Moderna booster reaction

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Bill in Oregon
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Moderna booster reaction

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Had my booster yesterday and woke up this morning aching in about every nook and cranny. It's not that bad, but I do feel pretty beat up. Anyone else had this reaction to Moderna No. 3?
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by Tycer »

Yep. You are not alone.

https://www.c19vaxreactions.com/
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

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I haven't drank the kool-aid yet... still entertaining the notion that this is the land of the free...
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by Bill in Oregon »

It is supposed to subside in 24-48 hours, according to others who have had the Moderna booster.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by crs »

What Griff said +1

And + my Doc directions!

And +Ivermectin.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by Mike Armstrong »

On all three Moderna shots, I couldn't even find the injection sites (Maybe UNDER the Bandaids ????). My wife was extra cranky after the second shot. (Or maybe she was reacting to ME ???).
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I've only had the two, but both made me sick the next day.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by .45colt »

I got the J&J single shot in early June. no booster yet. that being said My 38 Year old Son got the Covid three weeks ago and I shudder to think what would happen to Me at My age if I got it. The first week He was bedridden , two weeks off of work and lost more than 20lb. I'm All for choice for anyone. but I saw first hand how bad it can be and He is still young.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

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.45colt wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:49 am
I got the J&J single shot in early June. no booster yet. that being said My 38 Year old Son got the Covid three weeks ago and I shudder to think what would happen to Me at My age if I got it. The first week He was bedridden , two weeks off of work and lost more than 20lb. I'm All for choice for anyone. but I saw first hand how bad it can be and He is still young.
My mid 40's healthy son in law got forced to take the vaccine in order to start his new job a month ago. He decided to go for the J&J being just one shot. Next day he was throwing up, and stuff coming out both ends of his body. Couldn't eat, and even water wouldn't stay down. Over the last 4 weeks he's been to emergency 4 times to get IV's to rehydrate him, and he's lost almost 20 lbs. he couldn't afford to lose!
Still hasn't been able to start the new job, and the company owner is reconsidering their mandate to require aall employees to get vaccinated as they're now worried they might get sued if others have ongoing bad reactions to something they required them to get.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by Blaine »

Two Pfizer jabs....no problems.
I'm also very sure I've had "IT" and with that supposed natural immunity and the jabs, I should be ok. Or, at least, subject to kinder/gentler sickness.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

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.45colt
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by .45colt »

Marlinman93 wrote :"My mid 40's healthy son in law got forced to take the vaccine in order to start his new job a month ago. He decided to go for the J&J being just one shot. Next day he was throwing up, and stuff coming out both ends of his body. Couldn't eat, and even water wouldn't stay down. Over the last 4 weeks he's been to emergency 4 times to get IV's to rehydrate him, and he's lost almost 20 lbs. he couldn't afford to lose!
Still hasn't been able to start the new job, and the company owner is reconsidering their mandate to require all employees to get vaccinated as they're now worried they might get sued if others have ongoing bad reactions to something they required them to get."
Sorry to hear this...it just shows how all of this affects people differently. I had a sore arm for 1 day, My wife got the same and her arm hurt for 3 days. I hope You Son in Law gets better soon.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by jdad »

The wife, son, and I all got the J&J. No adverse reactions for any of us, but for a sore shoulder and a little lethargy (me), for a day. We want to travel since we're both going to be retiring, so it was needed.

My Operations Manager is my age and didn't get the vax, tested positive Sunday, and he's close to being on his death bed right now. He also doesn't think he needs the Shingrex shot because no-one in his family every had shingles.

You have less than a 1% chance of dying from the virus and about the same from the vax. They can both have long term negative effects on your health. Every choice we make in life has risks. We should all have the freedom to decide.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Yep, similar to my reaction with the 2nd Moderna. 3rd felt like a tetanus shot on steroids. Every joint hurt like heck! Only lasted a couple days though.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by AJMD429 »

All-cause mortality is higher in vaccine recipients, so with other equal (before delta) or better (now) preventatives, I see little reason to get today's vaccines(s). Most people do ok, but so do most people who play Russian roulette.

I guess after talking to a few young healthy patients who stroked or developed other permanent effects from the vaccines, or to the next of kin of folks who died after vaccination, I just can't justify the risk, especially as long as we keep giving a vaccine that only generates antibodies to the virus variant that is no longer around. :roll:

Then when you see how the 'news' media so actively censors any reporting of these side effects, it starts to smell fishy. Now we have an 'emergency' because so many 5-11 year olds are dropping in the streets due to CoVid. I'd let my 9 year old kid sit on the lap of someone with CoVid (other than Joe Biden or Michael Jackson) without fear. To those who think that's crazy then I hope they never let their kid play sports; far more risk from that, or any number of other things; the government just hasn't tried to manipulate parents into irrational panic over those other things (yet).

So much of the vaccine data is shoddy and/or misrepresented that it is easy to start doubting if you actually read the studies.

>>> https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635

The combined effects of propaganda-induced fear, censorship of anything but the 'narrative', peer-pressure, and threats of job-loss via government coercion seem to be the main reason any of the vaccines are sought after. The actual supporting data are tenuous at best.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by marlinman93 »

.45colt wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:33 pm

Sorry to hear this...it just shows how all of this affects people differently. I had a sore arm for 1 day, My wife got the same and her arm hurt for 3 days. I hope You Son in Law gets better soon.
Thanks! We hope he gets over this without long term issues.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by hfcable »

i am 74 and had little reaction to my 3rd pfizer injection
my wife had minor headache and nothing more

as for the statement that i have heard a lot of times that:

“ You have less than a 1% chance of dying from the virus and about the same from the vax. “ such statements frequently circulate but are extremely innaccurate. i am an MD and i keep up with the numbers . the death rate for covid was 1.4% but is falling now . the death rate for the vaccine in the US stands at 0.0018 % and is quite similar in the rest of the world .

take it or don’t take it . but base your decision on accurate information .

not only is the death rate for covid vs vax greatly higher , there many many more who live thru covid but have severe persistent lung symptoms and terrible damage visible on the ct scans of their lungs. this is a reality i have personally seen daily and some of these are young people

so yes, make your personal choice but be sure it is an informed choice not based on misinformation
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

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We learned in the 60's to beware of the government saying "I am only here to help you."
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

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I won't take the 3rd shot of Moderna. I took the first 2 shots to allow me travel to Ukraine, in all honesty. It was harder to travel back INTO the USA then it was to leave.

All these mandates to fire people, I would be betraying them in their right to refuse the vaccine, and just test them every week, which we do in my school district.

I guess I am confused about the focus of having a vaccine that doesn't work 50% of the time with the Delta variant with the Moderna vaccine. It comes as no surprise that the mandate should be focused upon actual test results about COVID, and less about the vaccine. This admin is so out of touch with reality.

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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by earlmck »

Goldangit guys... the conspiracy of Big Pharma with our FDA, CDC, NIH to suppress the use of Hydroxychloroquine or Ivermectin for early treatment of Covid... that has to be the biggest scandal of the decade. But you don't have to accept their veto of your health. It'll take a little work but at least lay in a supply of Ivermectin. the FLCCC web site has guidelines for prevention and for treatment and links to find your Ivermectin. I've been using the horse stuff from the feed store in the "Prevent" protocol but have a batch of the 12mg people pills coming from India thanks to links found on the FLCCC site (lots of folks have been scared off of the vet stuff by the same fine folks that want to keep the docs from prescribing it). Then if you or anybody important to you comes down with the dang Covid get them going on the Ivermectin protocols. Too many people have bad effects from either the virus or the shot so early treatment is a really good idea to reduce the viral load and the amount of those little spike proteins that seem to be messin' with the folks.

Data from the UK where they are a ways ahead of us vaccine-wise shows that the jab is not keeping people from getting Covid, so Bill, you too should lay in enough Ivermectin to hit back against the crud if it "breaks through" your booster.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Fellas, feeling much better today. The booster reaction lasted about 24 hours with me.
The virus hit home this past week among the staff at the Otero County shooting range where I work part time. There are only five of us. The range supervisor's son was diagnosed with Covid, and gave it his dad, who is unvaccinated. He lost his sense of smell yesterday. Another range worker who was fully vaccinated contracted a breakthrough case, and was hospitalized and given the monoclonal antibody infusion. That worked so well that he has been released. (This range worker has a compromised immune system, kidney disease and is a severe diabetic.) The unvaccinated range master and his wife have contracted something -- he thinks it is just a cold, but a covid test will tell. So three of the five of us are out with covid or some other infection leaving two of us to run the range this weekend -- both of us 68 and fully vaccinated.
Folks can say what they think about the vaccine, but I am glad to have gotten it and wish everyone on staff would have gotten it, too.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

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Bill,
Glad you feel better.
My wife and I got our Flu vaccinations early this week as we have for decades. The tech was GOOD - could not feel the needle , no blood seep, and no after effects! All as usual.

Same tech recently drew blood for labs with similar effectiveness.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by Pisgah »

Sore shoulder and felt a bit draggy the next day, but that was it.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

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AJMD 429 -- earlmck & Jim T knocked it out of the park with their post on this subject!
( sorry you didnt feel good Bill)
all sorts of horro stories where my wife works on the jab, around 300 people working there
if they mandate the jab im not sure they will have the man power to to run a huge power plant, they have already
lost workers, my wife will get fired befor she gets the shot if the big force comes into effect
so if that happens just for us could mean thousands of dollars of lost wages a month, not good!!
no its not just poor me , its every one that belives in its my choice, that have or will lose a good job



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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I really don't care what the numbers show. I don't like seeing people forced to take something they don't want to.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

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Scott Tschirhart wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:55 pm
I really don't care what the numbers show. I don't like seeing people forced to take something they don't want to.
I AM WITH YOU BROTHER!
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

JimT wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:05 pm
Scott Tschirhart wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:55 pm
I really don't care what the numbers show. I don't like seeing people forced to take something they don't want to.
I AM WITH YOU BROTHER!
My doctor told me to take the booster and that it would not hurt me. I'm going to take it because I trust my doctor. But I don't want the government to tell me to. And I don't want the government using employers to make people take it.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

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Scott Tschirhart wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:55 pm
I really don't care what the numbers show. I don't like seeing people forced to take something they don't want to.
i completely agree!! in our medical clinics we have people [ young folks ] who dont want to get the vaccine, so we test them weekly ; we cant be spreading the disease to people who come for medical care. but testing should be effective. we have had 6 of 12 personnel in one clinic, get the delta variant in the last 5-6 weeks. one of these is a 32 year old male, who was vaccinated. we only knew he was positive because we test everyone. he never developed the slightest symptoms, which is most often the case with those who are vaccinated. one of the others, a strong, fit, healthy 24 year old female who was not vaccinated got covid, got extremely ill. was hospitalized for a week. went home , got sicker again , went back into the hospital. her ct scan of lungs shows extensive pneumonias. her case shocked me.

anyway, i completely agree that the government has no right to mandate. private employers of course can require it, but we have chosen testing as our alternative, the majority of our people are vaccinated which was their choice.

[ i only posted the discussion of the numbers because there is a lot of nonsense being propagated.... by all sides of these issues. ]
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Cable,

I appreciate you posting the numbers becase we should have accurate information. Thank you.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by hfcable »

thanks Scott. i believe we are all on the same page here.

i really believe that freedom is precious--- really more precious that mere life itself. if not why have we given so many american lives in war and other ways of defending our country.

if we give up freedom that what was it all for ? freedom is not free, never has been.

on the other hand i dont want to see anyone here make a decision that could harm them, without having good information.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

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Scott Tschirhart wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:11 pm
JimT wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:05 pm
Scott Tschirhart wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:55 pm
I really don't care what the numbers show. I don't like seeing people forced to take something they don't want to.
I AM WITH YOU BROTHER!
My doctor told me to take the booster and that it would not hurt me. I'm going to take it because I trust my doctor. But I don't want the government to tell me to. And I don't want the government using employers to make people take it.
Yep. Patients do many things that are way riskier than the vaccine (driving a car, eating junk food, water skiing, etc.) and it is absolutely their right, and their physician should not be dictatorial about taking, or not taking, the CoVid vaccine - just give advice, and let the PATIENT decide.

I know many health care workers who got the vaccine (about 1/3 of them around where I am), but many of those health care workers DO oppose 'mandates', much as Dan Bongino does (he is threatening to leave Sirius broadcasting over the mandate, even though he has actually been vaccinated. If more people stood up like that to push back, we'd not have all this socialist police-state nonsense going on.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by hfcable »

you are so right AJ !

ironically some of the self proclaimed socialist scandanavian countries have refused to do mandates, have not closed the schools etc and they are doing better than most other places .
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by CowboyTutt »

AJMD429 wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:15 pm
Scott Tschirhart wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:11 pm
JimT wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:05 pm
Scott Tschirhart wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:55 pm
I really don't care what the numbers show. I don't like seeing people forced to take something they don't want to.
I AM WITH YOU BROTHER!
My doctor told me to take the booster and that it would not hurt me. I'm going to take it because I trust my doctor. But I don't want the government to tell me to. And I don't want the government using employers to make people take it.
Yep. Patients do many things that are way riskier than the vaccine (driving a car, eating junk food, water skiing, etc.) and it is absolutely their right, and their physician should not be dictatorial about taking, or not taking, the CoVid vaccine - just give advice, and let the PATIENT decide.

I know many health care workers who got the vaccine (about 1/3 of them around where I am), but many of those health care workers DO oppose 'mandates', much as Dan Bongino does (he is threatening to leave Sirius broadcasting over the mandate, even though he has actually been vaccinated. If more people stood up like that to push back, we'd not have all this socialist police-state nonsense going on.
I can tell you based upon my last trip to Ukraine last summer in August of 2021 for 3 weeks and all over the country, that the majority of Ukrainians don't follow social distancing AT ALL, and only less so, wearing masks. I do not believe the data on wearing masks is accurate as, at best, the data is very conflicting. I tend to think it offers no real benefit, but its used as a means of government control even.

My own current admin wants to control everything we do, so not in favor of that.

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Re: Moderna booster reaction

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"one of the others, a strong, fit, healthy 24 year old female who was not vaccinated got covid, got extremely ill. was hospitalized for a week. went home , got sicker again , went back into the hospital. her ct scan of lungs shows extensive pneumonias. her case shocked me."

Harold, this is the best argument for getting the vaccine. Once it reaches this state, it can be lethal, especially to those of us who are older or have co-morbidities. Thank you for sharing it. After all these years of seeing your posts here and on Accurate Reloading, I never realized you were a doctor.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by hfcable »

thanks Bill, i generally stick to posting about firearms. i am a physician and do get concerned so at times and then will do this kind of post.

i am retiring in december....have a the first grandchild now [ he is 6 months old ....i am a late starter ! ] and have a very important job to do with him. already bought him his first rifle , a chipmunk . got to be around to teach him !
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by Grizz »

this paper is from a recent meeting concerning the long term risks of the experiment,

https://media.mercola.com/ImageServer/P ... it-pdf.pdf

it's kind of chilling to read this stuff. these people do not appear to me to be deceivers or liars or killers, which is different from what i read about the pushers behind the jab

but of course, if anyone is still alive three years from now, there may be a definitive answer to the question

.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

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believe what you will, but within the medical profession Mercola and malone have near zero credibility mercola is a self promoting, marginally trained guy who has parlayed his brand of alternative medicine into a multi hundred million fortune. i have read his stuff in the past...extensively . he is glib and about as credible as joe biden. i have also read malone and then read what world renowned virologists etc say. malone is just simply wrong about a number of his major assertions. what he says has already been proven untrue. malone was not the first to work on mRNA vaccines , not the sole inventor, nor did he do the long term work to perfect it. his role should not be ignored but neither should his disgruntled claims be taken at face value.

mainstream academic medicine is not filled with idiots, frauds, or crooks. i trained at chapel hill and duke. most of my professors could have made a lot more $ by not being in academic medicine or research. i read what they say and then i read mercola .... no comparison and malone has made many claims and theories that have already been completely disproven.

i am not against alternative medicine. i use such things personally and have found some that are very useful for back pain patients etc.

but for these two guys.... thanks but no thanks.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by Grizz »

Hi Cable, thanks for the perspective, I appreciate your input.

Are you saying that mercola wrote the paper that he hosted on his website? I will revisit but I thought that it was the output of an international conference.

I agree that mercola has monitized his POV. I am not in the medical field so it doesn't offend me.

Beyond that, what is your opinion of the Frontline doctors, or the other independent physicians who are successfully treating ccc19 victims, and saving lives, and speaking out against the drug pushers?

And what do you make of the VAERS statistics in light of the principle to "do no harm"?

What is the scientific reason to vaccinate the world population against a disease with a kill rate of less than 1%?

And what is the correct scientific response to the alleged virus-shedding of the "fully vaccinated"?

As you can see there are a lot of questions, I hope you have some energy to address them from your experience and training levels.

Thanks Sincerely
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

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ii will address a bit more of this, then i am done .

the international conference was not a main stream top notch assembly of renowned credible scientists . the paper is mostly the rumblings and grumblings of malone. not a consensus paper from panels of experts.

i am not offended by mercola getting rich. but getting rich by disparaging main stream proven therapies and promoting your own alternatives instead.... he does most of it by insinuation and not outright lies, and manipulates those who trust him

we vaccinate for many diseases that have a low death rate --- we do this to prevent disease, and to decrease severity of disease, not just prevent death. polio didnt often kill, but it produced significant disease. the current covid vaccines definitely decrease the incidence of infection, and frequently markedly decrease the severity of the disease. that is why we vaccinate.

i am for anything that will help us with this virus. anything that may help and isnt likely to harm i am good with. i obtained hydroxychloroquine within days after the french doctors saying it appeared to help. i got a supply for many friends and colleagues. i take the zinc and other things daily. i travel with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin and others... they are always within reach. but, large studies showed that once disease is severe, it didnt seem to help, which doesnt prove that its useless if started early enough. ivermectin....one small study suggested it helps, other studies said no. there is a very large mainstream trial of ivermectin being carried it now. then we will know. in the meantime, if given a safe dosage why not try it? i am all for that .i really do use a significant amount of alternative medical therapies. but i dont discount and disparage mainstream therapies that are tested and proven..

we do have antibody infusions for covid that are very effective if started right away. i am signed up already for that if i need it.. it is a proven therapy.

yes, vaccinated people who get covid, do shed virus, but not as severely nor as long. studies have shown that. and no, vaccinated people dont get covid as readily as the uncvaccinated.

there are no easy answers to any of this. i am for whatever works, but stories of the impending vaccine apocalypse are just....well, stories.

i am done with this, and i am truly sorry if i have stepped on toes or offended anyone.
Last edited by hfcable on Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
cable
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by Grizz »

you haven't offended me Cable. you are polite and to the point and i understand what you are saying and appreciate it.

there is no bottom to my curiosity and desire to discern truth in all of this, thanks for taking time to respond

Grizz

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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by Blaine »

hfcable wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:00 pm
ii will address a bit more of this, then i am done .

the international conference was not a main stream top notch assembly of renowned credible scientists . the paper is mostly the rumblings and grumblings of malone. not a consensus paper from panels of experts.

i am not offended by mecrola getting rich. but getting rich by disparaging main stream proven therapies and promoting your own alternatives instead.... he does most of it by insinuation and not outright lies, and manipulates those who trust him

we vaccinate for many diseases that have a low death rate --- we do this to prevent disease, and to decrease severity of disease, not just prevent death. polio didnt often kill, but it produced significant disease. the current covid vaccines definitely decrease the incidence of infection, and frequently markedly decrease the severity of the disease. that is why we vaccinate.

i am for anything that will help us with this virus. anything that may help and isnt likely to harm i am good with. i obtained hydroxychloroquine within days after the french doctors saying it appeared to help. i got a supply for many friends and colleagues. i take the zinc and other things daily. i travel with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin and others... they are always within reach. but, large studies showed that once disease is severe, it didnt seem to help, which doesnt prove that its useless if started early enough. ivermectin....one small study suggested it helps, other studies said no. there is a very large mainstream trial of ivermectin being carried it now. then we will know. in the meantime, if given a safe dosage why not try it? i am all for that .i really do use a significant amount of alternative medical therapies. but i dont discount and disparage mainstream therapies that are tested and proven..

we do have antibody infusions for covid that are very effective if started right away. i am signed up already for that if i need it.. it is a proven therapy.

yes, vaccinated people who get covid, do shed virus, but not as severely nor as long. studies have shown that. and no, vaccinated people dont get covid as readily as the uncvaccinated.

there are no easy answers to any of this. i am for whatever works, but stories of the impending vaccine apocalypse are just....well, stories.

i am done with this, and i am truly sorry if i have stepped on toes or offended anyone.
Finally, some common sense...And, no tin foil hat 8)
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by jdad »

hfcable wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:04 pm
i am 74 and had little reaction to my 3rd pfizer injection
my wife had minor headache and nothing more

as for the statement that i have heard a lot of times that:

“ You have less than a 1% chance of dying from the virus and about the same from the vax. “ such statements frequently circulate but are extremely innaccurate. i am an MD and i keep up with the numbers . the death rate for covid was 1.4% but is falling now . the death rate for the vaccine in the US stands at 0.0018 % and is quite similar in the rest of the world .

take it or don’t take it . but base your decision on accurate information .

not only is the death rate for covid vs vax greatly higher , there many many more who live thru covid but have severe persistent lung symptoms and terrible damage visible on the ct scans of their lungs. this is a reality i have personally seen daily and some of these are young people

so yes, make your personal choice but be sure it is an informed choice not based on misinformation
Much appreciate the clarification on virus vs vax death numbers.
I know a whole lot about very little and nothing about a whole lot.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

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Agreed on the problem with misinformation.

Sometimes I think most of the doctors around where I am practicing are getting their continuing medical education off of Twitter and Facebook... :roll:

Add to that the perverse incentives for those who are in salaried positions working for hospitals who get multi-million dollar 'rebates' if they promise not to use competing drugs, and it really gets strange.

I think the only solution is to read everything, especially including a so-called 'extremes'; relying on someone else or some magazine editorial review board to 'curate' articles is a recipe for misinformation.

In pharmacy school one of our classes ran for a full year and was specifically devoted to critiquing medical journal articles. It was a third year follow-up after a couple years of statistics classes, and the expectation was that we would pick apart the medical journal articles mostly based on improper application or calculation of statistics. What we quickly found was that the methodology was usually the weak point of most medical journal articles, and that the worst of the journals were JAMA and the New England Journal of Medicine. They would publish esoteric articles with an eye towards getting quoted on 60 Minutes or written up in the New York Times, yet they would have a completely inappropriate control group or some fundamental other problem with their methodology that rendered the article essentially worthless.

So what you really have to do these days is go to the primary literature that people site, whether it is people like Mercola, or the CDC themselves, and read the original studies, looking at them from a fundamental standpoint, without just looking at p values and so forth.

When you do that, it's pretty easy to spot flaws in arguments for and against the vaccines. You also have to look at potential motivations for misinformation. If someone is making a bunch of money selling a supplement that they claim is the only way around whatever the issue is, that could be a motivation for them to stretch the truth, to say the least. Currently the big profit is for those who sell the vaccines and administer them, whereas the people who are pointing out flaws for the most part don't have a whole lot of money to gain by doing so, and in most cases are actually putting their own livelihood at risk by doing so.

Whatever the benefit to risk ratio was of the mrna-based vaccines over the past 10 months or so that they have been available, I think the data is pretty clear that as predicted, the vaccine has now been outpaced by mutations in the spike protein to the extent that the current virus is not impeded by the antibodies generated by the vaccine.

It's now up to almost 50% of the patients I see who have acute symptomatic covid that have been fully vaccinated, so the vaccine is not stopping people from getting infected. Since most people who get infected don't get terribly ill, it would take a great number of patients to get statistically significant data demonstrating whether or not vaccinated patients get more severe or less severe illness than non-vaccinated patients, so I can't claim one or the other, but I certainly see the vaccine as it presently exists as FAILING to be protective, and this is in line with the laboratory observations on decreasing binding affinity of antibodies to the spike protein as the virus continues to evolve.

What is sad is that the issue has become so political and polarizing that anyone who points out potential problems with the vaccine is immediately labeled an "anti-vaxxer" and supporters of the vaccine insist on comparing vaccination with the alternative of getting infected and not having any treatment. Unfortunately, not having any treatment is the norm in many places, but this would be analogous to comparing people who had the pneumococcal vaccine versus people who get pneumococcal pneumonia diagnosed in the emergency room, and then are sent home without any antibiotics, and told to return if they get so short of breath that they need to be intubated. That would be considered malpractice, but it is considered standard of care when it comes to covid.

If on the other hand patients are treated appropriately when they have covid diagnosed, the already low mortality is reduced by at least 90%.

Likewise, the alternative to vaccination is not simply to do nothing, and wait to get infected. There is a huge body of evidence indicating that other preventative measures are very effective, including things like Alkalol nasal douching, betadine gargles, the combination of zinc + quercetin, and yes, 'horse paste' in the form of ivermectin as designed and manufactured for human use. The pharmacologic science supports each one of those interventions even to the extent of detailing the mechanism of action. The fact that the mainstream journal literature sensors out any support for these regimens is enough to make a person skeptical of whatever they do support.

Now the mainstream journals are all full of excitement for Pfizer and Merck products that are going to be introduced to be used in the prehospital phase of covid. They have been tested on several hundred patients for a couple months, so have now been deemed as showing "evidence of safety and efficacy". I know some of my fellow physicians in the area where I practice who are eager to start using these medicines, and yet have refused to use a product that Merck developed about 30 years ago that has been studied for over a year and shown great efficacy and extreme safety, namely ivermectin.

In the end, much of this boils down to one's tolerance for risk, ones faith in the news media, and one's trust in big Pharma.
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hfcable
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by hfcable »

great discussion ..... well put and good analysis. i read a lot and the best i can hope for is to find the middle ground.

do you ever listen to ZDog and his podcasts ? he is striving for the middle ground and often gives a telling analysis of the stuff thrown out both sides and by the CDC
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

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We've had ivermectin deaths in New Mexico. Poor, ignorant souls ingesting doses for 1200-pound animals, with predictable results. May they rest in peace.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by CowboyTutt »

I believe the concentration of Ivermectin is the same in either the human tablets or the "horse paste". Ivermectin is one of the the very safest drugs you could ever take. You simply need to adjust the dose to human standards. It's not hard to do, and it works.
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by 6pt-sika »

I truely believe to each his own as far as vaccination is concerned . I never ever got a flu shot until my mother was doing chemo battling cancer and only took it those few years because she asked me to . As to the crud vaccine I got the Moderna back in March/April and I scheduled to get the booster this coming Monday . Whether it works or whether it doesn’t is pretty much irrelevant in my decision to get poked . I wanted it so if I’m ever able to go see my family in the Philippines perhaps it’ll cut down on the b..u..l..l..s..h..I..t I have to endure in the air terminals and hopefully keep me from being quarantined in Manila when I arrive .
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by earlmck »

Bill in Oregon wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:12 pm
We've had ivermectin deaths in New Mexico. Poor, ignorant souls ingesting doses for 1200-pound animals, with predictable results. May they rest in peace.
Yeah, us old rednecks can get confuzzled when we get hit with a "mg/kg" dose recommendation. When I figured out that a pound of mammal is a pound of mammal and that 1200 pound horse dose was good for 6 doses for a 200 pound guy it worked better in my brain pan.

And wow! I had not heard that there had been deaths from Ivermectin overdose; just that there were calls to poison control centers. The horse medicine does say on the box to adjust the dose to the weight of the horse with the whole thing treating a 1200 pound horse and has a nice little moveable collar to adjust for smaller horses. You'd think even a redneck would be able to puzzle it out better than taking the whole thing at once. But the new FLCCC guidelines would have a 200 pound guy take half of that horse tube as an initial dose if treating an active Covid case for a dose triple what the former recommendation was. I wonder where the toxicity level is; the death may not have been from a horse-dose Ivermectin but rather from ingesting one of those 250 ml. injectables used for cattle. Friend Butch has been using that for his doses and it's something like 1.5ml for a dose for a 200 pound guy. 250 ml would definitely get past the recommended dose by a long ways.
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Earl, you are a wiser man than most, and I trust your judgment regarding ivermectin dosing. It is still a mystery to me how a horse de-wormer actually interacts with the covid virus particles, but there is clearly anecdotal evidence that in some cases it can be effective.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/hea ... 830791001/
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Re: Moderna booster reaction

Post by Tycer »

Bill in Oregon wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:37 am
Earl, you are a wiser man than most, and I trust your judgment regarding ivermectin dosing. It is still a mystery to me how a horse de-wormer actually interacts with the covid virus particles, but there is clearly anecdotal evidence that in some cases it can be effective.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/hea ... 830791001/
During the viral phase of SARS-CoV-2 infection IVM binds to the spike protein and the ace2 receptor the virus needs to use to gain cell entry. This also seems to be the case for long-covid and mRNA spike proteins.
IVM also blocks the a/b importin which the virus needs to get into the cell nucleus from the cytoplasm (J&J also).
There are two othe mechanisms that may also prevent replication.
IVM is also a strong anti-inflammatory.
Kind regards,
Tycer
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