I love modern electronics in my truck, but when they don’t work..

[Scott Tschirhart]

This is how I feel.

[AJMD429]

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Same here.

Sadly my truck is a 1983 that has so much cab-rust that the cab is 'sinking' and keeps moving the transmission linkage somehow (according to the guy who keeps it running), and that messes things up alot.

But I'd rather not have anything 'power' other than the engine, defroster, and heater, and not really any 'computer' things if I can avoid them.

I don't even mind having to get out and manually engage the front wheels to get in 4wd mode...

[Bronco]

When I was younger and thinner if it started to rain while I was working on the engine I could climb in and lower the hood to stay dry
Still get kicks driving my 72 Bronco I have had since 75!

[jeepnik]

As mentioned, I still have my 82 CJ8. But in 2020 when I was looking for a new pickup I looked real hard at the new Gladiator. But if I had gone that route I'd likely have felt I needed to sell the CJ. Frankly, for off road use the old DJ is better suited. So I bought a Tacoma with all the bells and whistles (I like gadgets) and remain a "real" Jeeper.

[COSteve]

I got our 2016 Tahoe new in Sept 2015 to replace our 2002 Tahoe that had 100K miles on it and the 2016 is far and away the smoothest running, most quite riding vehicle I've ever owned, bar none. Even my wife's 1988 Cad Fleetwood that I hated to drive as it was not me was not as quiet to drive as my Tahoe.

At close to 70K miles it is my highway car for touring and hands down the best one I've ever owned. I taken it on trips all over the US (NY to CA, ND to FL) as we use her Honda CR-V for in town driving. I really like the display screen where I have WAZE running all the time while I'm on a trip or just driving in town. It's saved me from traffic jams and wrecks numerous time which is why I always use it even around the local Denver area.

[COSteve]

BTW, my daughter lives in Austin where there are a ton of Cyber trucks where all the drivers there are crazy according to her. The nickname around town for the drivers of them is "Cyber Douches".

[Walt]

I suspect there is a significant number of Tacoma owners among our members. I have owned several; basic 2 wheel drives when I was working which cumulatively accumulated well over a million miles. Those little trucks were excellent vehicles but when I retired I decided to treat myself. I bought a 4WD four door Tacoma with all the gizmos. I still don't know what some of that electronic wizardry is for but I feel this new truck is the best vehicle I've ever owned.

Other vehicles I've owned include mostly Fords but also GMs, Dodges and a Jeep Cherokee. Imports have included cars from Nissan and VW. With one of my basic Tacomas, I did have a timing chain issue at 300K miles, on another I didn't even replace belts and hoses until almost 400K miles, doing nothing but routine maintenance. My next to last 2WD Tacoma accumulated 501K miles before I sold it....I admit it was pretty worn out but I did practically no mechanical repair work on it. They are wonderful, well-made vehicles.

[4t5]

They charge an awful lot for stuff I’m never gonna use !

[Ysabel Kid]

They are indeed just computers with four wheels anymore.

Remember when the average Joe could work on their own car?

[jeepnik]

They are indeed just computers with four wheels anymore.

Remember when the average Joe could work on their own car?

Ahh! Another one who has bought into the manufacturers lie that you can't work on your own car these days. Nuts are still nuts, bolts are still bolts (most lefty loosey, righty tighty but not all). Yes, there is electronics but for those components, when they fail you just replace them. And most of those are plug in with maybe some screws or small nuts and bolts to hold it down.

Yes, but how do I know what's broken. It's called a code reader and they are cheap. They pretty much tell you what's wrong. Can't figure out how to fix it? YouTube is your friend, often showing step by step.

You go to the dealer and see the big ole diagnostic machines and are so impressed. Pretty sure they are sort of like the Great Oz. Not much hiding inside a big empty box. Oh, if you get into specialty tuning and such you will need a laptop and some software but that's about it.

Public service warning. If you have soft & weak hands. Or freak out when you get a paper cut and need to go to the ER, do not attempt the above. You usually won't find a puppy or blanket in garages where folks fix their own cars. Well actually, you often will find a dog laying around getting in the way. Or in my case a fat lazy cat.

[Ysabel Kid]

I'm just saying it is much harder to work on them. Even replacing headlights can be darn near impossible given the amount of stuff you have to remove just to get at them!

[Scott Tschirhart]

I changed my own oil, my own transmission fluid, transfer case fluid and differential fluid in my Jeep.

There’s not even a drain plug on the differentials in this truck.

Everything is electronic. Including a system that shuts the engine off when you are at a stop light. When it works, it works fine. If there’s a glitch in the program, it’s beyond a righty tighty to fix. And it will leave you stranded.

[jeepnik]

I'm just saying it is much harder to work on them. Even replacing headlights can be darn near impossible given the amount of stuff you have to remove just to get at them!

Not harder, just more time consuming. If like me fixing broken things is "therapy" spending a few extra minutes with a tool in my hand is welcome.

[jeepnik]

I changed my own oil, my own transmission fluid, transfer case fluid and differential fluid in my Jeep.

There’s not even a drain plug on the differentials in this truck.

Everything is electronic. Including a system that shuts the engine off when you are at a stop light. When it works, it works fine. If there’s a glitch in the program, it’s beyond a righty tighty to fix. And it will leave you stranded.

Many of today's vehicle will go into limp mode when things aren't working right. That's a pretty a helpful thing for most drivers today since most drivers barely know how to put gas in the tank. I will admit there are some things that are more difficult to deal with, especially off road. For instance if the mechanical fuel pump goes out on my CJ I can hook up a tube, two liter bottle and a pair of vice grips to put fuel into the carb. If it's fuel injected, you are going to have to drop the tank and either fix or replace the fuel pump. Of course I now carry a spare mechanical fuel pump in my Jeep box. These are usually a heck of a lot smaller that in-tank units.

[.45colt]

We have driven two Subaru Forester's and a 2020 Ascent more than 250k. The Ascent had just under 100k on it and I traded it while it still had some value on a new Hyundai Santa Fe three weeks ago. Front and rear sensors for safety, press a button to lock the 4wd . so far it runs like a top. The new Santa Fe isn't a small car at all and with the 4cyl turbo it is getting 28mpg. I upgraded the bumper to bumper warranty to match the 100k powertrain warranty. I'll be 71 pretty soon and it may be the last car I ever buy. Living here in the rust belt nothing lasts much over ten years. The Wife went into shock over it but today the average Guy cant afford big repairs on todays cars.

[Gunstore Commando]

I am searching for a good, systematic way to find out what "features" are present in any new vehicle I might consider. Over-the-air software updates are a non-starter. Geofencing is a non-starter -- if I wanted to live in a "15 minute city" (for which read "to be confined to a 15 minute city") I would have voted differently. Most of the new-fangled things that want to jerk the wheel away from you, like "lane assist", are non-starters. For that matter, there's probably plenty of things I don't even know about yet that are non-starters.

Anyone got any ideas on how to start figuring this out?

[jeepnik]

Pretty much all of these features you fear can be turned off.

[gcs]

All that fun stuff is nice, but costly, I'd be happy with a basic no frills model that doesn't cost 60G... not gonna happen cause people want all the goodies and more.

[Gunstore Commando]

Pretty much all of these features you fear can be turned off.

I'm not sure that "fear" is exactly the right term, but in any case that would give me a concern that The Party would turn them back on, remotely.

[JimT]

I refuse to own a vehicle ... or even rent one ... that does stuff on its own. My truck does not have electric windows or automatically dimming lights or even lights that turn on by themselves. It has a stick transmission and if you want to unlock the doors you have to put a key into the door lock. Yes, it's old but so am I and we are happy together.

If I could have my dream car it would probably be either the 1947 Mercury Coupe that I had as a teenager or my 1956 Chevy half ton pickup I had a few years later.

[Scott Tschirhart]

My dad’s old Chevy Apache (I think a 1960 model) with three on the tree was what I learned to drive with.

I actually like the modern features……until they don’t work.

I want a foreign market Toyota Hi-Lux small diesel. But I apparently can’t have one.

[Wiresguy]

I'd buy a Hi-Lux if they were available here. Probably the CAFE standards thing, but who knows?

My 2013 Tacoma only has 76,000 miles on it and should last me the rest of my life. No desire for a newer model with more useless stuff on it.

Three years ago we bought a new Subaru Outback. The evening of the purchase I went online and bought the Auto-Stop-Start Eliminator. Easy install and does away with the stop-start nonsense. Best $100 I ever spent on vehicle related item. Wife's car and other than too much road noise, she loves it.

[JimT]

My dad’s old Chevy Apache (I think a 1960 model) with three on the tree was what I learned to drive with.

I actually like the modern features……until they don’t work.

I want a foreign market Toyota Hi-Lux small diesel. But I apparently can’t have one.

The Hilux we had in Mozambique was an amazing machine. 3.0 diesel .. 4WD ... skid plates under front and rear differentials and under the oil pan .. If I could have imported it I would have loved to bring it back to the States. I gave it to the Pastor of the church in the village where we had the goat herd. He is still using it.

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My wife would not ride in the truck across this bridge. She got out and walked across.

[CraigC]

I've pretty much thrown in the towel on new vehicles. I bought a new `16 Ram 2500 with the Cummins and thought I'd drive it until I was an old man. I work from home so I don't put a lot of miles on a vehicle. At less than three years old, I took it in for basic type nitpicking recalls and the idiots at the dealership caused a problem with the auto-leveling rear air bags. It sat in the shop for THREE MONTHS before it was all over with. Between that and $400 oil changes, I sold it. I found an `03 Chevy 2500 with the 8.1 big block and only 37,000 miles on Ebay. I've decided that it's the newest vehicle I want to own. All the technology the Dodge came with that I actually wanted (navigation/modern head unit/speakers & amps/2000watt inverter, etc.), I was able to add to it. I can also replace it if need be. If I can't fix it, my local shop can. Factory electronics are minimal and if it ever gets infested with gremlins, I'll rip it all out and put a new crate motor in it with aftermarket EFI or I'll sell it and get something from the `80's.

[jeepnik]

If you can change an engine why were you paying $400 for an oil change?

[CraigC]

If you can change an engine why were you paying $400 for an oil change?

Two fuel filters at $100 apiece and 12 quarts of synthetic oil, it adds up. The labor was the smallest component. It hasn't been worth it to me to do my own oil changes in years.

[jeepnik]

If you can change an engine why were you paying $400 for an oil change?

Two fuel filters at $100 apiece and 12 quarts of synthetic oil, it adds up. The labor was the smallest component. It hasn't been worth it to me to do my own oil changes in years.

If they charged you $100 for a fuel or oil filter, they saw you coming. No offense, but that must be a dealer price.

[TedH]

My dad’s old Chevy Apache (I think a 1960 model) with three on the tree was what I learned to drive with.

Scott, here's my '59 Apache. 283 with 3 on the tree.
My Dad bought this before I was old enough to drive.

Screenshot_20250113_200323_Gallery.jpg

[CraigC]

If they charged you $100 for a fuel or oil filter, they saw you coming. No offense, but that must be a dealer price.

Sorry but it's not that kind of shop. They got `em where they got `em, they cost what they cost. I don't know what your intent here is but do we really need to analyze line by line the oil changes that I paid for on a vehicle I haven't owned in 2yrs? Yes, I'm capable of doing an engine swap and just about anything else but no, I don't feel compelled to change my oil. It's a hassle I don't want or need.

https://store.mopar.com/oem-parts/mopar ... 68157291aa

[jeepnik]

Just making conversation.

[Walt]

CraigC, your Chevy truck is beautiful.....thanks for the picture!

[Scott Tschirhart]

Scott, here's my '59 Apache. 283 with 3 on the tree.
My Dad bought this before I was old enough to drive.

Screenshot_20250113_200323_Gallery.jpg

Absolutely gorgeous

[gcs]

problem here is those older less technology trucks are all rotted away...I'd get a HiLux in a hot second if they'd allow it...

[CraigC]

CraigC, your Chevy truck is beautiful.....thanks for the picture!

Thanks! Other than the exterior plastic being sun damaged, it was practically new when I got it, at 19yrs old. The tires were also dry rotted. I replaced the tires, lights and mirrors. Installed a new head unit with navigation, two amps, new door speakers and two 10" subs under the rear seat. I put in a 2000watt inverter and tucked all the electronics behind the back seat. The only thing I want but haven't done yet is a winch bumper. Here it is next to the Dodge it replaced.

[CraigC]

problem here is those older less technology trucks are all rotted away...I'd get a HiLux in a hot second if they'd allow it...

They are and the ones that aren't are crazy expensive. This truck was for sale locally. It's a `51 Chevy body on an `80's K20 frame. It' s a cool truck and they did a decent job with the conversion but it needs a lot of work. Both the cab and bed floor are rotted out. They wanted $25k for it. Unreal.

[marlinman93]

I do appreciate the newer vehicles we own, but not much I do on them myself like I can on my three old vehicles. There's nothing that goes wrong on my 1969 Chev Suburban, 1939 Chev coupe, or 1937 Austin sedan that I can't fix. They're just so very simple and easy to work on.
Fortunately we live where hard winters and road salts aren't an issue, so cars last a very long time if they aren't left in a field to rot away. My '39 Chev was found in the advanced stages of rotting away as it was left sitting on the ground in a field for over 20 years, and the entire bottom 5"-6" of the floors and body were rotted away. Still worth saving as the rest of the body was in great shape, and the frame was stored in a barn, and looked like new!
Every time I drive one of my old vehicles it puts a smile on my face! I drive the '69 Suburban all year, but the '39 and '37 have far too much of my time into building them, so they only get driven in nice weather. If the '69 Suburban ever needs any new engine, trans, or rear axle, I'll gladly spend the time and money to replace them and keep on driving it!

[Twodot]

nice 'burban marlinman93, is that the year with 1 door on the drivers side?
..

[Streetstar]

I suspect there is a significant number of Tacoma owners among our members. I have owned several; basic 2 wheel drives when I was working which cumulatively accumulated well over a million miles. Those little trucks were excellent vehicles but when I retired I decided to treat myself. I bought a 4WD four door Tacoma with all the gizmos. I still don't know what some of that electronic wizardry is for but I feel this new truck is the best vehicle I've ever owned.

Other vehicles I've owned include mostly Fords but also GMs, Dodges and a Jeep Cherokee. Imports have included cars from Nissan and VW. With one of my basic Tacomas, I did have a timing chain issue at 300K miles, on another I didn't even replace belts and hoses until almost 400K miles, doing nothing but routine maintenance. My next to last 2WD Tacoma accumulated 501K miles before I sold it....I admit it was pretty worn out but I did practically no mechanical repair work on it. They are wonderful, well-made vehicles.

Here here ! I was "coerced" into buying a Taco by my lady friend when i totalled my F150. - I had a company truck at the time so thought - "who cares - im never going to drive it anyway, its hers "

Anyhow - the little truck -- and its not exactly little - this double cab with a 5' bed is longer than my old Cheyenne Super with a long bed -- but ive coaxed it into doing work , and its just a nice to drive machine
- i have room in my heart for a older F250 (95-97ish) if i need a big truck again , but the Taco does it all well enough

[kaschi]

Unfortunately technology costs money, lots of money. In the dog eat dog world, the manufacturers try to outdo each other to build a better mousetrap, and in so doing, have managed to raise the price of pickups up into the 40K range, even upwards of 70K or more with all the bells and whistles. What "common" middle class man raising a family and making home mortgage payments can afford this? The liver has now been fattened and the patient will have to deal with the results.

What's needed is a no frills, bare bones PU at an affordable cost. But that probably ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

[Grizz]

There is that. Most of the complications come from emissions standards, [which i support, i guess], but that computer driven standard required fuel injection that is modulated in fractions of seconds to maintain the least possible amount of unburned fuel. then on top of all that "they" put racing engines into work vehicles, and i am one of "them" with 2 toyotas with double overhead cam engines, which i think has to do with scavenging waste more effectively, not sure why we have racing engines in our trucks, which were much better served with long stroke push-rod engines, which have massive torque and can operate as stationary engines.

i keep playing with the idea of putting a detroit 3-53 engine in the 4 runner, just because. OR a chevy 292 inline 6, just because. but i am past that phase now . . . i just haven't quite let it go . . . yet . . .

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99 Gen 3 Truck with Tundra wheels and front brakes, on 265-65-17 goodyears. this gave me the same speedo as the stock setup with proper stopping and climbing powers . . . and aux trans cooler so i can run the AC parked in rest areas ...

[Griff]

My dad’s old Chevy Apache (I think a 1960 model) with three on the tree was what I learned to drive with.

Scott, here's my '59 Apache. 283 with 3 on the tree. My Dad bought this before I was old enough to drive.
Screenshot_20250113_200323_Gallery.jpg

I first learned to drive in a '51 Plymouth, sitting on Dad's lap... finally @ around 12, learned to drive in a... Yep, a '59 Apache with 6 and 3 on the tree. Although Dad's was a dark green. It was also my 2nd vehicle, but by then it a 354 ci hemi in it. Man, that thing would chew thru tires!

Today, the only running vehicle I have without a computer is my Honda GX390 powered 2002 EZGO golf cart. It's only electronIc part is the flasher. Although when done, the '55-½ Chevy p/u isn't slated to have a computer... but if Holley's "Sniper" fuel injection gets much cheaper, that might change. My 2005 K3500 with the 5 spd Allison trans started having shifting issues, checked the code: P0700... whole list of potential issues. Tackled the easiest first. Changed the fluid and both filters. 13 quarts of fluid & new filters later, all is well. At least for the couple of short test drives I did after the change.

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[Paladin]

Like Jim, I wanted the HI-Lux I had in Africa but they would not let me bring it to the States. So I have to settle for this 1971 Toyota Land Cruiser that we drive on the dirt roads in AZ. When I am not driving my 2016 F-350 to and from Alaska or my wife's 2017 Toyota 4 Runner.

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[marlinman93]

nice 'burban marlinman93, is that the year with 1 door on the drivers side?
..

It's a 1969 and all Suburbans from '67 to '72 had three doors. Two on passenger side, and one driver's side. Supposedly Chevy left off the driver's side rear door so passengers wouldn't get out into traffic. At least that's the story I heard.

[Shasta]

Electronics? What electronics? We don't need no stinking electronics!



Shasta

[Grizz]

Like Jim, I wanted the HI-Lux I had in Africa but they would not let me bring it to the States. So I have to settle for this 1971 Toyota Land Cruiser that we drive on the dirt roads in AZ. When I am not driving my 2016 F-350 to and from Alaska or my wife's 2017 Toyota 4 Runner.

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Your Cruiser looks like my Dad's that I soloed on dirt roads on the Rim, must have been before '63 . . that's a Memory Bank right there!

[Grizz]

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I first learned to drive in a '51 Plymouth, sitting on Dad's lap... finally @ around 12, learned to drive in a...

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here's a 50 Plymouth that was my first car. bought it from the tow-away place across the street for 25$.
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and my first pickup, a '45 Dodge with floor shift. used to be a chicken coop in Placerville for some long years. I won the bet with the owner that I could get it running.

this was after several years of living with and on an R-50 that took me everywhere i went.

so yeah, don't need no stinking electronics . . .

[Walt]

That's a mighty fine looking Land Cruiser, Paladin!

Thanks for the pictures...

[marlinman93]

Having been weaned on pre computer cars and going through GM Training school back in 1968-69 I just haven't had any interest in even learning computerized vehicles. At my age now it would be a waste of my time to even consider learning the basics.
I'll stick to building my old school hotrods that are easy to build and work on!

[jeepnik]

Marlinman. Can you turn a wrench? Can you connect plugs? For all the hoopla new cars only have different, and easier, diagnostics.

Doubt it's easier? Look at the quality of today's "mechanics".

[oldebear1950]

My brother was a mechanic. He actually built two muscle cars, and kept his trucks running for years. Rebuilt motors, transmissions, both automatic and stick, and rear ends.
But as he got older said he was not interested in having to buy a computer and software just to see what was going on with his wifes car and his truck.
Some things he could do, and mechanics was easy for him. But he would always say he was not an electrician and more and more vehicles became a bed of electronics with 4 wheels