Miruko 1892 vertical stringing

[fourbore]

My first post was to ask for 32-20 load advise which was a great help. I have now fired the gun with mild factory ammo using lead bullets and my own jacketed bullets loaded with H110. I had not notice the stringing with the mild factory ammo but a review of all my old targets show that is happening with both the light factory loads and my heavier hand loads. I think I am one or two days away from completing a Marbles tang sight install. And then ready to really do some more loading, debug and shooting in general.

The amount of stringing I am see is 3" MIN at 50 yards with any 5 shot string. The handloads average less than 1 inch wide. It was not obvious before but it shows up pretty dramatic with my handloads.

I did some reading here and elsewhere and one area to look at is the magazine tube. That is held on with a roll pin in a band up near the front. There is also a screw that holds the end cap that threads into the end cup and has a tit that sets into the barrel. I removed the roll pin and screw and the tube is free. I put the front cap screw back and the magazine is secure but not tight. Because the tube was free, I think I wasted my time but now wondering if there is any need ever put the roll pin back?

And the real question can someone give a little guidance on what should be 1st, 2nd, 3rd area to check or variable to try. Probably not the ammo. Could be. Keeping the tube loose for now.

[LeverGunner]

Interesting. You didn't say whether or not you shot your groups by loading the magazine or single shot. If it's the former, I'd try the latter as my next step.

Are you holding the gun when firing groups or resting off a sandbags/rest? Holding the gun and resting your hand will help.

[GunnyMack]

It's proven that a free floating barrel shoots better than a barrel that has a contact point somewhere in the barrel channel. Applies more to 1 piece stocks.
while 2 piece stocks are a different critter.
Take the magazine tube off the gun, shoot a group. Then install the tube and the screw, shoot a group. Then install the roll pin and shoot another group. You'll see point of impact changes most likely.
Being a lever it will never be a bench rest gun so I would sight it in for a cold bore zero.

On a different note, my Henry 41 mag I relieved the forend cap where it could contact the barrel, simple file work. I left the hanger alone knowing that it has a job to do. It will shoot 1 hole groups at 50 if I don't get too jerky on the trigger!

[fourbore]

I use a Caldwell front rest, the type with an elevation screw and a yellow leather bag for the butt. Forarm on the rest. But I was probably sloppy in my hold becasue the gun recoil so little. I will be on my best behavior next time.

I struggle with iron sights and do suspect I am half the problem. I will stop making excuses when I have the Marbles setup. I hope I am not wasting your time along with mine but this seems worse than my usual efforts. Even with 6 oclock hold. I shot the factory ammo with 5 in the tube and ideal weather. The handloads were single loaded on a damp drizzle day that I almost put off shooting. Less than ideal. I packed up at one point when the paper targets got too wet. Then it cleared up and I unloaded again. I had the only bench at the club with no roof.

I like the idea, shoot no tube at all.

I guess the foram situation would be 3rd down the list. I am nervous to mess with that on such a beauty of a gun. I did read something about that someplace and must have conveniently forgot. Note to myself here.

[GunnyMack]

You are not wasting our time or your own. You are seeking help and we can and will try to help. That's how I found this forum.

Next time you are out to shoot groups do everything exactly the same. Hold the gun the same, shoot single or from the mag. Just do it the same each time.

[LeverGunner]

Agreed, you're certainly not wasting our time or your time.

Honestly, I'd say part of your problem is trying to shoot it like a bolt gun coupled with not holding it the same each time. I suggest, using the rest, but to support your hand holding the rifle. Resting your elbow on the bag and hold the butt against your shoulder like if you were standing.

I would load the rifle with 5, shoot it like this and see how it does.

Admitting you're not the best with iron sights is a good start. Consider not just the sights, but the target. If you are having a hard time seeing the target, you won't be able to shoot well. For me, what works the best so far (I am still experimenting) is a fluorescent green target on a plain cardboard backer.

[Grizz]

this might help >>> sneak up on that target. muzzle blast distance is good. then see what happens with several rounds.
not kidding - - -
.
i personally prefer vertical stringing to horizontal stringing. it's much more conducive to dropped right there game shots.

but getting close is helpful. shoot something else at the same distance as a check. an accurate .22 is a pretty good warm up. i usually shoot the ruger auto before the center-fire arms . . .

grizz

[GunnyMack]

With iron sights I've come to like a sheet of cardboard, then put a cross on it. You want to hold where the vertical and horizontal lines intersect. Irons on a black bull is just a waste of ammo. Heck I don't even use a printed target, much preferring cardboard with either a square of duct tapt, magic marker square or just pasters to shoot at.

[samsi]

When shooting from the bench I've found that both leverguns and lightweight bolt actions with thin barrels will group better if the front bag is further back. Somewhere around the last third of the forearm ahead of the receiver seems to be the sweet spot for 92's and 94's - in carbine length anyhow.

[LeverGunner]

this might help >>> sneak up on that target. muzzle blast distance is good. then see what happens with several rounds.
not kidding - - -
.
i personally prefer vertical stringing to horizontal stringing. it's much more conducive to dropped right there game shots.

but getting close is helpful. shoot something else at the same distance as a check. an accurate .22 is a pretty good warm up. i usually shoot the ruger auto before the center-fire arms . . .

grizz

I agree, I'd see what she did at 25 yards. If there is no stringing, then move out.

[jeepnik]

You mentioned shooting strings and sighting with a cold bore. Are you letting the barrel cool between the shots of your strings. I've had vertical strings in on every thin barreled rifle I have had if I didn't let the barrel cool ( in the shade if possible) between shots. Nature of the beast I guess.

I pretty much zero all my rifles on a cold bore. Just the way dad taught me to do it.

[Grizz]

You mentioned shooting strings and sighting with a cold bore. Are you letting the barrel cool between the shots of your strings. I've had vertical strings in on every thin barreled rifle I have had if I didn't let the barrel cool ( in the shade if possible) between shots. Nature of the beast I guess.

I pretty much zero all my rifles on a cold bore. Just the way dad taught me to do it.

yeah, my Dad did the same thing too.

it is something i do more with handguns. not all the shots are in order in the vertical plane when i string them. i think because i concentrate on getting the windage right every shot, THEN i can take a shot from a skiff and be very confident of the result. but it also applies to open site rifle shots, I concentrate on controlling the windage.

[OldWin]

A bead front sight can do this too. Especially if it's a spherical beat. Changing light will shift your POI.
A post is much preferred. At the very least, a flat faced bead.

[Grizz]

A bead front sight can do this too. Especially if it's a spherical beat. Changing light will shift your POI.
A post is much preferred. At the very least, a flat faced bead.

i put a superfine bead on the SBH, and didn't notice when the brass bit went awol. I told people who shot it "the bead is the bullet", everyone could hit well with it.

[LeverGunner]

The sights have to work for your eyes. I have a harder time with bead sights than I do a flat top sight. I can shoot a bead okay though. I have to have enough light on the side of the bead, and I prefer a 1/16" bead over the 3/32 size.

I don't know what size/type of bead you have on your rifle, my my Miroku made Wincehster 1892 has a Marbles 1/16 brass bead and it is okay for me with their rear sight.

My 70s vintage Winchester 94 though had a rear sight that I could not get along with. I installed a Marbles No. 67 long tang semi-buckhorn. The elevator has a good notch and is flat at the top, which helps me. I reversed the white diamond as it caused my eyes to strain.

[fourbore]

I got the Marbles tang site mounted. That was quite an adventure. Now it is done and looks good and more important, I can see.

Reading all the suggestions and will try out all or most the suggestions in one form or another. For now, I am taking a bit of a breather to fondle the rifle. More than a little relieved I did not mess anything up.

Almost forgot, this rifle has the Marble's front sight with a fine brass bead.

[fourbore]

Happy Days

I fired a 4 shot group at 25 yards with about 1/2 (corrected 1/2) inch vertical spread !! Oh boy. The horizontal was an inch, but I dont care. I can work with this. No vertical component. I changed a lot of things.

I reduce the charge from 15 to 13.5 H110 because it was claer I need to full length resize. Thinking case life and why push it right now. I can go up from here but not a priority. More likely later on try my old standby 4227 or the fancy new Lil'Gun.

I have the magazine tube removed. That will be the next experiment. I guess it has to go back, no matter what. I am thrilled not to be worried about relieving the forearm.

I set the gun with the receiver on the rest and held the forearm and shouldered the butt end. As suggested. It was steady enough for 25 yards.

I dumped the 6 oclock hold for now and centered the bead on the target. But really, I can see now and its a big difference with a tang sight.

Last, I changed from Lee crimp to Hornady roll crimp. That was an accident I bumped the die (more accurate to say forgot my spacer) and what a nice round came out! So I did all 5 that way. The first shot was cold at 12 yds to verify my zero. The next 4 at 25 for group.

[LeverGunner]

Glad you've got a good start at figuring it out.