WOT: Need some advice Me, going back to school?

[mklwhite]

I know it's WOT, but this is my everyday go-to site. That being said I appreciate and respect the opinions given here on most everything. (I said respect... not always agree with , but I do often enough I thought I'd ask for another set of opinions.)

I'm 38. Got a great family, good job, average home and vehicles. Everything is expensive as it is for everybody. Raising two young boys costs plenty too. My wife has a good job at a big company that pays well for around here and I work for the county, so the pay isn't so good on my end. That is the lay of the land. The situation is this; I'm thinking about going to college... online. I found a place that is accredited and seems to be well respected. Also cheap as far as such things go, but that is not to say a walk in the financial park. I have taken college courses at the local community college with no problem, but work or family emergency or something always seemed to put a stop to that. Really it wasn't too hard for me to put down those books because of the lack luster teachers at the local college. Anyhow with this opportunity I could get started working towards a bachelors, though it would take several years. I guess I'm just having a hard time justifying it.

On one hand it is something I would like to do. It may provide better opportunities in the future and may help me in a position to be able to help my retirement (semi) plans in the distant future. It is a subject that I like a lot and may (if I push on beyond this first hurtle) lead to teaching. On the other hand I may be thinking of pie-in-the-sky. The money is here and now. The kids aren't getting any cheaper and neither is the cost of living. I have a good job now and could retire from it if everything keeps on keeping on in maybe about 17 years. (But that is a long way off and there is many a slip twixt the cup and the lip...)

Anyway, what do you think. I know it is hard to get (or give) enough detail to make an iron clad decision, but that's the gist of it.

[Tycer]

A degree is always a good thing. It shows prospective employers that you can complete something.

Grants. Lots of little ones. I had a buddy in college that paid for his tuition, books, food, beer, off-campus apartment + utilities off $50 and $100 grants. I think he did get a few larger ones, but nothing huge, like $500.
They are generally not income based and if you spend an hour on a $50 grant, that's a pretty good wage.

A job as a legal aid for Second Amendment litigation attorney would be a blast. Don't know how many of those there are, so finding a job might not be too hard, and with todays electronic age, working virtually might be a possibility.

[Rusty]

I don't think it's ever a mistake to make an investment in yourself. If you choose the right management courses it could be that you could stay with the county and better you retirement options as well.

[Grizz]

You seem to see it as a mixed bag, but do you have to quit your day job to get the online college credits?

There are circumstances where the degree may help you advance in some fields.

I'd say go for it, IF, and it's a BIG if, you can keep your family relationships and your job in order. It's a big added work load, like working several unpaid hours of overtime every day, and your kids need you every day too, so there's a balancing act that only you can dedide.

Grizz

[Old Ironsights]

Well...

I got a degree at 30 after "leaving" the Army. Hasn't helped squat in getting real work and I have yet to earn an annual income equivelent to what it cost me to go.

In the mean time I'm paying 8.5%.

Whatever you do, don't quit your day job and make sure that what you DO study helps you get promoted where you are... 'cause it's not likely to be much help otherwise.

Tycer: Legal aid jobs, even in Chicagoland, are hard to find if you aren't in/graduated from Law School or a multi-year experienced Paralegal. Forget working RKBA. There aren't a dozen RKBA lawyers in US. I've been looking for exactly that kind of work (among other things) for the past 8 years.

[SteveR]

I am completing my A.S. in Business Admin, then my B.S. in the same, "online". Some of the the things you would want to look at with your school and what your degree program requires; are there "group projects", "team assignments", and tutoring. I have found some online schools require this, and it is a huge, huge problem being able to schedule time with people online. You also want to ask if tests are proctored, or if you need to go to a campus to take mid-terms and finals. If you are allowed a proctor that makes things easier, you can usually find someone you know and can make arrangements with them for when you need to take the tests.

One of the best reasons I am going to school online is the flexibility of being able to work full time and raise a family, all while still fitting school in to my schedule. I have not had any problems with instructors when problems come up, just as long as you contact them before you need to miss "class" or whatever.

When I went to traditional school being able to ask the instructor questions in person was very helpful, because emailing is difficult when trying to ask questions on subject matter that is confusing.

Also so you may want to see if all your prior college is accepted, the school I am going to now only accepted 50% of the credits from my first A.S., I knew this ahead of time, but it would have been nice to go right in to my B.S.

Steve

[rjohns94]

Going back to school, being a life long learner, is one of those traits of very successful people. The emphasis on life long learning, vice going back to school. Certainly continuing education is an investment in your self. On line schools are demanding and take a person who can stay motivated and dedicated to the learning. I personnally am doing an on line degree, getting my Phd in Ministry leadership. I wish you well. Blessings.

[Pete44ru]

JMO, but I would covet any municipal job - regardless of the current pay - because of the perks, now & down the line.

As much as "me" feels good, because you have a family now, it should be "about" the entire family, and not about you in particular.

To improve your family's "station in life", I would put the time, money & effort into your children - Now.

Someone has to make a sacrifice, to start a family's legacy rolling.

In that light, it will pay dividends to get your children an education, early, that will lead to a well-rewarded profession - like a Doctor, Engineer, or some other profession where working with their brains can reward your & their families more than working with their backs in some more labor-intensive field.

Call it - The Family Plan.

[Lobo]

mklwhite,

My brothers and I are examples of both ends of the spectrum. Two of my younger brothers are PhD's making ~$75000 a year with the likelihood of making twice that before retiring. Their college work led to good paychecks. I graduated from college three times, but my Masters in Business was two years and $20000+ wasted. I'll never earn a dollar from my MBA, and will be teaching high school math until I retire, or have heart failure...which ever comes first. Brother number four didn't graduate from college.....majored in party! He's sometimes between a rock and a hard place financially, and can't get a foot in the door because he doesn't have a degree....sometimes just any degree. This is a good man who works hard, but has no avenues to the future.

It's already been said....pursue a degree field that has future employment options for you, and certainly something you have an interest in!!

Best of luck, and God's Blessings!!

[BenT]

Would a BS help you get a better job with the County . I know some require it for certain management positions. County jobs may not pay the best but benefits like health insurance usually make up for it. But the problem is after many years at night school , a different job's starting pay and benefits would less than what you would be earning by that time.But if ti helps you advance in your current job it makes more sense. I'm all for continuing your education , but you have to do the math also. If your current job is flexible to help raise your kids , that is a huge plus. Also somewhere along the line you need to save for the kids education. Good Luck !

[AndyM]

Will it help you in your current life situation? Maybe or Maybe not... but one thing I beleive in is eductation and the education system's we have in our country - sure they might not all be perfect, but where else in the world can you go and get a quality education, that for the most part, is available to everyone with the will to complete it.

Nobody can take your education and/or educational experiences away from you. Getting a BS is not the end all, be all - an associate's degree, or diploma program can be just as rewarding.

Me, I have a BS in Agricultural Science from Penn State my wife has a BS in Education from Millersville Univ. (in Pennsylvania) and a masters in Education from Penn State. She is more committed than me, she is taking 6 more credits this summer.

What ever you decide - good luck and study hard and hopefully you will enjoy it.

[mklwhite]

I sure appreciate the help. The heck of a thing is that the field that I am interested in is not the "go getter" type of field. But if I pursue it (additional school time) it could lead to college (2-4 year) teaching opportunities. Otherwise, it isn't practical other than to say "I have a degree".

The reason I am thinking this is in part that I have always done for my family first, but here is a chance to do something for them (my wife mostly) that when I retire I can semi retire and teach some to keep the income rolling in. Because with my county job the only good benefit is the retirement so I'd like to take that when I can and do something I would enjoy more. That is my thinking anyway. Still thinking hard on it though. Paperwork is all filled out... but I'm still thinking.

[bogus bill]

I am a poor example to chime in here! I dont have much education, was slow through high school. I somehow found my "nitch" as a guard for lockheed, 35 boreing years with ot about 65 hours a week average.
My wife didnt work. I lived at work but made good money. A big share of the world would love to be in the circumstances of your job and your wife makeing even more, BELIVE ME! With both of you working you each must have 401 Ks and retirement available. If you put all you can in them and study what investments to put them into, its hard for me to belive that with 2 people working you cant retire earlier than 17 years from now!
It was just me working, got wiped once by divorice, had to pay a large child support and I retired at 58 1/2 january of 2000. My new wife doesnt work either, and she had nothing when we married.
Everyones circumstances is different as is their personalitys and wants. Also the "rules" keep changing the older you get.
Good luck.

[longarm4146]

I'm gonna throw another option at you. My example is my wife had 2 yrs college as a Veteranarian Technician. It paid no money so she went to work selling real estate and later with the county in the tax dept, entry level. Over the next 20 yrs she worked hard, attended all training possible, moved upward but never went back to college. 2 yrs ago she was asked to apply for the job of County Tax Administrator when her current boss retired. This is a job normally reserved for someone with advanced degrees, but she had proven herself so worthy that she was later appointed by the county board to that job, and is making twice(almost) what I did when i retired as a captain with a 54 man poice dept after 30 yrs. When she retires she can go out into the private sector and work whenever she wants because of her reputation as a hard worker, reliability, good judgment, and initiative. You seem to be very motivated and if you look closely in your present position there may be additional options that will take you beyond retirement. Follow your dream if possible, but make sure you've looked at all the possibilities in your back yard.
Good luck!

[Charles]

I am a strong believer in education at all levels and all ages. Education most often does place a person in a stronger position to make a living. However, making money is not the be all and end all of getting an education. Education opens up new ways of thinking and new ways of living life. The Brits believe the purpose of a "proper education" is to able to tell the difference between truth and rot.

I instilled the importance of education in my children. My daughter has her B.S., M.S., and P.hd. desgees. My son has his B.S and M.S. degrees and both are well well employed and will be all of their lives. Not only do they have skills, but they also know how to think and live.

Now some folks say at age 38, my goodness, it will take me 6 years to get a degree and I will be 43 years old. So, what in six years, you will be 43 anyway, and it is better to be 43 with a degree than 43 without a degree.

Go for it and never look back!

[meanc]

I'm 37 and a college degree is definitely a personal goal of mine, but for the last 20 years or so I've been lucky enough to have not needed one. 10yrs in the Marine Corps on my resume has carried a good bit of weight with a couple of Aviation defense contractors. But I dang sure wish I'd done it before I was 25. I'd probably be retired by now.

When I was 18 I stopped going after 3 semesters, 35 credits, and a 4.0gpa. then signed up for the Corps.

College was fun at first, then it just became terribly monotonous. I've always been a quick learner with good grades, but the conventional classroom was boring as could be.

I started again last year at 36yo. Half in the classroom/half on the internet. Got 15 more credits so far. But with a 14yr old daughter and 2yr old son, things like maintaining a study and class schedule seem to be matters of convenience.

So, I definitely understand where you're coming from. I say, just do it. You could probably always make a lateral move within the county system and I've never once heard of a college education hindering anyone looking to advance or find a new job.

I guess you just have to be diligent in figuring out what you'd like to persue and which classes would be more beneficial.

Also, you never know what might pique your interest in other lines of work. Relationships with other students/college groups/frats/administrators can help get your foot in the door in some other profession as well.

[O.S.O.K.]

Well, I myself have a business degree. My wife has an education degree. We've both benefited from having these degrees. It's not an automatic for a better job and you still have to work your tail off to get ahead.

My daughter is in school right now - doing great. My two sons are also planning on college.

So, given my own actions, I'd have to say definately go for it.

Now having said that, I must also recognize that people that are natural entrepreneurs often times do very well and better in fact by just puting the time into a business. If you have a good head on your shoulders and the propensity/tenacity/self confidence to go that route, then you may consider that instead.

I'm talking about people that for example start a small restaurant, work hard and are successful and then open another one - a third and then franchise their concept and make a bundle.

Pick whatever you are most interested in/adept at. Could be a landscaping service, motorcycle repair, electronics installation service, etc.

[pharmseller]

I am a strong believer in education at all levels and all ages. Education most often does place a person in a stronger position to make a living. However, making money is not the be all and end all of getting an education. Education opens up new ways of thinking and new ways of living life. The Brits believe the purpose of a "proper education" is to able to tell the difference between truth and rot.

I instilled the importance of education in my children. My daughter has her B.S., M.S., and P.hd. desgees. My son has his B.S and M.S. degrees and both are well well employed and will be all of their lives. Not only do they have skills, but they also know how to think and live.

Now some folks say at age 38, my goodness, it will take me 6 years to get a degree and I will be 43 years old. So, what in six years, you will be 43 anyway, and it is better to be 43 with a degree than 43 without a degree.

Go for it and never look back!

My wife finished her degree at "night school" so she could keep her day job. The program was geared towards working adults who wanted to complete their degree requirements. As the song goes, she had a job waiting when she graduated, which nearly tripled her income.
This is not to say that people with degrees are smarter than those without. The degree process is an artificial filter used by many, if not most, employers. I went to school with people I wouldn't hire to wash my car. A college degree opens more doors, and these days I believe that options are essential. Lifetime employment is a thing of the past.
I had a similar conversation with my aunt when I was thinking about grad school. It was a two year program, full time. My aunt asked me how old I'd be in two years, regardless of school. Time passes, she said, but it's what we do with the time that matters.
If you can afford it, do it.

Quinn

[stretch]

If you want to, go for it. Being better educated is almost always a
positive thing. It might also help you get better employment in the
future. Study what you're interested in.

My degree is in Early Music (music before 1750) Performance. Believe
it or not, it's helped me to get several jobs. I graduated Summa cum
Laude, and that fact alone has helped me get a foot in the door in at
least one instance.

I currently work as a computer programmer, and I wouldn't have
been considered for my first computer job without a college degree.
One of the people who interviewed me for that first job knew of the
relationship between math, the sciences, and music. My point is
that a degree can open doors for you that were not only closed
beforehand - but that you never even knew existed. Think of the
example you'll set for your kids, too.

Many have and will continue to thrive without a college degree.
Going to college won't improve your native intelligence, and it won't
make you a better person than anybody else. But if you think it would
be fun and useful, and you can afford it - do it!

[Ysabel Kid]

This is not to say that people with degrees are smarter than those without. The degree process is an artificial filter used by many, if not most, employers. I went to school with people I wouldn't hire to wash my car. A college degree opens more doors, and these days I believe that options are essential.

If you can afford it, do it.

Quinn

+1 For most companies, a professional job requires a college degree, but not because you learn anything of use getting the degree. Rather, it shows you could do it, stuck with it, and represent less of a risk for the money a company spends training it's employees than someone who doesn't have a degree. That latter person may make a better employee, and may be a lot smarter, but chances are they will never get the opportunity to even seriously apply for a job. This situation is only going to get more prevalent as the years go by. When my father got his college degree in the late 1950's (he was the first person in our family line to do so), he competed with a small set of fellow graduates in the same area. When I got my degree in the late 1980's I competed with kids from all over the country. Today's graduates are often competing with kids from around the world - and advanced degrees for many jobs are becoming a must. Again, as Quinn notes, more as a filter than anything else. 20 years ago when I hired into the company I work for they estimated they spent about $100K in the first two years on training new hires. I can't imagine what that figure is now - but I can guarantee it is a lot more. Companies are simply looking to get the best return for that investment.

As noted by others, don't kill yourself or burn your family relations, but if you can swing it, the investment in yourself will never hurt.

Good luck!!!

[Old Ironsights]

...As noted by others, don't kill yourself or burn your family relations, but if you can swing it, the investment in yourself will never hurt...

Unless you can't pay the loans off...

[mklwhite]

I think I have made my decision. First off I would like to thank everyone who wrote and gave me something to think about on the subject. Though the final factor came in the mail last night. A two weeks or so ago my youngest took a knock on the noggin and it laid about a 2 inch gash open over his left eye. Everything there is fine. (Thank God) The Doc said that the gash was so cleanly done (with a baseball bat so how that happened???) the the scar will be faint/minimal. Anyhow it looks like the insurance won't cover as much as we'd hoped/thought. It's not bad. The ER people did a good job and my son is doing great. He handled everything real well. The odd thing is the amount that the insurance won't cover is almost exactly the amount that we had saved for my initial payment for the university. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I think that is a pretty good sign. So there's my decision. Not going to do it. Will it stop my education; no. I will continue on my own, but only for my own edification. Thanks again for your replies.

[GonnePhishin]

You are going to get old anyway, whether or not you decide to go get your college degree. Therefore, my advice to you is DO IT.
It's better to give it a try and be unsuccessful, then to NEVER have tired and wish that you had.
Hell, I'm 55 and am going for a masters Degree in Nursing this fall.
So just go and DO IT!!

Blessings for you and your family!!

UncleBuck

[Blackhawk]

I'd go do it. In fact I'm pondering the same things myself. I'm 35, got an AS degree but fill the role of a BS degree w/o the pay. It's constantly brought up to me that I only have a AS degree, one reason I can't stand my job. But in order to shut them up, I'm contemplating going back & getting my BS degree. Being with this company 8 yrs and theirs always an excuse to not give out pay where its due. I've even been offered jobs w/ AT&T and turned it down at the last moment cause I didn't want to be away from my wife and kids. Do you think that will be brought up during my next review? Do you think I'll get a pat on the back for taking one for the team and sticking with them? Probably not. But if I with'em 8 yrs and feel like they've used me enough. So I'm thinking about using them the next 8 yrs and get a BS degree and moving on.

Ok, I'll stop being disgruntled now.

[El Chivo]

I think you should take into account your age, and see if the difference in what you could earn and what you do earn pays for the schooling.

When I did my career change to become an optician I was 30, and ruled out optometry school partly because it would have taken four years more. I didn't want to have zero income for four years, then come out of it $120,000 in debt, just to earn more in the later years.

There's nothing wrong with education for its own sake, but most people are going back to school to earn more money, and sometimes it doesn't make mathematical sense.

Me, if I were young and full of beans, I would work on my own business. It's easy to establish one via the internet, you can do exactly what you like to do, and if you REALLY work at it you can make real money. It will keep you up nights but it becomes your baby.

I am doing it now with a music site but because I'm old and full of something else I don't put much into it anymore. The key to success is to keep hammering. But it paid for itself right away and, incidentally, has paid for my entire gun collection, so I'm happy.

[shdwlkr]

mklwhite
I am returning to college to get my masters degree and I am 60 years old and on my third family. I have kids home that range in age from 18 to 1 1/2 years old. My old tools for work don't work anymore so it is time to go back and get new ones. If you really want something there is always a way to get it.

[505stevec]

I did the ON-Line thing. It was great. I was able to keep my Job as a Detective, spend time with my family and go to school. I went through Bellevue University. They are in Nebraska and have a campus and sports program. Great school. A college degree does not make you any smarter, but it does open doors that are otherwise closed, sometimes even in the job you are in.

[Blackhawk]

A college degree does not make you any smarter, but it does open doors that are otherwise closed, sometimes even in the job you are in.

That's the key to it all. Investigate around with some of the younger folks and find out what their making coming out of college. Then compare it to your pay + experience. You'd be surprised.

[Doc Hudson]

I haven't read all the replies, so I might be repeating what someone else has said.

In my experience, on-line classes are tougher than actual classes.

Unless you have a good instructor, committed to actually teaching rather than just posting assignments and receiving them, you won't get a lot out of the class.

I had to take one on-line class. Assignments and their due dates were posted at the beginning of the semester. Until the last week of school, I did not even get acknowledgments that the assignments had been received. Questions went unanswered, and all I got out of the class was what I got from the book.

Another difficulty with on-line classwork is right here at Lever Guns. It will be difficult to sit at your computer and concentrate on boring class work when you could be talking guns, and hunting with friends. The urge just to peep in for a few minutes will be mighty hard to resist, and I speak from personal experience.

IF, you have instructors who are committed to doing a good job, and IF you have the self-discipline to stick to your work regardless of the siren-call of Lever Guns, or the inevitable "Honey will you...?'s" and "Daddy! She's doing it again!'s" Then maybe you can get an online degree and actually get something out of it.

Otherwise, look into your local community college and the nearest university. There are lots of programs geared toward working people and their schedules. My wife got her PhD through a program of weekend classes. Perhaps you can find a similar program.

If I'm sounding like a spoilsport, I apologize. I just felt that I should point out a few pitfalls before you fell into one. I am not saying that you can't get a degree through on-line classes. I'm just telling you that it is not as easy as the advertisements make it out to be.

Good Luck whatever you decide.

[Doc Hudson]

Sorry to hear about your setback and the kid's busted noggin.

Don't give up though. Perhaps the time is not yet ripe to chase that degree. But the time will come.

In May of 2007, my wife got her PhD. When she finished, we did not owe a penny. We had some beans and rice times but we got her through her PhD without a single load. And this past May, I was awarded an AA degree in Culinary Arts, and didn't owe a penny when it was over.

And IIRC, Marcia and I are both considerably older than you. Heck, I was past 50 when I started the Culinary Arts Program, and Marcia was past 50 when she received her PhD. We did it and so can you. Just don't give up, and keep looking.