Asking Paco Kelly loading H110 in 32-20

[fourbore]

Hi. New guy here with a question. Imagine that!

I visited a sight with 32-20 loads listed by Paco Kelly. Not sure as I type if that was linked from this site, but same name. I certainly welcome any advise from anyone who can help. Trying to use H110 & components listed below.

I am planning to load 32-20 for a Miruko/Wichester 1892.
I purchased 100 Starline brass and 200 Hornady 85gr XTP.
My goal is to load to the full potential of this gun without pushing any limits or buying any more expensive IMR powders.

This was an exciting find at the PK site:
Level three gun ( I assume a new 1892 is level 3)
H110 16gr 90gr jacketed 2300 fps 37,000 psi Excellent.
I am thinking 15 gr and might get 2200 or close to it.

Now my problem, the site also shows
Strong Level 2 load:
H110 17gr 90 jacketed1870 fps 23,500 psi Not great.
That is more powder with 13000 psi LOWER and 400 fps slower.

One of these has to be wrong. Can anyone advise? Paco?

I want to use H110 for price and past experience in other ctgs.
I would also plan on CCI magnum primers.
I dont see primers mentioned.

[JBowen]

Welcome! Here is what I come up with on Paco's article on this site. It list the pressures in C.U.P. not PSI. They don't interchange. This is for the CLASS 3 late manufacture guns like yours.
H110/ 16 gr
90 gr jacketed

Hguns 1790 fps
Rifles 2300 fps

35,200 cup



WW296/15.5 gr
110gr jacketed

Hguns 1660 fps
Rifles 2040 fps

37,000 cup



H110/14.5 gr
110 gr jacketed

Hguns 1600 fps
Rifles 1910 fps

33,000 cup

EDIT-- I went back and looked again and seen the 17 grains list in the level 2 chart. It must be a typo. If it was me I would not go over the 16 grain of H110/296.
In my opinion, the gun is plenty strong, but those thin brass cases may not be and then again, I don't have nowhere near the experience of Mr. Paco.

JBowen

[earlmck]

And If you haven't laid in your powder supply yet, get Lil' Gun instead of H110. It'll do exactly the same things as H110 at the high end with the same charges, but when you want a really pleasant tin can plinking load you can drop down to 9 grains or so of Lil' Gun and have a wonderful performing mild load.

I don't know why Lil' Gun is so wonderful in light loads but it is. Much much thanks to jnyork for clueing me in to it the low-end use of this magnificent stuff.

[fourbore]

Thank you both. I will ignore the level 2 info and plan on trying 15gr +/- H110 with 85 gr. Maybe Paco can say more later?

I already have 2lbs H110 and 4k CCI 550 small magnum pistol primers. Reasonable primer choice? The primers were a deal from an estate. This seems a good opportunity to use them. H110 is ball powder so seems appropriate to use a magnum primer and not going to try and drastically reduced loads. I will assume I am plenty safe to mess with 14 to 16gr. I am lucky to have lots of primers, I have CCI 400 if it is a better choice . I have some of every size and power level. My preCovid hoarding payed off.

Interesting about LIl'Gun. I will consider that later on if/when. This is not the first recommendation I heard or read. It is another fancy new ball powder. The properties of modern ball must have changed.

I am feeling like I landed on 32-20 central

[Ray]

Speer T/C Contender data. Very close to "strong action" data but o.a.l. may be too long for levergun.

Screenshot_20241030-064618_kindlephoto-279207474.png

Screenshot_20241030-064618_kindlephoto-279225526.png

Screenshot_20241030-064650_kindlephoto-279154809.png

[vancelw]

The Hornaday reloading manuals have data on .32 WCF HV loads. Which is strange, because Hornaday is usually very conservative.

[fourbore]

I have the Hornady manual. They dont show H110 but do have 4227. Those two are close enough that 15gr to 16gr for H110 is a reasonable max to extrapolate from the 4227 data. Or more important for me, it validates the information provided here. I am trying to wean myself off any IMR powders. I have 4227 but I am using that for the rounds I am loading with it.

I have a Speer Manual, it is either to old or I looked in the wrong section or not for light bullets. I forget already. I see in the above post, Speer used small pistol primers, 500. I think another source showed small rifle, 400. I am still planning to use small magnums 550 unless I get a solid caution against.

[vancelw]

The only other manual I have that lists HV loads is the Accurate #2...and it only lists AA powders.
Those loads are not as zippy as the Hornady loads.

[earlmck]

One of the grandsons has been shooting my 32/20 (that I acquired here from fellow Levergunner Tycer) at our monthly quarter-bore shoot (we let 32/20's pretend to be 25/20's around these parts). I just looked at his notes and he has been loading 8.5 grains of the Lil' Gun behind a 110 grain Ranch Dog cast bullet for 1485 fps with single-digit standard deviation (which teensy SD is the beauty of Lil' Gun in these light loads). We shoot to 300 yards at these shoots but the targets are pretty good sized (a 3-foot wide "buffalo" at the 300 yard berm). He hasn't won our match yet but I can say it is pretty dang deadly on tin cans in his hands.

[marlinman93]

Without judging anyone, I never saw a need to push the .32-20 beyond 1500 fps. Even while making up loads for my .32-20 rifles to shoot 500 yd. dingers I never loaded faster than 1500 fps.

[vancelw]

Without judging anyone, I never saw a need to push the .32-20 beyond 1500 fps. Even while making up loads for my .32-20 rifles to shoot 500 yd. dingers I never loaded faster than 1500 fps.

Pushing the appropriate firearms keeps you from being tempted to buy the inferior. 327 Federal.

[Sixgun]

I’ve been loading the 32-20 for a half century plus one year out of dozens or original pre war guns, some of which could handle the strong loads……..like MM says, loading 32-20’s above 1500 fps makes as much sense as hiring Kamala Harris to be an English professor.

Your forgetting two major problems that come with what your talking about……a lever action that “gives” and a weak case which will result in case head separations or at the very least, case life at 2 loadings. —-006

[fourbore]

So why hot load 32-20? My thoughts. I did not buy this gun with a desire to own a 32-20. I liked the features and finish of this particular limited Miruko. It is was offered at a big discount due to the caliber. In 44-40 this would have been sold quick for $400 higher easy. I got a deal, but that saving will get used up fast in new loading supplies. I do enjoy the process, so its all good.

I like to hunt and I think with the right load I can exceed the 22mag while not approaching 30-30 or 44 mag power. I like dramatic overkill and in a racoon or porcupine this gun might do that. I have shot this size game with 32H&R revolver and it got dead ok, but not blow all to heck dead. I think a 327 or 357 rifle would give me that bit of overkill I appreciate. I dont have any 357 or 327 rifle, I have this.

I assume if this 1892 will handle 327, 357 and 44 mag it would be fine with 32-20 at the same pressure levels and not be stretching. If the case life suffers then I can cut back. Or develop two loads. I now have 150 available cases, for me that is a lot of brass. My hunting might be 2 shots in a good day out. At the club I may blow of 10 rounds. I am not a high volume, shoot-em-up kind of guy.

If all goes very well,I may try and mount an MVA tang site. Delete the safety and drill & tap a hole threw the "S" under the safety button. Maybe, if I shoot enough to justify the upgrade. I do know about the Marbles option. Not for this.

I hope this does not come across as an argument. I came here for help and will consider all the input I can get.

[Sixgun]

OK….go ahead …it’s your rifle……..I would liken it having a 600 h.p. LS6 Chevy big block and keep it running at 7,000 r.p.m.’s. It will handle it but the best way is to do it once in a while…….experiment……..measure the new cases……load one with 5 hrs. of Unique and the other with a small rifle primer and a top load of H110 or 2400…….shoot them and then measure…….full length resize and do it again…..measure….

You’ll see what I’m talking about….you won’t likely get to a third loading with the heavily loaded one….the head will come out with the extractor with the case stuck in your chamber which you can remove with a brass brush….maybe……I’ve had a few “welded” to the chamber wall of various guns.

You’re obviously a young man……I used to do the same……that’s OK………I have a Winchester LoWall (original) mounted with a 36” MVA scope and with 4 grains of 231 will stay inside of an 1 and 1/2” at 150 meters……..a shooter is really not accomplishing anything by overloading a tame cartridge……

[JimT]

Fourbore ... Paco is a long-time friend of mine and is now in his mid-80's. He rarely gets on the internet these days. The last couple years he has had some serious health issues but has come through those. I visit him whenever I travel to Arizona and keep in touch with him. A lot of the articles on the Leverguns.Com website were written in the 1990's and early 2000's. Some came off the old Sixgunner.Com website that was in the 1990's.

I have a piece on Leverguns listing loads I used in my 1894CL Marlin .32-20. If you haven't seen it and are interested, use this link. I list the heavy loads I used as well as the lights ones.

https://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/1894cl.htm

And - Welcome to the Forum! There are some very knowledgeable people on this Forum when it comes to leverguns.

[fourbore]

Jim,
I will give that a read, thank you.

Sixgun,

As for being young. I wish. In fact, will be away from the computer for 24hrs getting some medical attention. I have everything needed to load and if all goes well, I will be back at my bench Saturday. I have both new brass and once fired factory brass. Hornady dies and a Lee crimper.

I am curios what is up with the 32-20. The 30-30 is rimmed and bottle neck and runs higher pressures than we are considering here. Thicker brass? The 327 is high pressure but then straight wall. How about I set the die as not to fully size and mostly just work the neck? Like bolt action ammo.

[marlinman93]

The .32-20 with the right bullet will kill game you mentioned easily. And with a hollow point bullet at 1500 fps will do plenty of damage if that's your goal. Dead is dead to me, and if I wanted to blow up small game I'll use my .17 HMR or .22-250 instead.
I shoot pretty strong Rolling Blocks and Remington Hepburn rifles in .32-20, so could easily push them a lot faster than I do. But since it doesn't really change how well I can hit at 500 yds. it's just a waste of powder for my shooting.

[JimT]

I am curios what is up with the 32-20. The 30-30 is rimmed and bottle neck and runs higher pressures than we are considering here. Thicker brass? The 327 is high pressure but then straight wall. How about I set the die as not to fully size and mostly just work the neck? Like bolt action ammo.

Thin brass ... easy to crumple if not aligned with the dies properly ... can be bent with finger pressure .. plus the tolerances on some guns vs. the sizes of the dies worked the brass extra and on thin brass that will wreck them quicker.

I used handloads that ran 2000 fps out of the Marlin levergun and never pulled a case head off ... but I never reloaded those particular cases more than 3 times. I killed deer, Javelina, and one huge Great Dane that was chasing the cows with my .32-20 and some of the heavier loads. It worked just fine. But the brass is weak.

[vancelw]

I have the Hornady manual. They dont show H110 but do have 4227. Those two are close enough that 15gr to 16gr for H110 is a reasonable max to extrapolate from the 4227 data.

The Hornaday 10th edition lists H110.
Send me an email and I'll send you a screen shot (won't post it here since it's copyright material)

32 WCF HV loads exceed 327. Brass is cheap. Life is short.
Do what you want with your rifle and don't listen to the naysayers. I've been loading HV for years. But I use it in my modern 92s and Blackhawk, very strong guns.
I don't use HV for punching holes in paper and I'm not looking for cloverleaf accuracy. I'm looking for humanely killed game.

[earlmck]

I have a piece on Leverguns listing loads I used in my 1894CL Marlin .32-20. If you haven't seen it and are interested, use this link. I list the heavy loads I used as well as the lights ones.

https://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/1894cl.htm

Those are some useful looking loads Jim. Thanks!

And dang -- I'd never have thought of 3031 for a "mouse phart" load. Interesting!

[Sixgun]

Learn how to set your FLS die for your particular gun so you do not create excessive headspace……every gun is different……proper sizing will extend the life of your brass. There are ways around that will be helpful to the longevity of your brass but that’s another lesson. You appear to be new on this cartridge and when you’re new, problems can arise very quick but can be overcome with experienced techniques.

Remember, companies build rifles according to SAAMI specs and the 32-20 is a very low pressure cartridge so gun companies will not put the same care on fitting on a common low pressure cartridge than they will on say, a 338 Lapua mag…..Sizing the brass correctly will make the difference between having fun or having aggravation…..

Then you can shoot until the cows come home and if you know anything about cows, once they cross the fence, they don’t come home.

[marlinman93]

I love the .32-20 WCF and picked up 1400 new Starline cases yesterday from a friend whose going away from it for benchrest matches. Said his CPA single shot just doesn't shoot consistently tiny groups, so he's switching to .32-40 instead.
I have plenty of brass, but his price worked out to under .25 cents each so I'll keep about 400 pcs. and share the rest with friends.

[Ray]

I wholeheartedly concur with earl re. the article's "quiet" loads.....

#3118 4.8 gr. 3031 432 fps

I believe that one would/will penetrate much more than expected.

[JimT]

I wholeheartedly concur with earl re. the article's "quiet" loads.....

#3118 4.8 gr. 3031 432 fps

I believe that one would/will penetrate much more than expected.

It will shoot through a cat nicely.

[fourbore]

I am back and just caught up on the posts and again like to thank all who helped out.

I loaded 10 rounds and shot two targets today. All with 14.5gr H110, 5 with once fired brass that I neck sized and 5 with new brass that I did not size at all.

My bad luck was a busy Saturday at the club and light misty rain. I got the last bench. The only one out in the weather. All the ammo cycled and shot fine. Neck sizing was ok. Obviously a nice step upin power from the Black Hills factory loads. It is hitting higher or gun was jumping on the bags. I think I am good for now. It is a start. I will load some more next week. Might try some off hand shooting at the 100 yrd steel. Plus get the sight lowered some.

I maybe in a bit of a catch 22 now. I was hoping to verify the accuracy before upgrading the sights. But I dont seem to be able to shoot very well without an aperture. I though MVA instead of Marbles but I will do some measuring and figuring today. If the Browning 92 Marbles will fit I may go that route and those can always get moved to my B92. Or maybe an 1873 Marbles can be fitted. I have one I can look at. Or call MVA next week. No rush. It will require drilling a hole. I think I got to do it.

[earlmck]

I don't want to worry you fourbore but if you have a nice visible bull and take a careful 6-o'clock hold your groups with the open sights will be about the same as you will get with the aperture. You may well get well-aimed shots off quicker with the aperture but your groups off sand bags aren't going to be appreciably better. If you didn't like the groups you got with those opens you may need to try some different loads.

[fourbore]

I hesitated to say exactly how the shooting went due to my rush to shoot and get home. Under ideal conditions last time out, I got got a round 5 shot 3" group at 50 yards with Black Hills low power lead bullets ammo. Disappointing. Today with jacketed reloads, I shot the two 5 shot groups at 50 and both were 1" horizontal which was good but 3" tall which was not. But, today was wet. Lining up the horizontal is a lot easier than the elevation with the buckhorns. On the ride home, I realize the gun was jumping a bit and my hold was loose. Worried yes a little. Not too much. This is the hobby and to be continued. If it was easy every time, where is the fun in that?

I got impatient and pulled the safety off the gun and took measurements. It seems the Marbles Winchester 71 long tang site will cover the safety slot and use the tang screw hole. The front hole will line up in the recess where the safety slid forward. A little mix & match on the screw sets and I should be home free. It will be very close. Some risk. I got the parts in my Buffalo Arms shopping cart ready to check out. So much for waiting.

[Sixgun]

Just stick a Marbles tang sight or whatever on it………you don’t have to drill the tang………just use the stock bolt, clean and degrease real well and epoxy the front of the base to the tang……it will hold……remember, while your shooting may be up to 100 yards, it’s nice to have the option to go much further by having it sighted for point blank range at 50 yards with the stem down, or nearly down.

If you like the rifle and plan on shooting it a lot don’t play around…..get it sighted real good…….i never saw a need to go over 5.5 of Unique with a 115 Lyman gas check sized .313 for a bit over 1400.

My favorite 32-20…Winchester Low Wall special order with a half rd/oct barrel…..this will do 1/2” at 50 or MOA out to 200.

[fourbore]

I would like a low wall someday. Open minded to just about any caliber or configuration, new or old Winchester or Uberti if they did one.