I would have bet on the.45-70

[Scott Tschirhart]

Interesting testing with different cartridges.

https://youtu.be/wN_MKbZZDbQ?is=7x02VMPXpKYymT5l

[Scott Tschirhart]

There’s something special about a RCBS 270-SAA bullet.

[JimT]

I wasn't surprised by the .45 Colt load. I have shot full-length through deer with the SSK-270 FN at a bit over 950 fps. The .45-70 would have done more if he had a handloaded hardcast bullet.

I liked what he was doing. Foot-pounds of energy has been a pet gripe of mine for years. Here's an old article about some shooting we did back in the 1970's - trying to see how hard various guns and loads hit ..... https://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/hit.htm

[Scott Tschirhart]

I don’t know if you know him but we had a great time at the Holiday. I had not seen him since he was a small boy.

[.45colt]

The 45-70 slug appears to be a softer alloy, the bullet looks to be expanded to more than .50 cal. They should repeat with a hard cast bullet.

[High Desert Hunter]

I could happily shoot that 45-270SAA bullet for everything for the rest of my days. The last ones I shot were loaded over 2400 and clocked 1300fps from the Freedom Arms with the Colt cylinder.

Dave

[JimT]

I don’t know if you know him but we had a great time at the Holiday. I had not seen him since he was a small boy.

I have not met Brian's boys. I watch their videos and like what I see. Brian has raised some great men.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I could happily shoot that 45-270SAA bullet for everything for the rest of my days. The last ones I shot were loaded over 2400 and clocked 1300fps from the Freedom Arms with the Colt cylinder.

Dave

Dave, I definitely feel that way.

[Bill in Oregon]

It never occurred to me to do a penetration test standing in the bed of a pickup. The .45 Colt's performance reaffirms what John Linebaugh said about it.

[marlinman93]

There's a lot more to killing power than simply velocity, and bullet weight or diameter. And I'm not sure wet newspaper really relates to killing power on elk, or even smaller boned animals like deer? I also don't feel a bullet needs to pass through any animal to kill, and once it does anything more than passing through vital organs is wasted energy. That's one reason the .45 Colt does the job well. But the velocity of the 45 Colt is the real hindrance as it's a great performer at close range, but get very far out and it's not so great.
The .45-70 past 100 yds. is always going to be a better performer than the .45 Colt with any bullet. As for the .22-250 cartridge, it rarely penetrates very far, but does the job extremely well at very long distances because of the velocity, and the fact it maintains a very high velocity at long distance. Yes, it wont penetrate like any .45 does, but it doesn't need to as the velocity causes those little 55 grain bullets to literally explode inside game, leaving none of the vital organs intact, and a quick clean kill.
I hunted many years with a .22-250, and also with .45-70 rifles, and both do a great job of taking game easily. But the .22-250's fast, flat trajectory did so better. I've been a big .45 Colt fan for decades, but only taken one mule deer with my S&W Model 25 with 8 3/8" barrel. It was a 60 yd. shot with a 250 grain Keith style cast bullet, and it did the job well. Just not sure how well it would have done if the deer had been 100 yds. out?

[JimT]

I shot this Mule Deer at close to 100 yards with my .45 Colt.

9.jpg

[piller]

Hard cast Keith style bullets seem to punch through more than what appears possible. Never volunteer to catch them out of the air.

[High Desert Hunter]

"Never volunteer to catch them out of the air"
That is some sound advice!

Dave

[Scott Tschirhart]

I’m not really good enough with a sixgun to be shooting game at 100 yards. I’m happy with half that distance.

But I am impressed with those who can!

[JimT]

At 80 I don't have the eyesight or fine motor skills that I had in my 20's, 30's and 40's. The last time I made a fairly long shot on game was a cow elk at 90 yards. I was using my Bowen .41 Magnum and knew what it would do. I was in my 60's at the time. I laid down, leaned back on my left elbow, raised my right knee and laid the pistol alongside it and made the shot easily. I don't believe I would do it anymore.

[AJMD429]

.
I think for stopping something bit, the Taylor Knock Out formula seems more reasonable.

Kinetic Energy is probably better for making red mist, if that's the goal.

[EdinCT]

I watched that and have to agree with their findings. I was so convinced that my Grandfathers 38-40 was too weak to kill deer all the Gun writers told me so. My Dad said hit them in the lungs and give them a few min. to die. Well, when I shot the first deer with it, the small deer went to it's knees, got up and ran over a hill about 25 yards leaving a wide blood trail.The next deer was a 140 lb doe that ran 20 yards and died. I have had them run further when hit with my 45/70 and a 30-06. I can't say why though.

[piller]

I might be wrong, but the animals I have taken which were aware of my presence and started to run were those which went farthest. Adrenalin appears to be a big part of it.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I find that when I put that 270 grain Scoville bullet through an animal, they don’t go far and there’s no problem following the blood trail.

I’m tempted to hunt with only a sixgun this year.

[marlinman93]

I watched that and have to agree with their findings. I was so convinced that my Grandfathers 38-40 was too weak to kill deer all the Gun writers told me so. My Dad said hit them in the lungs and give them a few min. to die. Well, when I shot the first deer with it, the small deer went to it's knees, got up and ran over a hill about 25 yards leaving a wide blood trail.The next deer was a 140 lb doe that ran 20 yards and died. I have had them run further when hit with my 45/70 and a 30-06. I can't say why though.

The first mule deer I shot with my Model 1889 Marlin in .38-40 was a quartering shot with the deer facing me at 80 yds. I waited forever for the deer to turn sideways, but it stood there staring at me. I was afraid it would just suddenly bolt and I'd miss my chance, so I aimed at the chest and fired. The deer suddenly reared up on it's hind legs and fell over backwards; dead. My nephew who'd laughed when I showed him a .38-40 cartridge a day earlier was shocked, and I too was pretty surprised. When we got to the downed deer my shot had exited behind the left front shoulder and left a good sized hole with the 170 gr. cast lead bullet.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I imagine that there were a great number of men and game animals that were killed with that old .44 Henry Flat rimfire round because it was so widely used for so many years first in the Henry and later in the Winchester 66.

We probably overestimate how much it takes to kill some game animals. Shot placement and good penetration will resolve a lot of issues.

[fordwannabe]

Several years ago, I shot a doe with a !889 in 44-40. I shot she went about 15 yards( blood trail Ray Charles could find) and laid down like she was a labrador sleeping with it's back feet up between pelvis and ribcage, front legs out in front. She was dead as a doornail, and when I got to the other side a large portion of her heat was on the outside of her hide. I made a mental note that I did not want to get shot by that 200 grain RCBS bullet.

[Lastmohecken]

There’s something special about a RCBS 270-SAA bullet.

Yes, I want to try a heavier bullet like that. I am going to see what Montana Bullets has along that line. However, the 22-250 did better than I thought it would do. And it's still a little fussy and not the last word, but foot pounds is not the last word for sure. Elmer Keith wrote about another formula way back there, called Pounds feet that I think made a lot more sense.

But it's just like others have said, sometimes that light, very fast, explosive bullet kills like lightening on thin skinned game, when hit right with it, but fool around and take a raking shot, and the story ends up quite differently. But penetration is not always the last word either. I remember shooting a bunch of deer with the 375 HH mag for a couple of years using a 235 grain Speer softpoint running a little over 2,800 fps, might have even been 2900. In this case, results varied a lot. I shot a lot of running deer back then, because I was hunting a field crossing and the deer were many times running to get across the open area as quickly as possible. The sorrier I shot, the better that load preformed. But make a perfect lung shot, and bullet would just poke a hole in and out, granted it was a .375 hole, but the deer would still run 100 yards or farther. But catch that deer around the fringes or make a raking shot, pretty lousy shooting, really, and it would roll them up, right there.

[Scott Tschirhart]

When John Linebaugh put on his Texas seminars we matched my old .45-70 Sharps rifle, Big Nose Kate against various Safari rifles. The Sharps penetrated 62 inches of wet newspaper and a 2x6 that was backing it and it bounced off a bracing board.

It beat all the big elephant guns even though they were much more powerful.

My load was a cast 520 gr Lyman Government bullet and I loaded it over 70 gr of Goex Cartridge. I think it was probably less than 1100 FPS out of that short barrel.

But this load did not overpower the bullet and it penetrated straight as an arrow when other rifles would not. I think that’s the key. It was powerful enough to penetrate without tearing the bullet up.

[JimT]

That was down in New Braunfels, here in Texas. I was there and remember that. Everyone was surprised by the penetration.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Good times Jim. I miss John.

[JimT]

Yes they were. I am happy I was a part of them. There's too many old friends I miss now. The list keeps getting longer.