Depressed. Stupid bear.

[FLINT]

For the last 22 years I've hunted on a 40 acre property that a now retired coworker owns (and lives on). In the early days, me and a friend (that the landowner also knew) hunted together there which was cool, but from the late 2000s until 2020 I had exclusive access to the property and got real used to having the property to myself. By the late 2010s I had four ladder stands and a few game cameras out and knew mostly what bucks were around each year so I knew who to look out for when hunting, which is kind of cool. In exchange for hunting rights, I did quite a bit of work for the land owner over the years. Lots of tree and brush cutting and help with other projects, etc. Then in about 2020 or 2021, a bear had been passing through the property which got the land owner all riled up and he talked about it with anyone he knew. So, some aquaintance of his wife heard about the bear and apparently told him that he'd like to shoot a bear, so the landowner said he'd love for him to get rid of it. The bear didn't really stick around very long, but now this other jack hole has. Each year, the guy spends more and more time now hunting deer on the property and has claimed the best spot on the property to hunt. Every evening I dread the text from this doofus letting me know that he'll be hunting the next day. I don't think the landowner remotely understands that or why I would be bothered by any of this. There really isn't room for two random guys to independently hunt this property. I mean sure, technically there is enough room for us to go sit somewhere, but there's not enough room for us to both "hunt" the property. I just got a text from the land owner that this other guy was telling him about the four different bucks he saw on his game camera. My heart sank. so now this guy is setting out game cameras? This guy is totally taking over. I haven't mentioned my displeasure to the land owner as he his having health issues and so the timing is definitely not good and it would seem super selfish and inappropriate for me to complain to this guy about the hunting arrangments since he's ill. I think he land owner thinks everything is hunky dory. And probably thinks that we're all great friends. But I find myself having a really bad attitute about this interloper moving in on my hunting grounds. Yes, there are plenty of deer to 'share'. But I don't just want deer in the freezer. It's just hard to get used to not having free reign any more. I thought that I'd be able to own my own hunting property by now. We had to declare bankruptsy ten years ago and it just dropped off our credit this year, so ideally we'd be able to buy something this year, except that because of the stupid plandemic and all of the other awesomeness from the last four years that has caused real estate prices in this area to skyrocket, so we can't afford anything here any more. another contributing factor is all of the libtard retirees and remote workers from NOVA that are moving into the area and jacking up land prices. Certainly some of you either own or have intimate ties to land or property and can imagine how much it would suck for something about your ability to enjoy that land to change. anyways, I'm rambling now. I'm wondering if I should offer to pay the landowner for exclusive hunting rights to the property? I tried looking into hunting leases around locally, but those kind of suck also. LIke the ones I saw, you have to pay a bunch of money but you don't get exclusive hunting rights. Other people also pay to hunt there and I guess you pay for certain days or weeks of the year or something. seems lame. anyways, everything keeps getting worse all around. Sorry for the long rambling complaint.

[Paladin]

Darn, it sounds like it is time to buy your own place.

[Ray]

I feel your pain. Been there and done that. Most frustrating ! Lots of sweat equity in a property only to find every stand filled with the landowner's visiting for the holidays extended family on opening day. It did not get any better. Was sitting in a hidden and secluded tent-style ground blind on an island in a beaver swamp just to give the unwelcome hunters using my stands a wide berth when a truckload of duck hunters unexpectantly opened fire on some floating ducks in front of me. Miraculously I was unpierced by the large steel shot(s) but the blind's fabric was riddled with bb sized holes. No atheists in plastic tent full of holes I'll guarantee !

[GunnyMack]

Sorry to hear this, a conversation with the owner should be had, explain all of your blood sweat and tears you have provided over the years. If the owner doesn't see eye to eye then you have a hard decision to make... stay or go.

I was lucky enough to grow up on a friend's farm and when the family business was taken in a hostile take over they had to sell the farm. Someone else I knew was looking for exactly what the family had. The friends bought the farm and I still have permission to hunt there but it's just not the same...

[FLINT]

Darn, it sounds like it is time to buy your own place.

I would love nothing more to be able to buy my own land, but it has become too expensive around here. Impossible to buy acreage in this area. It has more than doubled in price in the last four years. I could aford pre-plandemic prices, but not post.

Sorry to hear this, a conversation with the owner should be had, explain all of your blood sweat and tears you have provided over the years. If the owner doesn't see eye to eye then you have a hard decision to make... stay or go.

I was lucky enough to grow up on a friend's farm and when the family business was taken in a hostile take over they had to sell the farm. Someone else I knew was looking for exactly what the family had. The friends bought the farm and I still have permission to hunt there but it's just not the same...

Yes, he totally recognizes how much I've helped over the years, I think he just doesn't realize the impact of the additonal hunter. Non-hunters don't understand.

and yes, you understand. it's just not the same. I'm glad your friends farm was bought by another person who wanted a farm and not a subdivision.

[FLINT]

I feel your pain. Been there and done that. Most frustrating ! Lots of sweat equity in a property only to find every stand filled with the landowner's visiting for the holidays extended family on opening day. It did not get any better. Was sitting in a hidden and secluded tent-style ground blind on an island in a beaver swamp just to give the unwelcome hunters using my stands a wide berth when a truckload of duck hunters unexpectantly opened fire on some floating ducks in front of me. Miraculously I was unpierced by the large steel shot(s) but the blind's fabric was riddled with bb sized holes. No atheists in plastic tent full of holes I'll guarantee !

dude, that's crazy! me and my dad had to dodge shot before on public land, that was scary.

[Molasses]

I can relate (it'd just sound like whining if I get going on it, so no details).

Flint, you have my sympathy and wishes for a good resolution.

[FLINT]

I can relate (it'd just sound like whining if I get going on it, so no details).

Flint, you have my sympathy and wishes for a good resolution.

Thanks! and sorry for your situation as well.

[Ray Newman]

Been thinking about this. Have the feeling that this will come down to two choices. Either you accept the other guy hunting on the property, or you take down your tree stands and game cameras and move on.

Also think that this situation-- if not resolved -- is going to fester and end up with some “bad blood” or obvious hostility between you and the other guy. From your explanation, I have the impression that unless he leaves you will only grow more disgruntled and upset.

Best discuss the situation with your friend who might understand and resolve the issue. Could be he is entirely unaware of what is going on and would see your side of the situation? Or, he can say “you hunted with another guy on the property before, so why not now?” During the conversation, mention the work you have done for him and what exactly is the other guy doing for him? Do you still do work? Has the other guy ever done anything for your friend? Even though your friend has health issues, gently approach the subject and if it upsets/bothers him, just drop it.

You are lucky a friend or two of the other hunter has not “tagged along” to hunt. My deceased brother had the old family in NY -- about 200 acres. He let a few friends hunt. Then "friends of the friends" started to bring their friends. They considered the farm “their” hunting grounds. My bother finally told them no more, do not come back.

I wish you luck.

[gcs]

Things change, constantly, If you can't afford to have your own then your stuck with the changes...You can adapt, or move on. Sorry but that's the reality. You were fortunate to have it for yourself so long.

[.45colt]

This has happened to Me more than once. people just take over . I would quietly pull My stuff and try to move on. Then if the landowner questions you about what's going on tell Him. Good Luck.

[Ray]

After reading further replies, I just realized/remembered that I have also been the unwelcomed annoyance that several different landowners have kindly invited to hunt. Especially when the kids were young and we needed a safer place to hunt than baby bush's and obummer's national forests.

Yes, it is a much more complicated and nuanced issue than at first thought.

[AJMD429]

.
For 20 or 30 years after my father passed away we would encounter trespassing hunters who would insist that they had permission to be on the property. When I asked who gave them permission, they would say his name, and I would ask then when did you last talk to him, and they would say "just a couple months ago".

I remember coming home from college hoping to pitch a tent and get some outside time, only to find that all of the good places to pitch a tent on our property already had people there, none of them had permission.

Long ago (and past the statute of limitations ) I learned from neighbors that if vehicles accidentally rolled into the river, or trees accidentally fell on them, or they somehow caught fire, or spontaneously flipped over under their roofs, the owners generally found other places to go the next time they wanted to trespass.

I left the more destructive approaches to my neighbors, who had more political connections and money to get out of trouble, (plus I didn't have a front end loader to tip over vehicles). Mostly I would just let the air out of the tires with a valve stem wrench and leave a note on their windshield.

Those are the kind of people we used to have to deal with just to get our own property back in our hands with some semblance of privacy and safety.

Now my son - with the wildlife management degree - is living in Montana, but has trail cams on our property and monitors the deer herd here. We have a select group of four or five people we allow to hunt but they all have to agree to park and designated areas and have a plaque that they have to have visible through their windshield. They also all have areas they have to stick to in terms of where they hunt, and there is a group text that they have to use and post on it whenever they are going to be hunting.

My son organizes all that even though I live here, but it makes things much better. If someone is parked on our property and doesn't have the ID in their window, I don't feel any qualms about having their vehicle towed. The fact that they each have certain territories and notify each other when they will be there, minimizes the risk of any accidents or hard feelings. In fact, sometimes it's nice to have someone hunting a different part of the property because they might stir the deer up and head them your way.

I think notifying the landowner, even if they have health issues, would be appropriate, and actually courteous, because they need to know the other people are taking advantage of them.

As far as buying property, our family was evicted (for being behind on rent) from the rental house we lived in when I was 5 years old after my father died, but he had just put a down payment on the 'farm' next to where he grew up, so we went there and managed to pay off the mortgage over the next 20 years. The tillable acreage was actually farmed by someone else and we split the costs and revenues; it only generated about $1,000 a year, but was a big help. I am forever thankful that my father made that decision right before he died and although we had to take out a loan on the property when ObamaCare destroyed primary care, we almost have it paid back down, and will probably put the land in some sort of trust so that nobody down the road makes the stupid decision to put it at risk again like I did.

[FLINT]

Hi all, thanks for the thoughtful comments and advice.

Yes, I was for sure very blessed to have access to this property for so long. It's just hard to lose something that has been so important in your life. I've hunted my whole life and it's so important to me. I don't want to get into all the details, but I've had a series of losses and misfortunes over the last 5 years, and so it's becoming hard to lose what little joys I have left.

This has happened to Me more than once. people just take over . I would quietly pull My stuff and try to move on. Then if the landowner questions you about what's going on tell Him. Good Luck.

Yes, this is what I've been temped to do since last year. I need to start looking for somewhere else to hunt more seriously.

Best discuss the situation with your friend who might understand and resolve the issue. Could be he is entirely unaware of what is going on and would see your side of the situation? Or, he can say “you hunted with another guy on the property before, so why not now?” During the conversation, mention the work you have done for him and what exactly is the other guy doing for him? Do you still do work? Has the other guy ever done anything for your friend? Even though your friend has health issues, gently approach the subject and if it upsets/bothers him, just drop it.

You are lucky a friend or two of the other hunter has not “tagged along” to hunt. My deceased brother had the old family in NY -- about 200 acres. He let a few friends hunt. Then "friends of the friends" started to bring their friends. They considered the farm “their” hunting grounds. My bother finally told them no more, do not come back.
I wish you luck.

After reading further replies, I just realized/remembered that I have also been the unwelcomed annoyance that several different landowners have kindly invited to hunt. Especially when the kids were young and we needed a safer place to hunt than baby bush's and obummer's national forests.

Yes, it is a much more complicated and nuanced issue than at first thought.

and yes, a couple things about this.

So, back early on, I did hunt with another guy who was a friend of mine and who the landowner also knew, but we would go hunt together. We would plan our hunts and I was just as happy when he got somthing, etc. Totally different situation. I don't know this new guy at all, and he is just setting up right in my main hunting area - more on this below.

Since my friend moved away, I've not asked to bring friends along, because I didn't want to overstep my welcome or do anything to take advantage or anything like that. I haven't even asked if my son could come out with me sometime even though my son has also helped with jobs on his property.

I also have been in the position of the "new guy" as a hunter on a property, but let me explain the difference. Several years ago, a friend mentioned that her parents had too many deer, etc, and I said I'd love to hunt. The parents already had a couple guys who had been hunting there for some years. the father showed me all around and showed me where the other guys hunted, so I voluntarily ONLY hunted on days that the other guys would not be there and I never went near their hunting stands and I used my climber to go set up as far away from their areas as possible, again, even though I also never hunted the same days as them. I went out of my way to minimally affect anyone else. I totally deferred to the previous hunters. Eventually I just quit hunting there. Kept hunting squirrels only for a couple more years since they didn't and never during deer season.

Now, THIS guy on the property I'm talking about now, has claimed a zone within sight of two of my existing stands. literally right between them, like 40-50 yards from each one. and whenever he comes out, I just have to go hunt somewhere else, even if the wind is wrong or whatever. This morning on my way in to my stand, I walked by a camera he just put up which was awesome and it flashed red as it took my picture, so on my way out I tried to go another way to avoid walking by the camera again, but ended up walking by another of his cameras. I have no idea how many cameras he's put up now, maybe just the two, but I'm just feeling less and less 'at home' now there.

In fact, sometimes it's nice to have someone hunting a different part of the property because they might stir the deer up and head them your way.

I think notifying the landowner, even if they have health issues, would be appropriate, and actually courteous, because they need to know the other people are taking advantage of them.

As far as buying property, our family was evicted (for being behind on rent) from the rental house we lived in when I was 5 years old after my father died, but he had just put a down payment on the 'farm' next to where he grew up, so we went there and managed to pay off the mortgage over the next 20 years. The tillable acreage was actually farmed by someone else and we split the costs and revenues; it only generated about $1,000 a year, but was a big help. I am forever thankful that my father made that decision right before he died and although we had to take out a loan on the property when ObamaCare destroyed primary care, we almost have it paid back down, and will probably put the land in some sort of trust so that nobody down the road makes the stupid decision to put it at risk again like I did.

yeah, the way this property is laid out, it's not quite that easy. the landowner's home is right in the middle and there is basically one way in and out. and most deer have to come through the area that the new guy has set up in so if he chases them somewhere, it will be to the neighbors property.

I'm really glad you were able to keep the land you grew up on. We lost my childhood property when my father died a few years ago. A land trust is a great idea.

[Ray]

One problem of tagging along as the guest of a trespass permitee, either verbal or written is that you are at their mercy in regards to the veracity of the assumed permission.

Think of the thousands of hunters who pay big $$$$$$ to outfitters. The client hunter is the one who will be arrested for trespass or for hunting over bait and the guide will make himself scarce when the blue lights come on. So it is when a buddy, brother-n-law, co-worker or neighbour invites you hunting.

I remember a farm we hunted for over a decade and a half. One morning I went to the site-built ladder stand on pre-dawn open-day gun season just like I had done for many years before. I heard the leaf crunching footsteps of our long-time family friend (the presumed trespass permitee) as he went on to his stand. There was no visible moon but the vicinity seemed eerily bright. Then a little lapdog began yapping and a car-door slammed and human voices were surprisingly near. I climbed down from the stand and cautiously traveled uphill to peer over a ridge that overlooked the farm's barn-lots and tractor sheds only to find a very new subdivision of large square-footage multilevel homes clinging to the hillside.

The next weekend I had to help care for a sick child instead of deer hunting. At about first light, a kid (20 something) name of Greene with the extra "E" slew a giant buck at the very stand-site I described above. Then all he'll broke loose. A neighborhood watch was mustered and guns were pointed and serious threats were made. Long story short, the man who originally gave "us" permission had been estranged from the landowner's daughter for many, many years. Our permission to trespass, even if in writing had not been valid for a long time and I personally as a guest of a guest of the landowner's then son-in-law had no clue. My absence from the scene was a blessing in disguise but reinforces the idea that an uneventful life is just a series of near-misses.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I’m so sorry to hear about your issues. Takes the fun out of hunting.

[stretch]

My former neighbor and I had a standing invitation to hunt on another neighbor's land.
All of us were friends. The landowning friend, now deceased, sold his acreage to a jack@$$ from New Jersey.
The new owner told us we could still hunt there, but we could only hunt bucks of 6 points or more, etc.. Game cameras,
bait set out, and so forth...

Kinda ruined it for us. Haven't hunted there in over a decade now.

-Stretch

[LeverGunner]

I am sorry that you've been uprooted. You didn't mention how much you know about this other guy other than he texts you when he's going to be there. Just that sorta indications that he might be courteous.

Perhaps he has no idea he's stepping on your toes?

Maybe he's got some other spots he'd share with you if you?

[LeverGunner]

Have you considered praying about the issue, and for the other guy? God can turn things around in a hurry if he's of a mind to.

[Eddie Southgate]

This is why I own my own property for hunting.

[Paladin]

I sold my farm in WV 5 years ago next to Stonewall Jackson resort and understand. I am currently back in WV (lifetime hunting license) and have shot two deer with permits for two more and a Black Bear. I saw a bear two days ago but did not get a shot. Normally I only hunt large game in Alaska as many other places are "DRAW" happy.
My first kill, a 172-pound button buck.

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[barbarossa]

You have my sympathy.I bought a 45acre property at a land tax and for the first few years or more had nothing but problems with it.A father ,son and grandson basically laid claim to the place and refused to believe I owned it and couple that with the fact the former owner who lost the land because he was a notorious scam artist was also saying he owned the place and gave one guy permission to cut firewood off of my land.Luckily I caught the guy before he started and after I showed him proof that the land was mine ,he couldn t get his backside off my land fast enough.I had to get the law involved to get rid of the other ones but eventually they got the message and left .As for the former landowner he s now in a rest home blowing spit bubbles so he s no longer a problem..
I have ,to say though after all drama it was worth it as it is 45acres that sits amongst a few farms so there is plenty of deer ,rabbits etc and now that I m retired it is my little piece of paradise

[FLINT]

I am sorry that you've been uprooted. You didn't mention how much you know about this other guy other than he texts you when he's going to be there. Just that sorta indications that he might be courteous.

Perhaps he has no idea he's stepping on your toes?

Maybe he's got some other spots he'd share with you if you?

I'm sure you are right. I'm sure he doesn't realize. I don't get the impression that he's an experienced hunter, though I think he's older than me.

I do need to pray about it, you are right.

I'm mostly grumpy and probably a little bitter honestly because me and my wife have worked hard our whole lives and everything just seems to work out poorly for us. I really believed in the american dream and that by now we'd be able to own our own land, but it just seems that the rug keeps getting pulled out from under us. or like Charlie brown every time he tries to kick the football. So, I got attached to property that doesn't belong to me and I'm having a hard time adjusting to yet another disappointment. Honestly, I am thankful for all the hunting I've been able to do there and realize that its been a blessing.

So, I guess the bigger problem and what I'm most upset about is the fact that my wife and I both have advanced degrees and make decent money and yet, still can't afford land. I've literally been working since I was 13 and have worked hard my whole life. If the last four years never happened we'd probably be in good shape to own a nice property right now. Six acres in the county just sold for $400K. can you believe that? Just a field. Six acre field. the cheapest land you can find anywhere in the county is 20K/acre, and on up to 100k an acre. and that's for land, not housing plots. like acreage.

[LeverGunner]

I know this isn't an ideal answer, but have you considered changing spots... land can still be had much cheaper over here. It's pretty common for land to be in the 10,000-20,000/acre range or less. About an hours commute to Louisville, if big city work is your thing, about 30 minutes to one of the smaller cities like Elizabethtown 42701.

If you did decide to go that route, I'd be glad to help in any way I can.

[Streetstar]

when a truckload of duck hunters unexpectantly opened fire on some floating ducks in front of me.

zero ethics

[Crazy Horse]

I

the cheapest land you can find anywhere in the county is 20K/acre, and on up to 100k an acre. and that's for land, not housing plots. like acreage.

P

Holy smoke! That is outrageous for land!

[LeverGunner]

Reading this helps me realize I sure am thankful for what I have. I have 18 acres, and while it's not a lot or perfect for hunting or shooting, it sure beats not having anything at all. I sometimes have an attitude of "I wish the neighbors weren't so close" But it could be so much worse.

[FLINT]

Reading this helps me realize I sure am thankful for what I have. I have 18 acres, and while it's not a lot or perfect for hunting or shooting, it sure beats not having anything at all. I sometimes have an attitude of "I wish the neighbors weren't so close" But it could be so much worse.

Thanks for the very kind offer, but we have to stay in this area. My son has special needs and all of his programs and school are here. Trust me, I've thought about it plenty.

yes, owning 18 acres sounds amazing. we are stuck renting in a neighborhood, but are super fortunate that our landlady hasn't raised our rent in the 7 years we've been here. Her houses are currently renting for 2250+ per month now. We pay for all repairs and maintenace! We don't bother her with anything!!! Paying an occasional $500 for something is better than paying an extra $600 every month!!

[LeverGunner]

I can understand not wanting to uproot for those reasons.

That's some high rent. Around here $1200+ rent is considered high. I've heard of people having very nice large houses in the $1200-$1500 range. A normal house is normally $800ish. Mortgages for 20-30 acre farms are in the $800-$1200 range.

[FLINT]

That's insane. Maybe we do need to move there!!