POLITICS - Guns and Thought Crime:

[Old Ironsights]

This is the end result of accepting the premise of "Malum Prohibitum" - that somthing can be evil simply because the Government says so (prohibits it).

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From P.A. Luty

HOW THE BRITISH AUTHORITIES PERSECUTE GUN OWNERS...

For the 'terrible crime' of constructing a machine-gun and writing my book 'Expedient Homemade Firearms — The 9mm Machine Gun' i was sentenced to four years imprisonment — plus one year for possession of six cartridges! Although the judge said he accepted there was no criminal intent in my constructing the weapon, he would make an example of me as a warning to others.

In prison my original low security classification was upgraded two levels (to high security) in the space of a few weeks, and throughout my incarceration I was vilified by the authorities, who of course, "new better" than professionally qualified people. They regarded me as a potential psychopath because of my refusal to toe the line and agree with the official views on gun ownership.

Read on to see what was written about a man whom three psychiatrists viewed as "normal"...

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THE PAROLE BOARD'S REPORT; CRIMINAL JUSTICE ACT 1991. PAROLE NOTIFICATION.

"A panel of the parole board considered your application (for parole) on 24th. March 2000 and found you not suitable for early release on licence. The panel gave the following reasons. Mr.Luty was convicted of the manufacture of a firearm and possession of ammunition (6 rounds!)………. there is little evidence to indicate that Mr.Luty has fully addressed the causes and consequences of the offences(1) and although he states he accepts responsibility, still describes the crimes as "an innocent project". Mr.Luty continues to maintain very strong views about UK gun laws to which he is opposed. Report writers identify considerable apprehension over his lack of insight and concern over the wider implications of his offences and his continuing views over gun ownership and use (2)

Given the gravity of the offences and the importance of the outstanding areas of concern, the panel consider the risk of re-offending too high for parole to be granted.

(1.) Gun control!

(2.) The citizen is no longer entitled to a point of view if it goes against majority opinion.


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THE PROBATION OFFICER'S REPORT; (DESCRIBED BY A PRISON OFFICER WITH TWENTY YEARS EXPERIENCE WITHIN THE SERVICE AS "ONE OF THE MOST VINDICTIVE AND BIASED REPORTS I HAVE EVER SEEN"……………..

"The prisoner was convicted in Leeds Crown Court on 24th.April 1998 of the manufacture of a prohibited weapon……………he was sentenced to a total of four years imprisonment. Mr.Luty admitted a long term interest in guns and gun making (3) ...At the time of interview he expressed strong views about the stringent gun laws in this country and on issues related to the individual and the state. To an extent he appears to have embraced the views promulgated by much of the "Right to keep and bear arms" lobby in the United States. I understand police seized a number of publications making reference to these views ....Whilst there is no evidence to suggest Mr.Luty has established any contact with militia or other extreme groups in the United States , his apparent sympathy for their views is of ongoing concern (4) ...............of special concern , I understand Mr.Luty's brother attempted to send him an article from the internet by an organization called "Jews for the preservation of firearms ownership" (JPFO) (5). This appears to be yet another "Right to keep and bear arms" group. Since his imprisonment, Mr.Luty's mother has died and I understand his father remains chronically ill............The prisoner's attitude to the role of the state and the possession and use of firearms gives rise to serious concern. This ,taken together with...the anti-authority stance exhibited during this sentence, adds to the concern that he could represent a very great danger to members of the public in future. The fact that his mother has died since imprisonment and that he appears to have developed an embittered view of his treatment in prison may reinforce his anti-social and anti- authority attitudes, making the likelihood of grave crimes being committed in the future even more likely. (6)

In all the circumstances, in my opinion, the presumption must be that he is potentially dangerous and the case must be managed accordingly. The prisoner has not shown any progress in understanding the concerns highlighted in his case and, if anything, appears even more intransigent in his views than before conviction. Therefore, in my view, he is not a suitable candidate for early release on parole. His future supervision on licence will have to be undertaken with a view to managing risk to the public as an overriding priority.

F.W. Probation Officer West Yorkshire Probation Service.

It appears I'm a nut! By the way, I didn't get parole!

(3.) It is looked upon as an offence to have an interest in firearms.

(4.) Is the right to keep and bear arms an "extreme view"?

(5.) Log on to http://www.jpfo.org/

(6.) How many more warnings do gun owners need about the mentality of the anti-gun lobby? A perfect example of an "expert" covering his back.

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A PRISON GOVERNOR'S "ENLIGHTENED" COMMENTS ABOUT THE AUTHOR:

"The nature of your book and the views expressed in it are precisely what makes you a risk to the public. They (the views) lie at the core of why you were sent to prison in the first place. Those views are still firmly held and they make you a danger to the public."

C.M.A.,Governor

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ON THE OTHER HAND........SOME COULD SEE THROUGH THE LIES AND MISINFORMATION......THE PRISON CHAPLAIN'S REPORT:

I have known Mr.Luty since his arrival in this prison, I have spoken to him on several occasions about his offence and his personal problems, in particular the death of his mother and the illness of his father...However, my main concern is to bring to the parole board's attention Mr.Luty's ongoing bereavement problems. Eight months after his imprisonment his mother died. Although aware that she had been ill his mother's death came as a great shock. He was very close to his mother and was extremely upset by her death. His sense of loss and grief was such that he could not bring himself to attend the funeral. He admits that he has been unable to grieve properly...whilst in prison. As with so many men in the prison culture he cannot let go of his emotions and has bottled them up. His sadness cannot be released. The problem has been compounded by the serious illness of his father, who almost died in the summer of 1999. His father continues to be seriously ill and he is frightened that he will lose his father also whilst in prison. Both these events have put great strain on Mr.Luty during his sentence.

Despite these pressures he has conducted himself with dignity during his sentence and has been a model prisoner. He has complied with every demand made of him and has behaved impeccably. Whilst a naturally quiet person he gets on well with staff with whom he has contact. Mr. Luty is an articulate and intelligent man...his offences have been of an 'indirect nature', i.e. they have not involved other people nor have they been used in criminal activities. I support Mr.Luty's parole application on the following grounds;

1/ He has never shown himself to be a threat to the public.

2/ He has been a well behaved inmate and has complied with all that has been asked of him whilst in prison.

P.M., Prison Chaplain


It is a worrying fact of modern life that those who find themselves in prison and are known to hold an "unhealthy" interest in firearms are subjected to "Psychiatric assessment".


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THE PRISON PSYCHIATRIST No.1 (following a long interview).
"I could find no evidence of delusions, hallucinations. There was no thought disorder and his mood was normal. His memory was good and he was of at least average intelligence, possibly of good intelligence.............In my opinion he does not suffer from any form of mental disorder (nice to know!) ...His mood was appropriate and he certainly could not be described as cold. I concluded there were no grounds for suggesting psychiatric intervention in this case" (phew!)

Dr.T.K., Consultant Forensic Psychiatrist.

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THE PRISON PSYCHIATRIST No. 2 (following a very long interview).


"The purpose of this report is to advise on Mr.Luty's mental state and to clarify the issue as to whether he suffers from a mental disorder or not (Didn't they believe no.1?)


Mr.Luty denied any symptoms of depression. I found no evidence at all of mental Illness. (Hurray!)
It was clear from conversation that he has strong views on a variety of matters. He presents as a clean living individual with high morals......He spoke about the injustices of recent gun laws......He believes people should be allowed to possess firearms.......OPINION:- I found no evidence of mental illness. Although Mr.Luty has strong views on a number of matters these alone do not constitute a personality disorder. (7) Mr.Luty does not suffer from a personality disorder and therefore I have no medical recommendations to make."

Dr.J.I. MRC-Psych., Consultant Forensic Psychiatrist.


7. The anti-gun lobby, prison and probation service would have us believe otherwise!


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THE PRISON PSYCHIATRIST N0.3 (following a very, very long interview).


"In my opinion Mr.Luty is not suffering from a mental disorder requiring specialist treatment. (Surely they will believe no.3?) My enquiry into this case has revealed the motive behind the offence. I have not come across any evidence to indicate that Mr.Luty is a dangerous person as he is at present"

Dr.M.S.A.,MBBS,FRC.Psych., Senior lecturer in psychiatry.


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So entrenched is the mindset of the prison/probation services, and many other government bodies, that anyone who enters the prison system and dares to challenge this mindset can suffer the most appalling persecution. I have had first hand experience. So entrenched is the view that the gun owner is a potential mass murderer or homicidal maniac that he will suffer the indignities of intrusive psychiatric questioning in the expectation that he will "test positive"; i.e. he will be another "gun nut" caught in time. In any other field, psychiatric "assessment" will only be offered or prescribed if a mental illness is observed or demonstrated to be present. However, when we are talking about an individual with an interest in firearms , a psychiatric "assessment" is prescribed in the expectation, and in some quarter, hope, of it being required.

This ludicrous situation has occurred as a direct result of the media, in whose newspapers and on whose screens the gun owner has been relegated to the level of an almost sub-human species. The probation service, whose role at one time was the welfare of an inmate and his family, will now write the most vindictive and biased reports to prevent an early release, irrespective of any humanitarian urgency which may exist, and which for almost any other offence would almost guarantee early release on parole licence. Where the prison service is involved in the assessment of an individual convicted of a non-violent offence, as in my own case, they will indulge in a game of prevarication and manipulation of the truth. The situation is totally unacceptable.

It is the fundamental right of any individual to be treated in a fair and non-prejudicial manner and the right of any minority living in what we are told is a civilised society not to suffer intolerance at the hands of a "might is right" majority view.

The intolerance shown to me and my minority today, may well be shown to you and your minority tomorrow. Let my experiences be a warning. It is time to wake up.

http://thehomegunsmith.com/readthis.shtml

[claybob86]

1984.

[FWiedner]

These mutts didn't get the job done back in 1933, so they're back trying again.

Practice makes perfect, even in socialist democracies.

[gamekeeper]

Well I guess I've been very lucky to escape being locked up by the "Thought Police" for thinking self defense is a right! I'm even guilty of owning "Books" about firearms!!!

We have a very biased media over here and a lot of well known so called celebrities that think by spouting anti gun propaganda they will gain support from the sheeple.
I have often heard so called Sportsmen on TV and Radio talk about the "terrible" fact that some people here get "Fun" out of owning guns and hunting and then go on and on about the great game of Football (soccer) when every game is heavily policed because of the violent behaviour of the sheeple!

[Jaguarundi]

1984.

Yup think'n the same !

[donw]

this case could very well become the 'norm' here, too, if we're not vigilant.

i would not be surprised to see an armed insurrection if things get worse. that's what 'authorities' fear the most...that they will lose power/control.

why do you think they want just LEO and military to have firearms? to FORCE their beliefs/laws on you. why do you think every law that's passed expempts LEO and military? especially in cases of firearms...to FORCE is a part of enFORCE is it not? "we will FORCE you to obey this law..."..."the laws will be enFORCED..."...etc

new police recruits/trainees are often asked "are you willing to enFORCE laws you do not agree with?" (at least i was asked that when i applied for a couple of police departments as a young man fresh out of the military.)

imagine being on equal terms, LEGALLY, with the state trooper who pulls you over for speeding: you're openly carrying your favorite 1911 and have an AR-15 or 870 secured in the front seat...do you think he would be as aggressive/assertive/confident/willing in attempting to enFORCE the law? not likely.

or imagine police forces without firearms. would they be able to enFORCE the laws? probably not. (supposedly, the english 'bobbies' were/are not armed, but from what i've read and heard, they ARE armed. perhaps one of our english friends in this forum could enlighten me as to whether or not they are armed.)

the laws our LEO enFORCE are subject to interpretation as to whether or not they are "good" laws by those whom they are being applied to. that is to say: the more vigorously a law is enFORCED, the more effective it is...right or wrong is not an issue when being enFORCED...the only factor important to the 'authorities' is that they are able to enFORCE the law(s) and they resent it when challenged.

it's not about guns...it's about CONTROL...pure and simple; always has been, always will be.

[gamekeeper]

this case could very well become the 'norm' here, too, if we're not vigilant.


imagine police forces without firearms. would they be able to enFORCE the laws? probably not. (supposedly, the English 'bobbies' were/are not armed, but from what i've read and heard, they ARE armed. perhaps one of our English friends in this forum could enlighten me as to whether or not they are armed.)


it's not about guns...it's about CONTROL...pure and simple; always has been, always will be.

I am not an expert on British Police Forces but I know that the average "Bobbie" is not routinely armed with a firearm. They all receive "some" firearm training and some units are armed full time ready to be called in when some kid is seen by a member of the public (sheeple) shooting rats with an airgun.

I'm more afraid of armed British LEOs than the punks with illegal guns. The police have got away with far too many killings of unarmed innocent people in this country.

[Jeeps]

1984.

Yup think'n the same !

Actually 2008 England, and coming to a legislative body near you

I remember seeing the movie in 1984 when I was a sophomore in high school. I thought the man who made it had serious
emotional problems that he could imagine such a world. What'dya know, he had the "we know better" group plugged
from the git go.

I'll wear my tin foil hat and continue to listen while the "band plays on".

[Old Ironsights]

I remember seeing the movie in 1984 when I was a sophomore in high school. I thought the man who made it had serious emotional problems that he could imagine such a world. What'dya know, he had the "we know better" group plugged from the git go...

And the stolid, tireless horse is retired to the glue factory...

http://www.george-orwell.org/Animal_Farm/8.html

Ah, for the glories of Socialized Medicine.