Help Dating odd SN Win 94--1943 to 1948??

[Cosmoline]

O wise ones of Paco's board! I have recently snagged a Winchester 94 in .30 WCF with a serial number that does not compute. The first digit could either be a "1" or an "L", but I can find no reference to Win 94's made with an "L" prefix. IT could be a "1" with a smeared base. If so the SN is: 13412XX, which comes out as "Between 1943 and 1948." on the on-line databases.

My own limited knowledge tells me this is absolutely pre-USRAC and probably pre-64. Repeating Arms Co. appears nowhere on it and it has neither safety nor angle eject. The blue has very nice natural wear on it, and the steel appears to be ordinary without the "glossy" receiver I've seein in Win 94's from the 70's. The marking on the side of the barrel are the usual "Winchester proof steel" "MODEL 94-30 W.C.F." There is a cartouche with a "W" in a circle on the top of the receiver and right above it on the barrel shank. Blue is about 95% and function is fine if a little on the stiff side. No rust issues as far as I can tell, but that's just an external inspection. Came from an estate of a guy's uncle.

I am VERY reluctant to conclude I have actually stumbled upon a Winchester from the end of WWII for the price I paid. I never get that lucky.

[RSY]

I was under the impression that they didn't build any M94s during the war. Thought they were too busy building Garands and Carbines.

Scott

[JerryB]

If the barrel is stamped .30wcf then it is pre- 1950. I think they went to .30-.30 Win. in the very late 1940's. I don't have a book close right now to check, is the forearm long wood or short? Later ones went to the short wood.

[pharmseller]

Cosmoline,
Welcome to the fire!
If you are feeling bad about getting a deal, you know, guilty or anything, you have two options to make yourself feel better:
1. Send me $400 to make up for what you should have paid OR
2. Send me the Winchester and I'll give you what you paid for it.

I know, it's very generous of me to accept your guilt, but hey, I'm a giver.

Quinn

[Cosmoline]

It doesn't have a full length stock if that's what you mean. But I think you must mean something else. It has a longer length beyond the retaining strap than I've seen before. It looks really close to this one:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =106761146

But I didn't pay $750 for it One possible problem is I bought it for a shooter since my last Win 94 went to Herself (nuff said). I hope I didn't get one too rare to shoot.

Anyone know why there's that odd gap in the serial numbers after WWII? The best the websites can do is give me that date range, same as the one on gunbroker.

[JerryB]

Yes that is the type of forestock that I meant that and the .30wcf date it in the 1940's. By the way welcome to the forum, a great bunch of good folks here.

[morgan in nm]

There is a barrel date on the underside of the barrel once you've taken the handguard that should be of some help.

[mod71alaska]

http://armscollectors.com/sn/windates.htm
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... f=1&t=8979

Hope this helps. Sounds like your bought yourself a fine 94 carbine! Enjoy shooting and hunting with it, take care of it, and pass it on to your son or grandson someday.

Welcome to the Forum!

[Cosmoline]

Thanks! It looks like my luck may have finally turned around. I'm not a newbie actually, but for some reason my old account went defunct.

I don't know much about Winchester during the immediate post-war years. Is there any reason to make this one a safe queen? My intention is to knock around some with it, but without any mods.

[Hagler]

Cosmoline,

I have read of worn-out serial numbering dies leaving an "L" impression. The "1" became an "L". ...or, maybe not! Look here:

http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=230934

Shawn

[junkbug]

Is the front barrel band somewhat flat, and not rounded as usual?

This would be a "Flat Band M-94", which were made 1943-48, or so. The records for those years were destroyed in a fire, so there is no real way to know exactly when the reciever was built. As others have stated, there should be a two digit number on the bottom of the barrel, on the chamber area. This is the barrel manufacture date, and is the closest thing to a date for this rifle you will be able to find. The forend will have to be removed to read it.

These rifles were made during WWII, in limited numbers, and were rationed out by the Department of Defence to those they deemed to have a "need" for them, such as foresters, plant guards, police, and so on.

I have one, barrel dated 1947, and drilled and tapped for a side mount many years ago. To some that is an attrocity, but it was done when these rifles had absolutely no collector value, and people thought they would keep making them, just as they were, for ever. I kind of like it the way it is.

Hope you enjoy yours.

Sean

PS Here is a link to my post describing it, with a picture of the "flat band" also. Hope this helps.

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... f=1&t=7892

[Hobie]

Thanks for posting that good info Sean and Morgan.

My flat-band is marked 46 on the barrel (bottom next to the receiver) but Madis dated it to 1943. As noted in another post, the polishing room records show that there are alterations to be made to the Madis mfg dates.

Whatever, don't make it a safe queen! That would be like putting Michael Phelps in an office cubicle!

[20cows]

One of my ebay acquisitions (before they dissallowed barrel trades) was a barrel, mag tube and long wood forearm, all still held together with a flat barrel band. The barrel has 49 stamped on the underside.

[morgan in nm]

I have a carbine with serial number 1,331,xxx that according to the barrel date was made in 43. This goes along with known dates of manufacture. I bought it cheap because somebody blued it and did a poor job because it looks like a phosphate finish but really I dont care. I like it. If it were new, I would still shoot it as often as I could afford bullets. Thats the beauty of an older gun like most leverguns is that it is a travesty to shoot some of the rarest variations repeatedly but even more of a travesty not to shoot a good winchester or marlin. Those fine weapons were designed for being tools of their era. IMO, its like a mechanic not using a ratchet because it was made by Snap-on in the 70's.

By the way, great find but you forgot something, PICTURES

[Cosmoline]

Thanks for the info! Destroyed in a fire? Wow this is an interesting rifle. I will do a careful disassembly tonight to check the date on the barrel.

I'll be posting pics as well. Looks like I finally got a "keeper." I'm glad I let the 1981 Win 94 go to Herself in the breakup now Last word is she used it to shoot a brown bear.

[O.S.O.K.]

Dang! I wish I would have seen this when it was posted and been the first reply. I would have said "well, I wouldn't put my arm around her the first time out - I'd wait until the next one and then maybe give her a little peck on the side of the receiver...."

[Cosmoline]

Women come and go, but a pre-64 Winchester is FOREVER

[salvo]

Cosmoline, according to the polishing room records, your carbine was made in 1942

http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=245213

((Winchester's production of the Model 94 averaged about 35,000 units per year for the next (7) years (1936-1942 inclusive), and once again, Madis’ published numbers diverge from the Polishing Room records. The Polishing Room records end with number 1,343,183 listed as the last Model 94 serial number recorded in 1942))

The quote above from the link, is how I was able to date one of my 94's Serial #13386XX as 1942 also. If you go by Madis and most of the DOM generators it dates as a 1943-48

Got any pictures yet?

Here is mine

[Old Ironsights]

I know for a fact that 1950 guns are stamped 30-30.

So anything marked 30-WCF has to be pre '50.

[J Miller]

My flatband, serial numbered 1,4562xx was if my memory serves me correctly marked on the barrel "47".


My 1950 is indeed marked 30-30 Winchester as OI stated, but under the forearm it's marked 30WCF.

Joe

[Cosmoline]

Here's the underside of the barrel. You can also see the "L" shaped "1" The year of barrel manufacture would appear to be "42," though as I understand it the rifle could have been assembled at a later date. Judging from Morgan's SN, mine fits in a slightly later timeframe so maybe it was put together in later 43 or 44 for someone's use in a national forest here or somewhere around the west. That would explain how it wound up in AK.

[J Miller]

Cosmoline,

Looks like the polishing room records are right on yours.

Joe

[Cosmoline]

More pics:

[Old Ironsights]

I'd say you got a sweetie.

I know a guy with one in similar condition and similar SN.

Another "wall hanger" but as it was his daddy's he won't part with it.