Ruger Blackhawk?

[Ysabel Kid]

Guys, Scott's "Carrying a SAA" post got me thinking. I have three Ruger pre-1973 Blackhawks (okay, one is a Super Blackhawk) - or I did before the terrible boating accident a few years back. I haven't fired a "New Model" (what, 53 years old this year!) since the late 1980's, and haven't handled one 20+ years. I love my Old Models though, and just didn't take a shine to the New Models. For those who have real shooting experience with both, what is your opinion on the "New Model". Specifically, has anyone had experience with the round-trigger-guard SBH .44 magnum with the 4.62-inch barrel?

[fordwannabe]

I have a stainless SBH as you describe with the round trigger guard and short barrel. I have shot it extensively with full power and special loads. Heavy as a brick but it doesn’t beat up my fingers the way the old square trigger guard did. I did have mine magna
Ported after about the fourth shot back in the day. I MAY have been
Loading it a little hot back then.
What specifically do you want to know?

[LeverGunner]

I haven't ever shot an old model Blackhawk, but I've shot some Colt clones. I've shot New Model Blackhawks and Single Sixes quite a bit, as it's my preferred platform.

Honestly, I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't prefer them. I want all 6 chambers loaded. I like not having to fiddle with finding the empty chamber if I've cocked the hammer but decided not to fire.

Of the 6-8 I've owned, only 1 didn't have a good trigger, the one I have currently, my flattop. I replaced the hammer with an older BH hammer when I fitted a stainless grip frame. The trigger pull is now great. I needed to change hammers because the ears on the stainless grip frame didn't match the hammer base close enough on the old hammer.

I never had a problem with the chamber not lining up with the ejector rod. I've always unloaded by holding the gun in my left hand and controlling the cylinder with my left thumb. As it rotates, I use my right hand middle finger to actuate the ejector rod. Control of the cylinder is the name of the game for me. I don't find it to be any less important with my flattop which has an indexing chamber/loading gate feature. I don't find the indexing feature of the flattop to shorten my reload time either.

I have owned one of the short barrel Super Blackhawks as well. I shot it a bit, but it had a few issues and Ruger replaced it for me. I sold the NIB replacement because I liked my flattop better, and I could only keep on at the time. It was managable with recoil and muzzle flip.

I wouldn't have had any complaints with it in the first place if it hadn't have had some thread choke. Ruger "fixed" it, then they "fixed" it again, and then finally instead of fixing the third time, they replaced it.

[Scott Tschirhart]

By and large New Model Rugers are excellent guns.

Sometimes there are issues, like any other gun company. But I own both New Models and (mostly) earlier gubs and all of them shoot well or can be made to do so with very little effort.

[Walt]

Of my Ruger single actions only one is an old model, a 7 1/2" SBH. It's a fine gun and it's the only one of 15 that I haven't "doctored" to achieve a 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 lb trigger pull because it didn't need it when I aquired it. I have had a 4 5/8" .45 Colt for close to 45 years and it had the throat choke until I fire-lapped it extensively a few years ago. It shoots much better now. I have a 4 5/8" .44 mag SBH with a round trigger guard which is appreciably more fun to shoot than a Smith m29 with a short barrel, shooting factory-equivalent loads. I have Colts and Freedom Arms revolvers but I shoot my Rugers most often.

[piller]

New model 4 5/8 inch .45 Colt with .45 ACP conversion cylinder. New model Super Blackhawk. Both have been totally dependable.

[Ysabel Kid]

What specifically do you want to know?

Just looking for general opinions. If I got a .44 Magnum, I'd mostly shoot .44 Specials in it, but always like the flexibility. If I got a .45 Colt, I'd want the second .45 ACP cylinder for the same reason. I used to never have an issue with the square-backed trigger guard of the classic SBH, but lately it has become uncomfortable to shoot. Always rapping a knuckle. And though I love "traditional" SAA's, my eyes no longer love their sights. They do like the BH/SBH sights though. In my experience Ruger single-actions are built like tanks, and just last.

[samsi]

I bet it would scratch that itch if you could find one of the Lipsey's Flattop 45 convertibles (mine's not for sale).

In general the OM's have better triggers, I've had 4 and they were all good as acquired. It seems that NM's can always use a little help with the trigger and I've now done the David Bradshaw trigger job a couple times, it makes a huge improvement.

The only thing I don't care for on the OM trigger is the curvature, it starts to dig into my fingertip after a while. I know Jim T has straightened a few of his, seems it would be a worthwhile mod.

[Griff]

I've only owned two Rugers, a Single Six and an OM .357. A buddy owned a new model Super. I never liked it. In my travels when visiting other cowboy clubs, I've shot quite a few borrowed BH & Vaqueros, but I usually refrain. As I just don't like the trigger and action of the NM. The width of the trigger feels foreign, not necessarily uncomfortable, just foreign. In a two-handed grip, they just "feel" quite unlike my Colt.

[Ysabel Kid]

I've only owned two Rugers, a Single Six and an OM .357. A buddy owned a new model Super. I never liked it. In my travels when visiting other cowboy clubs, I've shot quite a few borrowed BH & Vaqueros, but I usually refrain. As I just don't like the trigger and action of the NM. The width of the trigger feels foreign, not necessarily uncomfortable, just foreign. In a two-handed grip, they just "feel" quite unlike my Colt.

Griff, that is what I'm worried about. Muscle memory is a real thing. If I grab a single action, and it "feels" different, I just notice it. Same as I do when I grab a semi-automatic and it is not a 1911. Or a double action that is not a S&W. I guess we all just have our comfortable favorites...

[LeverGunner]

The smaller Ruger XR3 grip frame doesn't fit me. My hand feels bunched. But the larger XR3-RED grip frame fits me, so that's what I go with. I can't remember for sure when the Old Models started using the XR3-RED grip frame, maybe 67?

I fitted a stainless XR3-RED grip frame to my New Model flattop.

[AJMD429]

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YK, I think we both 'grew up' with a Super Blackhawk in the 70's (man that seems like yesterday... )

I think maybe I posted it elsewhere but if your specific issue is with the Super Blackhawk, I have a 1975 new model with the squared back trigger guard and it really raps my knuckles. My original solution was to make complete set of grips out of some scrap mahogany that were larger and wrapped around the back of the metal grip of the gun to fit my hand better (even had a thumb-rest). What I think that did was reposition my middle finger knuckle more to the right rather than in the midline of the gun, so it didn't get smacked by the trigger guard during recoil. Later on I got a Bisley Vaquero and noticed that for my hands it did the same repositioning thing, although it was more the shape of the grip rather than the girth. The Vaquero was only a 357 Mag, and I don't really put super-hot loads in it, so it really didn't matter much, but it did 'educate' me as to the advantage of the Bisley grip.

So then I got a Bisley grip frame for the Super Blackhawk of my youth and installed it, and it's better looking than the grips I had made and I think it like it better overall. I have fired also a 44 Magnum with the rounded trigger guard, and find that it pretty much hits my knuckle just about as badly so I think the key for me is either a thicker grip that causes the hand to pull the fingers back a little bit, pulling the knuckle out of the way, or the Bisley shaped grip which is a little thicker where the base of the thumb is and pulls the hand back and pulls the knuckle out of the way in a similar fashion.

In case it isn't clear from the description, what happens is the middle portion of the middle finger is 'flat' and doesn't get hit by the trigger guard so easily as the knuckle, which is not only thicker, but if the knuckle is just behind the trigger guard, the knuckle is pushed even further forward by the fact that the proximal and middle bones of the finget on each side of the knuckle will be bent in a 'V' shape that has the knuckle thrust foward.

[Ysabel Kid]

.
YK, I think we both 'grew up' with a Super Blackhawk in the 70's (man that seems like yesterday... )

Yes we did!

[Scott Tschirhart]

Seems like the SBH trigger guard used to smack me hard in my youth. But for some reason it doesn’t hurt me anymore.

Back in those days the SBH seemed to have a reputation as the redneck/country boys gun. We almost never saw a Smith 29, but SBHs were as common as .30-30 leverguns.

Today , when it comes to shooting quite a bit of ammunition the Bisley grip frame allows me to shoot much longer without the hand pain the next day.

[piller]

How the grip fits is a major difference in hand pain. The original wood plow handle grips are uncomfortable to me. A Pachmayr grip is comfortable to me. I can shoot more than 10 times as many accurate shots with Pachmayr grips on a SBH as compared to the factory grips.

[JimT]

I grew up shooting Colt Single actions and then what is now the Old Model Rugers. I never purchased a New Model until 1994. I have only bought 3 New Models in my life.

I dislike the action. I do a lot of dry-fire practice. The New Model sounds tinny, like a cap pistol, when you dry-fire it. The firing pin impact on the primer is weaker than the Old Models due to the transfer bar. Back in the early days of experimenting with the 300 gr. bullets in the .45 Ruger, the New Models would not set off a Large Rifle primer, where the Old Models did. The trigger in the New Models moves so far forward it not only looks like a double action, but with heavy recoiling loads the trigger coming forward takes a bite out of the inside of my trigger finger. I had my .475 and my .41 Magnum changed to a trigger that stays at the rear of the trigger guard like they ought to.

Now, all of the above is my subjective, biased, personal opinion and in no way is intended to disparage anyone who loves the New Models nor is it intended as an argument starter. It's just on old guy's prejudiced ideas. But those are my complaints about it.

POSITIVES
Especially on the custom-built 5 shots, the New Model action makes sense. The 475 would be a pain if you could only load 4! Safety-wise, a lot of shooters these days never take the time to really familiarize themselves with the sixgun and get used to it so I am sure being able to load the gun without pulling the hammer to half-cock has stopped a lot of accidental/negligent discharges.

Yes! The Old Models will fire very well from half-cock. I have done it ... on purpose. If the half-cock notch is broken it's not hard to do.

[LeverGunner]

This is not meant at you Jim, and I know you didn't mean your comments in a derogatory way or at me.

The argument for an old model gun always seems to include a statement about new shooters or those that don't take the time to learn the use of a 4 click gun properly. It kinda irritates me, I choose the New Model because it's better (at least for me), not because I'm inept at using an old model.

I agree that the clicks on an old model gun feel and sound better. However, the tactile feedback of a gun doesn't override the ability to load 6 and not have to index the cylinder on an empty chamber. I do value the tactile feel of a gun, as well as the aesthetics. The latter, so much so that it will dictate my choices at least to some extent.

With a 4 click gun, if I draw and cock my gun, I will have to count or look to make sure the hammer goes at rest on the empty chamber when I reholster. OR, I will have to holster on the safety notch. Worse, if I fire a shot or two, then I have to not only reload but also make sure I get the hammer back on the empty chamber.

With a New model, topping off is much easier. Not that it's hard with an old model, but it takes sight and or thought. If you have fired 2 shots with a new model, open the gate, drop the case, insert new a cartridge, turn one (weak) click, and drop the next case and reload 1 more cartridge. Close the loading gate and you're ready to reholster or go again. To me, it's more intuitive and much quicker under less than perfect conditions. I can do it without looking or thinking.

Yes, I am aware you can tend to a 4 click gun the same way without looking or thinking, once you've lived with it forever, but it seems to me the New Model is a fair amount easier in this regard.

Not to mention, I want my gun fully loaded.

That's my take on it.

[Walt]

My shooting is almost always at steel gongs. I always load 5 rounds at a time, old model, new model, Colt or other single actions.

It's not so much a safety issue.

It's because I'm a bit obsessive and my 50 round ammo boxes have 5 rounds in each column.

[JimT]

This is not meant at you Jim, and I know you didn't mean your comments in a derogatory way or at me.

The argument for an old model gun always seems to include a statement about new shooters or those that don't take the time to learn the use of a 4 click gun properly. It kinda irritates me, I choose the New Model because it's better (at least for me), not because I'm inept at using an old model.

I agree that the clicks on an old model gun feel and sound better. However, the tactile feedback of a gun doesn't override the ability to load 6 and not have to index the cylinder on an empty chamber. I do value the tactile feel of a gun, as well as the aesthetics. The latter, so much so that it will dictate my choices at least to some extent.

With a 4 click gun, if I draw and cock my gun, I will have to count or look to make sure the hammer goes at rest on the empty chamber when I reholster. OR, I will have to holster on the safety notch. Worse, if I fire a shot or two, then I have to not only reload but also make sure I get the hammer back on the empty chamber.

With a New model, topping off is much easier. Not that it's hard with an old model, but it takes sight and or thought. If you have fired 2 shots with a new model, open the gate, drop the case, insert new a cartridge, turn one (weak) click, and drop the next case and reload 2 more cartridge. Close loading gate and ready to reholster or go again. To me it's more intuitive, and much quicker under less than perfect conditions. I can do it without looking or thinking.

Yes, I am aware you can tend to a 4 click gun the same way without looking or thinking, once you've lived with it foreever, but it seems to me the New Model is a fair amount easier in this regard.

Not to mention, I wan't my gun fully loaded.

That's my take on it

Thanks.
I don't disagree.
It's just a personal preference for me.
I ain't saying the old is better. I am saying I like them better.
They are better for me.
But then, there's a lot of old stuff I like ...

[LeverGunner]

Wow, my post was rife with typos. I was typing while my boy was "dadding" me. I love the boy, but when a young'un is nagging you, it ain't conducive to proper english.