Chairmen of the Politically Incorrect

[GunnyMack]

Hey Jay, if you are still interested in playing with your 10/22, Midway has ER Shaw barrels listed for $114.99. Heavy bull contour at .920 .

[Old Savage]

Road salt certainly takes its toll.

[Sixgun]

That sucks.....that's not your Jeep is it?.......on Ole Yeller, after a power washing and drying....I used to put 4-6 cans of spray paint underneath every year and that Jeep today is SOLID........believe Jay uses transmission oil and they spray that on....

Types of steel?.....I'm no metallurgist but Winchester case hardened where needed and used nickel steel on those high pressure cartridges......and 125 years later they are holding up....so why change? Even the pre-nickel steel guns held up great...It's only the frame that's hard on a Ruger, being investemt cast while the cylinder is heat treated....can't be too hard as guys rechamber them...you know about that.

It was rare in those days to shoot like we do today....that's why old guns are carried a lot/shot little......unless if your name was Elmer Keith......his dad came home with 500 pounds of lead, 5,000 primers and a keg of black powder one time for Elmer when they were going to be expecting trouble.....from other people.....and Elmer's dad wanted him to be a sure shot with the Colt single action army in 45........I was born about 75 years too late......

[Old Savage]

You know gk has expressed some pretty rustic tastes; how about the old west with a more modern touch.

[GunnyMack]

Correct Jack cylinders are indeed heat treated differently. Rule of thumb is if ya cant cut it with a file its too hard. However the tempering process is where the money is. Not enough and its too hard, too much and too soft.
Most case hardening is at most about 12 or 15 THOUSANDTHS deep. But that can be enough to contain pressure or be too hard on the thin parts. I cased a Mauser 98, got gorgeous colors but the rear bridge warped. Held it in a vise and got a hunk of steel that fit inside and tried to torque it back, SNAP! Right where the bolt stop attaches is very thin. Only thing left was to anneal it & weld. Had to send it out for commercial heat treat.

[Sixgun]

Fred.....think back to the seventies and SNL........Chevy Chase, Garret Morris, John Belushi, Dan Aykroyd, Jane Curtain, Rosanadana, ...

My humor mirrors theirs....just copying from what I learned from others.....John Belushi and the Samurai Chef........Remember Three Mile Island?....They had a skit where they sent Garret Morris into the radiation filled room to mop it up. So Garret goes into the room with a mop bucket and comes out glowing green. THAT was good humor.

In later years it was a fact that the back room at SNL had tables full of alcohol and glass with huge lines of coke spread out for all who wanted it.....

[Sixgun]

Ok Gunny....you know more about that than I'll ever know...I only read and you did it........I believe that's why I have to keep pressures low on the old Smith Triplelock....made before high intensity heat treatment needed for the magnums...

I've used Kasenite quit a few times for little stuff that I can understand....did a hammer on a Marlin 32-20 for the other Gunny....he picked this gun up for like $200 because the hammer had no notches at all........yea, I know, just replace the hammer but I wanted to play with it.......stuck it in a vise and hand filed a notch, heated it up glowing and stuck it in the Kasenite, repeated it and stuck it in cold water as per directions...had a 1.5 pound pull and thousands of rounds later it still held up......I was lucky.....a file glided across it.

[.45colt]

Bass o matic , Killer Bees , colon blow cereal , The Lupners, Two wild and Crazy Guys , many more. My Favorite is Belushi doing Joe Cocker.... Captain Bligh...002 1/2.

[Sixgun]

Fred...that's rednecking at it finest....

On another note I was watching "Pickers" and the guys were jammed in a little spot digging out some signs when Mike stood up gagging...."Ok, who cut the cheese"?...

Hey 002 and 1/2! Yea..remember that humor? When I do it people call me nuts ......they were some good times, drinking and smoking weed and watching SNL..........lots has changed since those days......now they have to have sex and filth to get humor...

[Old Savage]

Six, fact is I didn’t see much TV I the late 60s or 70. Did see Jane you ignorant slut, cheeseburger/cheeseburger and was it Samurai Night Fever.

Here is a picture from a party in the early 70’s. Probably that was on PBR or Bud.

[Sixgun]

Ok, I was close. Cannot believe you passed over the early days of SNL!!!! you all dressed up in a flag....on the ground! You should be ashamed of yourself......well, not really....

I'm watching some coooooollll stuff on the Smithsonium channel...or however it's spelled......all about the German fighter aircraft...mostly the 109 and all it's different models. At that time the Italian Air Force was still using biplanes shooting out of the cockpit with revolvers....

I'd have to say that the British were the most fearless fighters........our guys had superior aircraft/top notch technology but those Limeys never backed away from a threat.......in the air or on the ground....or their people.....always admired the English tenacity.

[GunnyMack]

Best skit ever on SNL was Dan Aykroyd doing Julia Child. I laughed at it then and I laugh at it now if I watch it on yuutube, look it up and laff yer hindend off!

Casenite is great stuff, I have it and use it too. I had picked up a barreled Mexican Mauser from one of my instructors, he converted it to use a hand made model 70 type trigger. It was dead soft mild steel, I did the Casenite trick twice and it works perfectly. I've also used it on hand made tools.

By Federal regulations, wearing an American flag ( shirt, pants, bandanna, hat) is against the law. Wrapping yourself in a drunken stupor is probably bad as well!

So today we started putting up the lesibian pine ( tongue & groove) ceiling on the garage. 5 foot scaffolding and step ladders on top.

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That is a 12 foot step ladder. Let me tell ya, 12' on top of scaffold is a bit unnerving. Every time ya move is magnified!

[OldWin]

Yeah. For 30 years, we've sprayed used motor oil. I can tell you, it works. I haven't sprayed in a while now. My Jeep is put up winters.
The last rig I sprayed was Old Red. It's a 97 with 180k and was run in the salt and crud from 97 till my dad got it in 2011. Still wears the original paint, and the frame is still like new inside and out. Zero rust.
Dad's old 98 Dodge (the Jolly Green Giant) is the same. No rust.
I'm going to spray my Gladiator, and start doing Kristy's GC. I will probably make a switch to either Fluid Film or Woolwax. We just don't make enough used conventional oil now. I could buy new to spray, but I think the above products stay put better.

I didn't watch much SNL in the good years. Ain't no way I'd be home on a Saturday night. Me and my buds would be standing around a fire in some sand pit, tunes blaring, drinking beer, and having a time. Or, we'd be "night wheeling" somewhere back in the woods. Or, we'd be hanging out in the parking lots. Cars, trucks, and bikes parked, and everyone socializing.
Those were some good times. I think back on them often. Especially since now everything sucks. I wouldn't trade those days for a million dollars.

[OldWin]

Nice work Gunny!
Thanks for the tip on the 10/22 barrels. It's still down the list. I have a bunch of stuff to get ironed out first.

[Old Savage]

On steels, I think today’s steel are probably superior. I have read that the pre 64 Model 70s were proof tested at 99,000 ? Lbs while later designs at 140,000. Maybe design difference. The original 92s were made for cartridges much less demanding in pressures? We could do a destruction test on a 1914 92 and a recent Rossi, see which one comes out of it better. Stop when one gives way.

Yes sacrilege, and to make it worse that is a member of the Iowa NG. Can’t say as I recall the circumstances.

Rust not an issue here in SoCal.

[OldWin]

Yes. Today's steels are superior. However, that isn't an absolute. Just because a certain steel or alloy classifies as a certain type, does not guarantee the quality of the steel.
You see, manufacturing quality vs. Profit is a universal conundrum.

When we purchase steel, it is from specific vendors that have to verify that recipie and it's purity from the first pour. It is asigned lab numbers and serial number per lot and per bar. Then when we get it, we X-ray it and record it per bar, then again after the part is complete. Then it is MPI tested to test for and cracks, folds, deposits, or voids before that part is stamped and signed off by an inspector. All these processes add cost.
You could say "we use stainless" (the contents of which are a guarded secret. And.....it's magnetic).
And Ruger or Rossi or whoever can say "we use
stainless ".
But it don't necessarily mean the same thing.

[GunnyMack]

I remember hearing about a guy that put one of those new fangled stainless steel barrels on a rifle. It was great, accurate, consistent and kilt a bunch of amminals. Then he went to the artic on a polar b'ar hunt. When his shot came the barrel banana peeled from the muzzle. If I recall he had a metallurgical test and it was found the type of mix was prone to micro fissures, the cold was the last straw. Truth to it- I can't say but anything is possible.

Yes used oil and a drive down a dirt road used to be the go-to for the old timers here.

Order the barrel for that price and sit on it !

Does pressure matter?
You might be surprised by the old steel, a guy in skool took a Mauser action , made a false breech &smooth bore barrel to test a check valve BP nipple he designed. He quit at 300 gr of black and multiple .50 round balls before going to somewhere north of 50 grains of bullseye with multiple balls and a bolt welded to the muzzle before the action let go. Somewhere I have pics of a SBH John Gallagher was test firing when it blew up... he was holding it! The old case hardened steel are soft inside allowing them to give a little, stretching causes head space issues but can be fixed sometimes.

[GunnyMack]

So on a whim I bought a Lodge 10" carbon steel frying pan. So far I've made a ribeye, burgers and tonight pancakes & eggs. Im very pleased! The ribeye i did a 24 hour uncovered refrigerator dry with some salt on it. Very tasty steak. The burgers were great as well. Pancakes stuck less to the pan than the spatula. Eggs over easy were better than a non stick pan. Im sold on Lodge and made here in the USA!

[OldWin]

Can't beat it!
Anything cooked in a spider is better.

[Sixgun]

The first picture had me spinning....could not tell up from down.....looked like the ladder is stuck to the ceiling.......of forget it, I used to do LSD a few times about 50 years ago and it never leaves you.......that the truth.....I still get "trails"....

Yea...don't think I could do that......being high on an unstable ladder......don't take much for me to get dizzy......sure is nice work though.....I blew it up and everything is nice and square.....

I tell ya ...Vanna White is still hot until you see her close.....I remember she was an unknown and was on the Price is Right as a contestant.....smokin' hot....and......did you know she tried to be an actress and could not do it as she can't pretend to be someone she is not......vvveeerrryyy typical of a Cancer.....

Mom says Fred's rib eye is too thin.......she also says it should be fried on either side "easy" and then put in the oven. Let me tell ya, this gal of mine knows her meat.....loooonnngggg time ago she used to eat tube steak about 3-4 times a week.

Well...Jay is off for a few days...come on down!!!! ......and the next contestant is a dyed in the wool redneck from Maine. Jay tells,us he wants to win some kind of a new appliance as the ones in his neck of the woods all have bullet holes in em....

Ok...."superior steel"? ...for what?? I say the proper steel for the job and Winchester had it down with their nickel steel.--00

[Sixgun]

Steve Harvey and his new show where he is the judge. I'm telling you guys, these people exist.

[OldWin]

Hey buddy!
I agree with you. The old Winchester Nickel Steel is absolutely good stuff. Really good barrel steel.
I read a long time ago, and it makes sense.......
Winchester engineers back in the day were pretty much free to work on cartridge development, manufacturing improvements, and experimentation. They didn't do as much with gun design because JMB pretty much had it handled.

So, is it just up here, or do they call cast iron fry pans a "Spider" everywhere?

[Old Savage]

Well Six, that rib eye is a shoulder roast, just what are you trying to pull here.

Steels, seems I recall an old 1886 blowing up, 5744 was it?

Sounds like a lot of slipping the question here. I am just guessing mind you that Rossis like mine are stronger than 1914 Win 92s.

I also have a Lodge 10” and agree it is great with their seasoning assisted by vegetable oil and butter as I do.

[OldWin]

It is not about strength. Its about build quality.

It's easy to find a stronger shotgun than a fine English sidelock. I doubt, however, you find a better crafted one.

No different than Jeeps or Harleys. There are "better" vehicles, and "better" motorcycles. You either get it or you don't.

[Old Savage]

Ok, build quality. Really? Why? Harley, what is better?

Phrases here, sound like libs. Question though, who has the best build quality in the 4x4 category? Motorcycles, for what purpose. Is this phrasing just a way to defend personal preferences?

[Old Savage]

All sounding pretty touchy feely, could be in Hollywood. Seems I have read here about all that needs to be done to a Jeep to go wheeling around. What is just ready to go and not for 50k+, working man here.

Tutt wants a fire breathing 454 not some 32-20 or even 44-40. Probably takes a Rossi to stand up to that. Anybody convert a 1914 Win 92 to 454 or even my 45 Colt with a 360 at 1350? Or are we just sitting by the fire working that ultra smooth soft steel action.

[OldWin]

Depends on your definition of wheeling. A stock Rubicon is probably the most capable stock 4x4. I ran mine stone stock for 7 years. A new one will be close to that 50k.

If you judge a motorcycle by how fast it goes, how quick it goes through the turns, or performs on the track, you ain't looking at Harleys.
Of course, in 20 years, you will still be able to get parts for the Harley.

As far as rifle strength.....
If I recall, someone here did a test on one of those super duper cartridges in a pre war 94, a newer one, and a newer 336. The pre war Winchester lasted the longest.
While I only own one Rossi, I do own several original 92s and one Browning.
Now, maybe the original 92, while being designed in the black powder era, won't stand up to pressures that were inconceivable at the time of its production. I would wager the Browning would take it long after the Rossi was dead.
That really isn't a test of anything.

[Sixgun]

This much I can tell you....there's dozens of motorcycle brands out there and what brand does everyone who street rides want, or gradually work their way up to.....if they can afford it?....... Harley Davidson.

There's dozens of brands of Leverguns out there from all eras and for investing, quality, bragging rights, craftsmanship, and desirability, what is most sought after and touches the heart more than any other levergun........if they can afford it?......a pre war Winchester

There's lots of different kinds of four wheel drive vehicles out there and what does everyone think of when they hear "4 wheel drive and off roading?......if they can afford it?.......Jeep Rubicon

OK.....you need to know the time......what brand do most people think of knowing their dependability.....and they CAN afford it?.......Timex

Anyone who buys a Rolls Royce, A gold inlaid smuggle-buggle levergun, Rossi, cheap Japanese scooter, or Rolex will spend more on maintenance, headaches, and membership to AAA, Steves Gunz, doctors visits for high blood pressure, unacceptance to the incrowd and that's all they had to do is ask Jay, Gunny, or me and they would have saved lots of aggravation.

There's not a Rossi made that will endure many rounds of high pressure ammo...no levergun will.....they will eventually get excessive headspace ......with Rossi's in the lead...j.u.n.k.

This watch has been worn everyday for 12 years. It has cost me 3 batteries and has never missed a second.

[Sixgun]

Fred,
YOU deleted a post where you said it's a rib eye...first you said it was a roast....then I asked mom and she said to tell him it's a flank roast as he don't know a hamburger from an eyeball..... ...(I made that up )

When I first looked at it I thought it was tube steak and you were smoking a skin cigar..... ......

[harry]

I remember hearing about a guy that put one of those new fangled stainless steel barrels on a rifle. It was great, accurate, consistent and kilt a bunch of amminals. Then he went to the artic on a polar b'ar hunt. When his shot came the barrel banana peeled from the muzzle. If I recall he had a metallurgical test and it was found the type of mix was prone to micro fissures, the cold was the last straw. Truth to it- I can't say but anything is possible.

Yes used oil and a drive down a dirt road used to be the go-to for the old timers here.

Order the barrel for that price and sit on it !

Does pressure matter?
You might be surprised by the old steel, a guy in skool took a Mauser action , made a false breech &smooth bore barrel to test a check valve BP nipple he designed. He quit at 300 gr of black and multiple .50 round balls before going to somewhere north of 50 grains of bullseye with multiple balls and a bolt welded to the muzzle before the action let go. Somewhere I have pics of a SBH John Gallagher was test firing when it blew up... he was holding it! The old case hardened steel are soft inside allowing them to give a little, stretching causes head space issues but can be fixed sometimes.

Subject: Stainless Barrels vs. Cold Weather

Several arms companies have recently offered hunting rifles with a stainless steel barrel. Here's some cautionary information about stainless steel barrels.

When the temperature goes down, stainless steel has less fatigue resistance. Its physical properties drop off with temperature. There have been instances of stainless barrels in hunting rifles bursting when the ambient temperature is around zero degrees, or less.

Some custom barrel makers specifically caution against using their stainless barrels in hunting rifles. One (Krieger) doesn't even make sporting/hunting barrels in stainless steel. ***In a conversation with B.J. Obermeyer some years ago, he told me that some of his stainless barrels were installed in hunting rifles and used in Alaska winter-time hunts. Some of these barrels burst when fired.****

Chrome-moly (i.e., type 4140 or 4150) barrels maintain their fatigue resistance very well in really cold temperatures. Stainless steel (i.e, type 416R), typically used for rifle barrels, is the really cold-weather culprit.

[Sixgun]

.

[Sixgun]

I never knew that about stainless barrels bursting......must be rare, as rare as a Rossi that feeds.

[Old Savage]

We are going to have to take this a bit at a time. First thanks for the opinions on 4x4s, no experience or needs. But good to know that for 50k I could go where I have no need to go. Most of the rough country travel I have been in on was in friend’s Toyotas.

Now on rifle strength, there has been a morph between design, steel, periods and opinions people want/like to hold, some touchy feely. “what is most sought after and touches the heart more than any other levergun.” Sixer.

Heaviest I have shot in a 92 is 50 rds of 360 gr at 1350 fps in my Rossi, no strain, no pain, worked fine. I doubt if there was ever an equivalent load for a touchy feely Win 92.

Now on the meat. I don’t know how far we would have to go back for me to be cooking a rib eye. Maybe we are talking standing rib roast. We all know what that is. I have done them in the oven and on the grill. Last I posted was a shoulder roast in the cast iron skillet.

Now then we leap from lauding expensive choices for function and pride to Rolexes of various types. Mine is the common Datejust. Six has the more exotic, exclusive model.

Since I long ago passed 100,000 patient visits with various misconceptions I am well used to untangling mixed opinions but we will have to sort them out a bit at a time

[Old Savage]

Ok, now on a curve 6 is trying to throw me, depending on how they “break the beef” the cuts are different. There are also local differences. You will likely not know what an Argentinian cut of steak is. Flank roast, not sure what that cut is as it is not a term I see them use here.

Now out here rib eye is used for steak. If the same is in a roast it will be called a boneless rib roast. “Mom” will likely know this, Six, maybe not so much but the line can blur with his mood whether he is busting or being technically correct. Btw fish names differ east to west.

We had a drill sargeant who made drill sargeant of the fifth army. He told one fellow “Trainee, you wouldn’t know chocolate pudding from a good grade of sh•t.” Not sure how that correlates with hamburger to eyeballs.

Here is a Rossi burger.

[GunnyMack]

First off Jay, this pan is carbon steel, not cast iron.
Secondly, no spiders here except for the ones that eat bugs and make webs at face height you walk through, mostly in the dark!

Third, see Harry confirmed what I said about stainless barrels- I'm NOT full of hot air! Again the formula of stainless matters!


Fourth, yes most capable stock 4wd is a jeep, especially the Rubicon. Factory locking differentials, good ground clearance, good power to weight ratios. Only drawback is the 4:10 gear ratio per fuel economy ( especially at $4-6/ gallon. Not to mention their size , very handy in tight places.

Fifth, one thing I see, understand regarding Six's junk claim leads me to believe that there is/was QC concerns due to poor parts fitting( in or out of spec) as well as the possibility of different batches of steel being the culprit too. Meaning a batch with a little less ( or more) of say chromium, that will change properties of said batch to be harder/ softer, more slick/ less slick. That being said, Nickle steel is a simple mix whereas stainless is quite a bit more to get right. Our technology at 1914 wasn't what we have now obviously and experience was what lead to better mixes .

Sixth, stainless steel is a fickle critter. The early stainless steel screws we used for decks 30 years ago were pure garbage. Soft, so soft that you could very easily spin the head off with a screwdriver. The early nails were worse as you couldn't drive a nail without them bending. The formulation changes over the years have lead to better ( not great) fasteners.

Seventh, I'm sure you have heard about stainless steel 'galling' proper lubricants on surfaces that interact is necessary. Dry surfaces , say the lifter, bolt , sear, disconnectors, what have you inside a firearm with gritty unburnt powder & carbon will grind together causing undue wear especially in very tight tolerances. I've seen guns , high dollar perazzis that guys don't lube with galled surfaces, they ask my why is this so hard to open, I'll take the gun apart and show them why- stupidity!

[OldWin]

Yup. People use the word "stainless" like its a single catch all term. It is not. Most don't realize that stainless steel is actually quite soft if not alloyed with properties to improve its qualities. As I said, I have worked with stainless for 30 years, but I have no idea what it really is. It is magnetic, when everyone knows stainless is not. Even with access to all drawings and the PLM manufacturing standards for inspection, I have no access to just what it is.
The biggest improvements in steel today is at the foundries. Being able to computer control the mix give ls excellent repeatability.
No stainless rifle barrels at my house buddy.

The biggest thing is that using good steel is expensive. It is also invisible. It's a lot of cost for something nobody sees or understands. The cheap in cheap guns has to come from somewhere. They know most don't get shot a lot, so if they can still make it look pretty then good enough.

[Old Savage]

Only have one stainless rifle, Rem Mod 7 in 7-08, has almost 1,000 rds through it, very accurate. Did have a stainless Rossi 92, very smooth feeling. Traded it off. So far no problems with the stainless revolvers.

If you do much with knives and get into composition there are many variations.

[Sixgun]

I only have a couple of minutes...gotta run mom to the docs......(releasing Nancy).........ALL firearms need fitting no matter how close the CNC does it......the money comes in the labor.......now, look at the labor....case closed.


I'll gen back on when I get the the doctors. I like taking pictures of weird looking people........last time I went there was a guy who was itching all over and couldn't stop scratching and he told me he had the worst case of the crabs ever......when mom came out I told her "that guy over there is a good friend of mine"...so she went over to introduce herself sand the guy hugged her....then she was scratching alllllllll the way home............

[Old Savage]

Case closed? Why the case is not closed at all. In fact the case is more wide open than ever.

[GunnyMack]

Some stainless steels are magnetic, seems like the lower grades like 304( I think thats one of em) are the junk non magnetic. Gotta have carbon in it to harden. Neither here nor there as the formulations for all steels change by a couple percentage points and have extremely different characteristics.
My new favorite knife steel is SV30(S30V? ) Takes a fantastic edge and holds it. Also like D2 tool steel for knives.
I had a worn out Nicholson 00 Swiss pattern file I turned into a knife, talk about holding an edge!!

[Old Savage]

Like D2, right on the edge of being classified stainless. Also like Victorinox and Case stainless and of course Cold Steel AUS 8, ATS34, and 1095 and O1. A lot depends on the heat treat in either category.

[Sixgun]

Gene Pool=Labor Pool....you figure it out....

You still don't know your meats.

Your ROLEX WATCH??!! Saw there was a big smash and grab down the road from you....lots of Rolex watches.... -----006

Have an extra?

[Old Savage]

You folks live in very cloistered encapsulated world back there and tend to think what you know in your world is what there is.

Now, I think it is you who has made the error here with your aging memory. Go back and reread what I was telling you about the larger world with more facets. You can trust that whatever it was I said about the meat is correct. I know you think you understand what you thought I said but tain’t so.

Try to identify this cut of meat. Then ask “Mom” if they have it back there and if so what they call it.

[Old Savage]

On the watch, no Rolex back up but I do have a Timex Expedition you may recall or not

[Old Savage]

Whoa, this thing loses almost a minute a year.

[Sixgun]

Flank Steak........

[Old Savage]

Out here what I showed you is called tri tip. That probably accounts for the confusion in terminology.

[Sixgun]

My great President, Mr. Joe Biden is such a nice guy.....he returned ALL of my tax money I paid out to our nice Federal Government.

When your poor and poverty stricken like me and mom, every penny counts. I've been saving up for the last 6 months so we can buy a 50 round box of .22 Shorts to use out of my Rossi single shot "boys rifle" so I can shoot some sparrows for dinner tonight.

Bless Mr Biden and all of the nice people, especially Ms. Pelosi and Mr Schummer, who gave him his righteous power.

My friend Joe Biden...Thanks Joe!

[Old Savage]

Here you go from Cali.

[Sixgun]

Fred,
I just told mom about the flank tip thingy and she said it's another name for the same thing...BUT, my wife has a tendency to lie to cover face.....I personally don't know a leg bone from an eyelash so I have to take her word for it.

She cooks.....I eat......and don't dare criticize.....I know my place! ---00