Celebrities Burned Out of Homes in Fires

[COSteve]

Weren't most of these celebrities moving out of the country after Trump won again anyway?

The state and local officials responsible for the failed fire policies have certainly simplified the moving requirements for some of those celebrities.

There is a lot less to pack up and move now. For some, they can now pack everything in a couple of motorcycle saddle bags or a car rather than in an 18-wheeler.

[jeepnik]

Steve, next time your area suffers a disaster, I will try to remember to pile on. People are suffering, and most aren't celebrities but just plain working folks. If you can't bring yourself to sympathize, much less donate time or money to help, "KEEP YOUR darn MOUTH SHUT".

[COSteve]

I specifically said celebrities, and was not talking about the majority of the people who were impacted by the fires, I just talked about those few effete snobs in show business who believe themselves to be better than all us riffraff they believe are beneath them. So, don't try to lecture me about your misunderstanding of what I said.

[Old Savage]

A small portion of what burned in one fire. There are seven last count? A senior center was evacuated in one with people in wheelchairs and beds out in the night cold in 60 mph winds being evacuated. In Altadena/Pasadena the old poor sections of town were the hardest hit. So far 10,000+ homes and businesses have burned. Many were not home so many pets were victims.

On and on it goes.

[Old Savage]

https://www.facebook.com/ABC7/videos/61 ... wXIfr&fs=e

[Old Savage]

And

[gamekeeper]

Looks pretty bad, prayers up for the folks affected.

[Old Savage]

Current, 21,000 acres burned 8° contained.

Nothing for humor here. The lights are houses.

[Old Savage]

More, those flames are typically 50 ft high.

[AJMD429]

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Sad, but even more tragically ... predictable. And probably avoidable.

I know part of the logistic issue is trying to build a house that is resistant to earthquake but also fires. Frame buildings can tolerate a little shaking whereas masonry ones will shatter, but masonry ones are required to be resistant to fire. It does seem like a lot of the houses would have been protected somewhat if they simply had metal roofs, so I'm not sure why that isn't more common.

I guess also there is a tendency to landscape with plants like eucalyptus that are highly flammable

Of course the people who didn't have much money couldn't do a lot but I would think that the wealthy ones would consider building at least a safe room in their home where they could go in the event of a fire.

[2ndovc]

Doc,
With all respect, how in the world could one build a "fire safe" room in even a large home that would not turn out to be where everyone in the house would just go to die together? The ventilation problem alone would prevent any type of safe room solution during a massive, neighborhood wide fire. Auxiliary oxygen tanks are out due to their own flammable nature and maintenance issues. A safe room on the upper floor of a multilevel structure would be out as the floors below would collapse long before help could arrive. The problems of such a suggestion, far outweigh any plausible solutions. Other than don't build on top of each other in an unpredictable environment.

As for the OP of this topic. Maybe admitting you stuck your foot in your mouth instead of fighting back might have been a better option.
Just a thought.

Jason

[Old Savage]

The latest they are showing us.

[jeepnik]

Oh, I'm sure a fireproof bunker could be built. Dig down thirty feet, build the bunker with its own self contained power, water and air systems. Hey they build subs that stay underwater for long periods of time

But at what cost? And like a sub it would need constant maintenance and repair.

Unlike the Paradise Fire a few years ago most folks had plenty of warning. Sadly some invalided folks couldn't get out. Not so sad are those who refused to leave(happens every natural disaster no matter where it occurs).

Again, like all disasters they are limited in the geographical area. In most cases driving only a few miles brings you to safety.

[COSteve]

What with the reports of Gov. Newsom cutting the fire budget by $100M months before the fires. That California fire prevention took a hit the year before the fires as well. And recent reports that a company that monitors electrical activity says faults along the Los Angeles power grid soared in the same areas where three of this week’s major wildfires are occurring leads me to conclude that there will be finger pointing, arguing and likely lawsuits for years after the fires are out.

[Old Savage]

Right there. The effects are very widely spread.

[AJMD429]

Doc,
With all respect, how in the world could one build a "fire safe" room in even a large home that would not turn out to be where everyone in the house would just go to die together? The ventilation problem alone would prevent any type of safe room solution during a massive, neighborhood wide fire. Auxiliary oxygen tanks are out due to their own flammable nature and maintenance issues. A safe room on the upper floor of a multilevel structure would be out as the floors below would collapse long before help could arrive. The problems of such a suggestion, far outweigh any plausible solutions. Other than don't build on top of each other in an unpredictable environment.

I agree the last part is the key...

However, if you built a room underground (3 feet or so of soil on top), amply sized, and NOT under your house, but off to the side at least as far as your house is tall (ok to have access from the basement via a hallway if long enough, makes a turn, and proper fire doors), it would stay plenty cool during the relatively brief time the area above it would be burning off some grass, a couple shrubs, and whatever branches of trees fell farther than anticipated. You'd likely not need oxygen, but remember people do ok on 'room air' so if you wanted to you could have compressed air stored, and that wouldn't accellerate flames if exhausted carelessly (and you could also engineer controlled exhaust in a safe place blown under water into a cistern, for instance). You definitely wouldn't want to be near your house's toppling and flaming walls, or under the long-burning timbers though.

I'm not saying very many people would prioritize spending $500,000 having some fancy outfit build an official Fire Safe Room, and doubtfully the regulators would let them do a do-it-yourself project for it, but it is the way I think, and the type thing I would do if I really wanted to live in a highly-flammable environment. I could probably get away with it, as my 'flammable environment' would be in the middle of a pine woods, NOT in the middle of a bunch of landscaped mansions. Depending on if you wanted waste the money/space on ONLY a fire-safe room, or preferred to make it a liveable and comfortable tornado-room, home-invasion control center, and nuclear winter bunker - or just a place to retreat when the mother-in-law visits - you could do it in a couple weekends with a backhoe and a truckload or two of concrete blocks and treated wood, or definitely spend more on it than most homes cost.

I prefer the midwest, where it isn't a forest/mansion fire we fear, but tornados, and oddly-enough - earthquakes (New Madrid fault supposed to 'go, and go big' any time now... ). My home is masonry so semi-tornado proof, but we don't have a basement even, and our hosue would turn to pile of gravel if there were a serious earthquake, but at least it isn't big and tall so we might survive. If I knew we were going to stay in the home we started 35 years ago, I'd have sited it on higher ground and at least built a basement. No fire-proof room for me though - masonry exterior and metal roof and no conifers nearby.

[2ndovc]

Maybe, but I still don't want to be the one to test it out. I've seen the aftermath of too many house fires and it still freaks me out. I'd rather take on some Zombie Hordes!

Totally agree on your take of the Midwest. Our quake are small and rare, but you never can tell for sure. No tsunamis, hurricanes, forest fires, floods, etc. etc.

We also get the occasional tornado, but I've never owned a home or built one without a basement. The house I have now has a fairly small basement, but big enough for me and the dogs and store some essentials and it's granite! First time in 30+ years I've been far enough from the water not to need flood ins. The winters are awful, but usually fairly short (except for this year) and have terrific summers. I'm not going anywhere. Every year after my dad gets to FL, he starts complaining. Nothing to do, it's too hot, or cold or windy. Finally one day I asked him when he became such a sissy? He didn't think is was as funny as I did!

jb

[jeepnik]

If you were going to try and build such a space there's something you have to learn first. Fire is a living, breathing, malevolent entity. It only wants to consume, grow and propagate. As a side hobby it wants to only to kill you.

[AJMD429]

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Here's a snippet of news on Zane Grey's historic home - evidently "Altadena's first fireproof home", so clearly some designs don't survive...!!!

I think the problem is (as others have noted) that for one thing, something doesn't have to burn in order for fire to destroy it - masonry can be heat-damaged and crack or shatter, and steel can soften and bend. In addition, if the environment becomes destructive to human life, either through oxygen deprivation or excessive, even brief, heat, it can make being 'fireproof' a moot point.

Still, knowing firefighters who have survived forest fires using a shallow trench and coverage with a thermal shield and thin layer of soil, clearly one could survive in a properly-designed and built fireproof room. However for me, if I had the millions of dollars needed to live in those LA neighborhoods, and could thus afford a fancy underground survival room, that would mean I had enough money to live out in the middle of nowhere and would be nowhere near such a conflagration. Even if I built a fancy house in the middle of a pine woods, I'd not have any trees or flammable duff allowed within 300 ft of my house.

"...The historic Zane Grey Estate, acclaimed as Altadena’s first fireproof home, has tragically been destroyed by the Eaton Fire. The Mediterranean Revival-style house was built in 1907 by Chicago business magnate Arthur Herbert Woodward and designed by architects Myron Hunt and Elmer Grey. It was built entirely of reinforced concrete, a design requested by Woodward's wife, Edith Norton Woodward, who was a survivor of the Iroquois Theater Fire of 1903 in Chicago.

In 1920, Woodward sold the estate to Zane Grey, a best-selling novelist who subsequently expanded the residence, adding a 3,500-square-foot library and office where he did most of his writing. The house was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 2002..."

That is sad...

[AJMD429]

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the Will Rogers' home also burned...

But THIS one survived…

https://youtu.be/YQzJUsUO-5c

Another thing that would occur to me in that environment would be to have 50,000 gallons or so of water in a cistern or even swimming pool and a built-in house sprinkler system. We have a sprinkler system built into our roof, just to cool the house. But it would Also come in handy if there were embers landing on our roof, if it were flammable.

[El Chivo]

Right there. The effects are very widely spread.

not a celebrity, but my friend from the silhouette club (LASC) lost his house and everything according to second hand info. He was in Alta Dena.

[AJMD429]

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The people I've known, including some relatives, who have lost their home to fire, say the loss is weird in that it may be years later and you realize yet ANOTHER thing you lost in the fire, some copy of a photo or diploma or clothing or whatever - maybe not much value, maybe huge value, but it just keeps happening year after year - LONG AFTER the initial shock.

[El Chivo]

this guy had lived there a long time, used to do photography which were all over his walls, at least a dozen computers, plus a separate reloading shed in the backyard with an amazing collection of brass and bullets.

[jeepnik]

I'm going to say this. It may get deleted by admin. But, because of some of the heartless comments I have read. Here goes.

Piling on to those who have lost their homes, pets and loved ones "during" a disaster (you can't even wait until the fires are out) makes you a pretty miserable excuse for a human being.