, the food and water trucks will show up, and you need only be worried about what to do until they get there, in a few days. However, when help does arrive, if it does, those who show up might not necessarily be your friends. The point is, we don’t know what lies ahead. It could be a natural disaster, or even economic collapse. We have been pretty close to that lately, on a world-wide scale. It could be a terrorist attack on your city water supply. It could be war. In the US, most public services run like a fine machine, and groceries flow into the back doors of the stores at the same rate that they flow out the front. However, it is naïve to be unprepared, and in some cases, foolish. How much is enough? You can stockpile enough water, food, and other supplies for yourself and your family, but what about your neighbors? If they do not prepare, are you prepared to stop them from trying to share yours? That is a hard thing for most of us to even consider. What about those little kids living down the hall in the apartment building or down the road from you? You have enough water for yourself, but would you let a baby die of thirst? I certainly hope that I would never turn anyone way, but then again, how much stuff can a person store? Even thinking about such things is difficult and unpleasant for most of us, and thus we do nothing. We don’t prepare. We have no stores of food, water, or other necessities. We are not prepared for even a two-day outage when a water main breaks. We don’t have enough food on hand to last a week, and worst of all, we have no plan. We walk through our daily lives knowing that when we turn the handle, water will flow, and that the grocery store will always have food on the shelves. If we get sick or injured, we think that that the doctors will always be at the hospital, and that the police are only minutes away. As we have seen before, the water can stop, the grocery stores can go up in flames, the hospitals are overwhelmed, and the police run away. This is not a condemnation of our system or our public servants. Even now, in good times, most hospitals are short on room. They are not prepared for a disaster. The police will have other things to worry about, like their own families. Even when all is well and things are running smoothly, most of our police forces are under-staffed and under-funded. In a large-scale emergency, you are on your own. No one is coming to help. You are your own police force, your own doctor, your own grocer, and your own firefighter. You have to supply for the needs of yourself and your family. Do you have enough?

Jeff Quinn

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[JohndeFresno]

I couldn't agree more with Jeff's article. As for the ammunition part, in addition to other calibers, I'm stocking up heavily each month on .22 LR ammo. All things considered, this is the most compact and cheapest ammunition that can be used for dispatching small animals for food. It is not likely that most folks in the cities will have the opportunity to shoot big game for food. Sadly, Fido and Felix, if found roaming, will provide a meal.

And it is a commonly used caliber. And, at a stretch, the humble .22 can be used for defense of your family at tactical distances, if aimed carefully. For the above reasons, I believe that it might also prove to be one of the hard currencies (barter power) in a prolonged disaster situation, where you know that the police won't be available (as evidenced by more than one disaster, and as cited in the article). Don't get me wrong - I'm writing this as a career peace officer who knows the real score and sees the handwriting on the wall.

[Lefty Dude]

An excellent read, thanks for the post.

An other important factor is to have all your valuable papers in order if ya got to get out of Dodge fast. I spent several days this past Summer going thru and sorting out paper work that would be necessary in case of an emergency. I have a travel folder ready to go, with all important papers. We went so far as to set up Banking in an other State, for such an emergency.

[O.S.O.K.]

Dang, now I gotta go to walmart and get some more .22LR....

[gunslinger598]

It was a good read that I passed on to some family.

I've been stocking up on lots of stuff. Even 22 ammo & as of this very moment I don't own a .22. That is probably some sort of sin I know. When I do get one I'll have the ammo.

[mescalero1]

gunslinger,
Good plan

[Grizz]

I totally agree with JohndeFresno about .22 ammo. My thoughts exactly.

I agree with Jeff too, but instead of stocking much water, I'm planning to purify it. I have a stainless pressure cooker. Filled with water, with a steam hose to a condenser, you can purify drinking water.

Just plain boiling will purify it if you do it long enough, and the pressure cooker shines for this also.

Heat source can be coleman stove or wood fire. Using a homemade version of this stove makes sense for solid fuels:

http://www.nimblewillnomad.com/stove.htm

obviously stainless would be better than mild steel

back track the url to see lots of other stove ideas

[Old Time Hunter]

I am down to my last 10k of 7.62 X 39....and enough components to build at least 1k each of .44 Mag, .444, .45-70, .375 Win, .356 Win, .32 Spec, 8 X 57, .405, .30-30, .308, 7.62 X 54R, .303, 6.5 X 55, 7.7 Arisaka, .44-40, .348, and .30-06. I'm sure that there is one or two forgotten also, 'cause I know I've got over 2k of bullets cast for the .45-70 and another 3k of cast w/GC's of unsized 165gr SP's for the 7.62, .303, .308's, and maybe 1k of cast w/GC's for the .30-30 180 gr. Along with a couple of keg's of H4198, H4895, Unique, AA1680, and a keg of R-15. Hopefully that'll do it for pack'n.

Got a 286' deep well (yep primary is electric pump) with a mechanical secondary pump. A WindTek wind generator with a UPS'd back up 1kW diesel remote generator w/250 gal tank. Always maintain a 100 gallon drinking water back up (five gallon containers) that we constantly rotate because it is our primary drinking water (well is safe, but we don't care fro the hi iron content). Somehow we acquired two pallets of Spam, one pallet of Creamets(sp?) macaroni noodles, one pallet of powdered milk, and half a cow in the freezer. My wife also has a whole wall of canned goods in her closet in the basement and there is not any four people alive that can eat all that in a year.

Now here is the real kicker, this is without even thinking of what Jeff wrote about...this is just go'n about our normal business. Guess I'll have to start thinking of what I might need....just in case.

[Warhawk]

For those who think it'll never happen here, please go to the link below for some real world experiences in the aftermath of Argentina's economic crisis in 2001.

http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/cgi-bin/ ... 044387;p=1

[mescalero1]

I'm not quite as much as Old Time Hunter, but I'm up there, and I'm single.
Still have a ways to go, and I do not have any spam, I like the freeze dried meats in # 10 cans, the stuff is really good.

[Old Time Hunter]

mescalero1, there are 40-50lb cases of Spam on each pallet, or 2000lbs per pallet. Need a couple cases? Stuff lasts for generations and the stuff is so resilient that my dogs eat it in small bites. Numee!

[mescalero1]

Think I'm ok with mt freeze dried in # 10's, more variety.

[mescalero1]

Have 3 generators, that 4 cylinder Wisconsin will power a small town!!!!!!!!

[MikeS.]

Some good info here. I'm short on water, need to come up with some way to store a few hundred gallons in bulk long term.

[gunslinger598]

On the water thing,

I have a few of those black food grade 35 gal. plastic barrels that coca cola syrup came in. Keeps the sunlight out.

Then I have a 425 gallon tank that slides in the back of a pick up. The down side is my well is electric & I have no type of back up at this point. Water is at about 75 ft. I have 3 ponds for stock to drink out of. Several springs on the place I could dig out by hand in a short time if needed that have sweet water.

Probably only enough food for 2 months on hand. I'm working on all that.

Ammo, well I have enough for anything other than an outright war.

Hard to completely prepare for every possible kind of disaster, so I have to be just generally ready.

If I can't get fuel, I do have horses, some of which are broke to pull a wagon and a 2 wheel cart.

I'd sure miss having having the chain saw if I couldn't get gas for it though.

The are I am really lacking in is being able to stay warm. I'll be coming up with a wood stove soon I hope.

[Modoc ED]

All of these great ideas and yet, nobody has addressed flushing toilets and sewage disposal.

I have a well and a septic system but for those of you on a municipal, or some other sewer type system, you will need not only enough water/fluid to drink but also to flush your toilets.

It won't hurt to have a porta-potty and a large amount of porta-potty bags on hand along with the chemical packets to take care of your needs for quite awhile.

Another thought: If it comes to bartering to survive (even for a short while) never hand-over/trade ammo to a stranger with a gun unless you have a loaded gun in your hand.

[Otto]

All of these great ideas and yet, nobody has addressed flushing toilets and sewage disposal.

I have a well and a septic system but for those of you on a municipal, or some other sewer type system, you will need not only enough water/fluid to drink but also to flush your toilets.

It won't hurt to have a porta-potty and a large amount of porta-potty bags on hand along with the chemical packets to take care of your needs for quite awhile.

We don't have an outhouse, but we still know where the old one was, and we have shovels and lumber. We have a well but no generator (D'oh!)

[KCSO]

Let's get real here...
It doesn't make any difference how many AR and SKS's and parts you stock up on. When the Government bans these guns it will be just like Austrailia, turn them in or go to jail! There won't be another AWB restricting mag capacity ect it will be just like CA NOW, YOU CAN"T HAVE ONE! If you are caught with one you WILL go to jail. If our current leaders get their way you WILL be legislated out of existance, same as England, Same as the UN model. This is not a fight you will WIN by stocking up. I'll tell you how t is going I got in another levergun the other day with the magazine blocked to 9 rounds. It has already started.

Lets get real when they ban ALL semi auto weapons are you going to A turn in your guns and grouse or B keep them and eventually go to prison?
Do you pay taxes? Why do you , so you don't go to prison? And every vocal tax protester i know has ended up either paying or going to jail.

As to stocking up on other necessities if you don't already have 3 months worth of emergency supplies stored away it might not be a bad idea but if push comes to shove will you be praised for your foresight or will you be condemned as a HOARDER and have your supplies NATIONALIZED.

[Mich Hunter]

I think what Mr. Quinn was getting at was to be prepared for disasters and such. Some people fear the word survivalist , so you won't here that word often. Some associate it with crazy armed "Red Dawn" types. Others like myself like to call it common sense living or maybe self reliance. These days far too many people rely on the government for everything. Look at Katrina. Scores of people were looking for free handouts and expected Uncle Sam to do everything for them. The "woe is me" attitude spread faster than the water. There are loads of people to this day blaming President Bush for not having aid and such down there with in 24 hours. Some have to realize that the Uncle Sam will not always be there. There is also a thing that was prevalent long ago, but has disappeared for some. Its called "Self Reliance" Its when you have to look in the mirror as a man and ask yourself if you can take care of your family if something like that would ever happen to you. It's about having a PLAN Maybe something simple like having a 2nd heat source for the winter when the power goes out. How about an extra 40 gallons of water if the local water gets contaminated or a water main breaks. Or maybe a stocked pantry incase the blizzard blocks your from leaving your home.

Your never going to be prepared for every emergency, but it doesn't hurt to try. And as far as stocking ammo and guns away, that’s up to you. As far as I am concerned, my stash is pretty well stocked and there is always room to grow. The government can try and ban anything they want. I highly doubt in this wonderful country that they will ever go door to door asking to turn what you have in. Besides, I lost all my guns in a tragic boating accident on the deepest part of Lake Superior

[Noah Zark]

. . . It never made sense to me for someone to buy an AR-15, several thirty-round magazines, and a box of twenty cartridges . . .

Oh, gosh, that's painfully true in my observations.

Sorta like the guys that spend $600-$800 on a super-nice hunting rifle and put a $80 BSA scope on it. Seen way too much of that, too.

Noah

[Win94]

Great discussion fellas.

[O.S.O.K.]

Let's get real here...
It doesn't make any difference how many AR and SKS's and parts you stock up on. When the Government bans these guns it will be just like Austrailia, turn them in or go to jail! There won't be another AWB restricting mag capacity ect it will be just like CA NOW, YOU CAN"T HAVE ONE! If you are caught with one you WILL go to jail. If our current leaders get their way you WILL be legislated out of existance, same as England, Same as the UN model. This is not a fight you will WIN by stocking up. I'll tell you how t is going I got in another levergun the other day with the magazine blocked to 9 rounds. It has already started.

Lets get real when they ban ALL semi auto weapons are you going to A turn in your guns and grouse or B keep them and eventually go to prison?
Do you pay taxes? Why do you , so you don't go to prison? And every vocal tax protester i know has ended up either paying or going to jail.

As to stocking up on other necessities if you don't already have 3 months worth of emergency supplies stored away it might not be a bad idea but if push comes to shove will you be praised for your foresight or will you be condemned as a HOARDER and have your supplies NATIONALIZED.

If enough citizens get involved, we will put the government in prison...

What kind of American gives in to unconstitutional opression? Historically, people have not put up with opressive local governmentments in this country... not that we don't have a bunch right now.

[O.S.O.K.]

It was a good read that I passed on to some family.

I've been stocking up on lots of stuff. Even 22 ammo & as of this very moment I don't own a .22. That is probably some sort of sin I know. When I do get one I'll have the ammo.

Whatcha waitin for?

[Old Time Hunter]

You know, got to think'n after readig most of these posts and let my memories of my maternal grandparents drift back to my conscienceness. See, until the day they both passed on, they lived in a house with NO electricity and NO other utilities. They never, ever wanted for anything. My Grandpa passed on back in '92 at the ripe old age of 93, still did not have any responsibilities to have to pay for utilities. I can imagine that if a natural disaster such as a once in a century snow storm or blizzard hit, he and Grandma would have just thought of it being a little tougher winter. They raised 13 children on that 40 and I can not remember too much store bought goods, do remember the sleigh rides to town in the middle of winter though (their first car came along in '66, my parents bought it for them, still had that same car when he passed and it had a whopp'n 25k miles on it). Heck, Gramps even made all the shoes for his family and probably half the congregation (he was a Lutheran Minister). He did have a couple of "game getter" guns, both single shots a .25-20 and a 20 gauge. What I am trying to illustrate is maybe it is how we live and what type of dependency we have on each other is what would cause the disaster of the bad times. Now for the politics tak'n away the our means of self defense and efficiency, I can guarantee Gramps would say NO.

[mescalero1]

Old Time Hunter,
I am probably an anomoly here, but I can remember when electricity first came to the reservation in 1963.
I was born in 1952, how in the world did I manage to survive?

[rjohns94]

I went out and picked up more mags for my M1A today. think I am set on guns, ammo, water, power, food - for a few weeks anyway.

[AJMD429]

I can imagine that if a natural disaster such as a once in a century snow storm or blizzard hit, he and Grandma would have just thought of it being a little tougher winter. They raised 13 children on that 40 and I can not remember too much store bought goods, do remember the sleigh rides to town in the middle of winter though (their first car came along in '66, my parents bought it for them, still had that same car when he passed and it had a whopp'n 25k miles on it).

Yep - we threaten to bomb enemy nations 'back to the stone age' - if you're LIVING in the stone age already, terrorism has much less threat to you. And I don't mean that badly - perhaps "the late 1800's" is a more accurate term.

We are too interdependent in the BAD ways, yet too socially and spiritually isolated, so we're NOT interdependent in the GOOD ways...

[brucew44guns]

A person cannot very easily stock up for years and years. If the disaster lasts that long, some bad boys may well come by and put you out of business. But the wise man will do a combination of many of these things Jeff talks about. Doing it sufficiently to get a family by for a few weeks or months, at least. One nuclear blast in a large US city will stop the country everywhere for quite a spell I believe. Grocery stores and gas stations may well be empty for a long time before any trucking would move again. It's always "heads up" time in all this regard

[mescalero1]

One blast, would for a short time; stop the country, but commerce would just move around the affected area.
It would send the uninitiated running for the hills, and that would have a detrimental affect.

[Warhawk]

Let's get real here...
It doesn't make any difference how many AR and SKS's and parts you stock up on. When the Government bans these guns it will be just like Austrailia, turn them in or go to jail! There won't be another AWB restricting mag capacity ect it will be just like CA NOW, YOU CAN"T HAVE ONE! If you are caught with one you WILL go to jail. If our current leaders get their way you WILL be legislated out of existance, same as England, Same as the UN model. This is not a fight you will WIN by stocking up. I'll tell you how t is going I got in another levergun the other day with the magazine blocked to 9 rounds. It has already started.

Lets get real when they ban ALL semi auto weapons are you going to A turn in your guns and grouse or B keep them and eventually go to prison?
Do you pay taxes? Why do you , so you don't go to prison? And every vocal tax protester i know has ended up either paying or going to jail.

As to stocking up on other necessities if you don't already have 3 months worth of emergency supplies stored away it might not be a bad idea but if push comes to shove will you be praised for your foresight or will you be condemned as a HOARDER and have your supplies NATIONALIZED.

Apparently some of us take our Freedom more seriously than others.

[planeflyer21]

[quote="O.S.O.KIf enough citizens get involved, we will put the government in prison...

What kind of American gives in to unconstitutional opression? Historically, people have not put up with opressive local governmentments in this country... not that we don't have a bunch right now.[/quote]

When Heller was set to head for the SCOTUS, I found it quite disconcerting the number of Americans who made statements along the lines of "I hope they find the Second Amendment constitutional...I don't want to give up my guns!"

It amazes me that there are so many people who wait for the government to tell them what rights they have.

Jon