Need help from more experienced reloaders

[black river smith]

Now I have been reloading for 35+ years and have bought a LOT of reloading dies/equipment.

But here is the issue I am seeing with a set of CH 41 Colt, marked dies. The 41 Colt Sizer die is normal overall length but the sizing area is not full length like most Lee, RCBS, Pacific, Hornady, Lyman, Herters or even CH 38 special dies, you get the picture of some of my experience. The sizing area is more like a collar/ringlet that measures 0.398" ID but runs only 0.380 - 0.390" into the die body(hard for me to get exact length measurement). After this length the die body enlarges in diameter and is a rough cut surface. The sizer will reduce the brass to 0.406"OD with 0.384"ID mouth, this is all fine. I have been pushing new and fired brass all the way into the sizer up to the shellholder like with normal steel dies, with no observed issues. At first, I was only loading heel base bullets pushing them in with the seater stem far enough out and then separate crimping. But at Christmas, I bought a MP HB 0.386" bullet mold for inside loading and crimping. It was then, that I found the seater crimp die in this set was cut for the older 1.13" COL rather than the Starline 1.125" length. I had to grind some of the seater base off, obviously to crimp.

These are older dies, pre carbide. The sizing part of the die is only the steel collar/ringlet. There is absolutely no brass support past this collar/ring. The collar is at the base/mouth of the die and runs only the 0.380" length up into the die then it has the enlarged diameter cavity, no supporting upper surface. The brass mouth goes in, slides through the collar, then the brass mouth and neck hit the enlarged unsupported space as the brass mid-section and base hit the bottom of the die, inside the collar. There is no full body supporting surface to this die just the steel collar at the mouth of the die.

As I stated, I know and use Modern dies, but this CH die is manufactured totally different than any die I have ever seen before. What is it? What was the design intent? Was it a Neck Only sizer for a straight walled casing? It is not built like the modern Neck Only Sizers for Bottlenecked rifle cartridges.
So, my question IS - What is going on with the sizer die?? Since the seater, in this set was originally cut for the full length 41 Long Colt brass. Why is the sizer not like other sizer bodies? What knowledge am I missing?

Parting comments -- Yes, I have only one 41LC gun, so I DO NOT have to full length re-size every time but it IS what I always do. I measured the MP bullet base to crimp area and it is 0.400". So, IF this is a neck only sizer do I have an issue that it is still short?

Thanks for any comments or ideas about this die.

[coyote nose]

You are not missing anything. I too have non carbide dies like this. Herters used to do this, as did other manufacturers. In fact I just looked at my Herters 38 Spl dies and the sizing die is as you described. It works fine with straight walled cartridges. If you think about it, in a straight wall case all sizing is done by the very bottom of the sizer die (assuming no taper to the case). My assumption is that it was a money saving idea....make up a huge run of die bodies and only have to precision make the collar/ringlet and of course the mating area for this collar in the die body.
Funny you bring up 41 Colt. I started reloading for that in the 90s but couldn't find dies so I lathe turned my own. For the sizer I did exactly that: turned a die body from low carbon steel, then made a sizer collar from tool steel, heat treated that collar for hardness and interference fit it into the die body. 30 years later still going strong. Early this year I found a 41 Long Colt RCBS die set at a gun show for $25. I picked it up of course then modified the set I made back in the 90s to reload 41 Short Colt.....didn't have to touch the sizing die.

[black river smith]

coyote nose,

I thank you for that historical information. That is exactly what I was hoping to hear. I even went through my NRA 1963 reloading book and could not find any indication of this type of die.

This spring and early summer I attempted something like you but... what I can do is not what you did. I started with a cheap older RCBS 38 special die and tempered it soft. Then reamed it out to get a straight full body die. I ended up going 0.002 over even before polishing. A Loss.

A $25 set of RCBS 41 Long Colt dies....GEEESSSS ...... but nice find. That was lucky. Wouldn't mind doing something like that. The CH cost me $64 back in 2016.

I have been working with this 41LC cartridge since 2015, obviously on and off because I did not shoot a lot of the heeled bullets, that often. But with the MP mold and the load I have made up, not tested yet, we will see if things change.

Again Thanks for having this historical experience and sharing it.
BRS