Ivermectin Musings....

Post all political posts here.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
The rules are simple...
- no advocation of violence to anyone
- no cursing

Violation of the rules will result in deletion of the topic.
piller
Posting leader...
Posts: 15188
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by piller »

This was my first big stroke.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
User avatar
KWK
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1389
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:31 am
Location: U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by KWK »

David wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 1:20 pm I knew a very health man 30 years old that died the next morning of a heart attack. hell of a coincidence
You say heart attack. Mayo Clinic says:
A heart attack occurs when the flow of blood to the heart is blocked.
I haven't read of arteries to the heart being blocked as a reaction to the vaccine. I have read of heart inflammation as a side effect. Even assuming it was inflammation which caused his heart to stop, one still has to weigh the risk of death from Covid to death from such inflammation. The local paper has reported many people younger than that dying of Covid, of course.
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31932
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by AJMD429 »

.
The vasculitis causes ischemia of organs (angina if heart, TIA if brain, amarosis fugax if retina, vascular glomerulonephritis if kidney, etc), or if severe enough, infarcts (usually we only use that term for heart ('M.I. or heart attack') or brain ('CVA or stroke'), where the organ is specialized enough a small damaged are can be dangerous or deadly). Myocarditis is a separate condition from vasculitis, although most of the time vasculitis would be present with myocarditis.

I've seen ALL of the above close after vaccination, and more cases than I've seen from those with covid infections. Part of that is likely because we actually TREATED outpatients, vs just telling them to take Tylenol.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
piller
Posting leader...
Posts: 15188
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by piller »

The Covid vaccine caused me to develop blood clots. The clots going to my brain caused the strokes. The J&J vaccine which I had , has been removed from the American market because it has been proven as causing blood clots. Stepwise order leaves no room for doubt.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
User avatar
David
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 792
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 9:46 pm

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by David »

unnamed.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11808
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by Grizz »

weigh the risk of death from Covid to death from such inflammation
the kill rate of covid has never exceeded that of the flu where there were honest counts AND honest distinction between dying FROM covid and dying WITH covid.

every time i see stats posted up on a tv screen i exercise my old calculator, and the survival rate always exceeds 99%. i've posted some of these results. anyone can do this. American statistics are heavily weighed down with lies and corruption and intentional obfuscating. American statistics, when the data is mined, reflect on the cupidity of the entire medical-government cabal breaking the CFRs AND the Nuremburg Code, making themselves into homicidal maniacs.

there is no other rational explanation of the facts that leak out. there is NO LOGICAL REASON to disrupt one's God-given immune system by transforming oneself into a GMO. the excuses given defy rational logic.

the truth is that EARLY TREATMENT by actual doctors who actually treat patients is far more effective in life-saving than any accounting of the failed medical experiment. the killing was not done by the spike, the killing was done by the lab coats who rejected and refused the known good treatments.

if anyone doubts this, find the data that ascribes Cause of Death to covid, and covid only with no other health issues present. then divide that quantity by the number of "cases", or by the population of the world, call it 4 billion, and see what number you come up with as the actual factual kill rate of the entire china-flu episode.

______________ fill in the blank.
User avatar
KWK
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1389
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:31 am
Location: U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by KWK »

Today's news includes a report that while deaths from heart disease rose in 2020 (before the vaccines were available), it declined in 2021 (after the vaccines were given). Deaths from strokes rose in 2020 and in 2021 but much less in 2021 (after the vaccines). Odd that.
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11808
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by Grizz »

KWK wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 11:10 pm Today's news includes a report that while deaths from heart disease rose in 2020 (before the vaccines were available), it declined in 2021 (after the vaccines were given). Deaths from strokes rose in 2020 and in 2021 but much less in 2021 (after the vaccines). Odd that.
The CDC, FDA, NIH, AMA, BOTH BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT, AND ALL THE PROPAGANDA BROADCASTERS,

are all CAUGHT RED-HANDED, [ MEANING WITH BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS ]

LYING, REVISING THEIR LIES, REVISING THEIR REVISIONS, OBFUSCATING,
AND DELIBERATELY ABUSING AMERICAN CITIZENS IN A MOST EGREGIOUS WAY.

i suggest your sources are likely equally untrustworthy, unless you can authenticate and certify them

User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31932
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by AJMD429 »

.
I have to ask if we are going to rely on 'data' from the CDC and 'studies' by drug companies, whether we would feel just as comfortable citing statistics given to us by the mafia regarding crime.... :lol: ...remember how the CDC handled "gun violence"*...???

. . . [The] CDC [note - this is the same Center for Disease Control we are now told to believe] and other health advocate sages [note - this would include the New England Journal of Medicine] build their case not only by suppressing facts, but by overt fraud, fabricating statistics, and falsifying references to support them. . .

* Link to the 83-page law review journal article quoted above, which is about 1/3 citations and references - https://guncite.com/journals/tennmed.html

. . . so we somehow think these same agencies are suddenly going to be honest. . . :lol: - :lol: - :lol: - :lol: - :lol: - :lol: - :lol: - :lol: - :lol: - :lol:


You have Pfizer which still holds the record for the largest guilty verdict and resultant fine for healthcare fraud in the US, and people believe everything they say.

You have government regulatory agencies populated by the same pool of people who serve on the boards of the vaccine makers, and whose funding is derived in large part from sales of vaccines, and people believe everything they say.

You have hospital CEOs enforcing policies, whose revenues are magnified if they follow protocols approved by the vaccine makers and government, with bonusing and rebates totalling in the billions of dollars, and people believe everything they say.

You have medical journals whose funding is almost completely from pharmaceutical companies, who cite primary literature studies selectively and distort the findings, but use enough sophisticated multi-syllable terminology to impress agenda-driven journalists and political pundits who seldom have three digit IQs, and people believe everything they say.

You have physicians who are employees of hospitals, whose paychecks depend on pleasing the CEOs, and people believe everything they say.

Personally, I'm a little more skeptical...

Then you have nursing staff and independent physicians and laboratory workers who are not going to receive financial bonuses if they go against the grain, and whistleblowers from the government and the vaccine industry who risk retaliation for speaking out, and people say it is all fake news.

:roll:

Here is but one example: https://youtu.be/RaLxhFiOBYk
Only the relatively bland ones stay up on YouTube.

Even our good Britisher John Campbell is starting to see the light:
https://youtu.be/YqTGD9LHe9g

'Evidence Based Medicine' is bovine excrement, but sounds impressive enough to fool most people...
https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o702

I think like many other complex and potentially emotionally-charged issues, you either have to live it to understand it, or be willing to learn a huge amount of technical things, sufficient to search out and obtain the primary studies (not just 'reviews' or press releases of 'data') read them critically, and base your opinions on that, instead of whichever political pundits you happen to align with say about 'studies show...'. That is a heck of a lot to ask of the electorate.

I spent 13 years after high school getting a formal education in both pharmacy and medicine, and it takes me at least an hour per page to parse through a primary literature pharmacologic study and verify the science and logic and validity, and even then, if I only read the studies I was told to read by pundits, I would still be misled.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11808
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by Grizz »

piller wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 3:45 pm The Covid vaccine caused me to develop blood clots. The clots going to my brain caused the strokes. The J&J vaccine which I had , has been removed from the American market because it has been proven as causing blood clots. Stepwise order leaves no room for doubt.
i found this in a folder. might be Mercola. perhaps there is something useful in it . . .
Screenshot 2022-02-21 105840.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11808
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by Grizz »

KWK wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 11:10 pm Today's news includes a report that while deaths from heart disease rose in 2020 (before the vaccines were available), it declined in 2021 (after the vaccines were given). Deaths from strokes rose in 2020 and in 2021 but much less in 2021 (after the vaccines). Odd that.
Screenshot 2022-03-28 100747.png


and there's more:
Screenshot 2022-03-28 111525.png
and
Screenshot 2022-03-28 113101.png

"without them even knowing it"

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/arti ... rship.aspx

this article is worth reading. the world's human population has been deeply manipulated by thought and mind control strategies that are designed to make people believe the lies.

>lies are demonic. >believing lies is believing demons. >espousing lies is serving demons.

here is a fill-in-the-blank- opportunity for an evidence-based rebuttal: _________


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
KWK
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1389
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:31 am
Location: U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by KWK »

Grizz wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:26 pmi suggest your sources are likely equally untrustworthy, unless you can authenticate and certify them
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31932
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by AJMD429 »

.
It's productive to carry on discussions where people who have different opinions on an issue can share their opinions and potentially expose others to new ideas or new ways of looking at things.

It's NOT productive to have to relitigate an entire literature search and produce a 27 page essay with footnotes in order to justify one's opinion, particularly when it's pretty obvious that that's not going to result in anyone else's opinion changing.

We all have to read what we can, learn what we can, listen to the opinions of others, and to the extent we are able, to dive back into the literature and see if what others have said rings true. But in the end, people who are infatuated with the vaccine aren't going to change their mind just because other people find it to be a terrible vaccine, any more than people who are convinced that the vaccine is terrible are going to suddenly change their mind and run out and get vaccinated just because of someone else's opinion.

The point is not to change anyone's opinion in particular, just to share information so people who are interested but haven't investigated the issue enough can have resources from all sides of the issue to check out. They will make up their own minds, which is how it should be. I'm certainly not going to resent someone who comes to different opinions than I do on an issue, so long as they have made a sincere effort to evaluate all sides of the issue.

Seldom does any issue have such pure data or studies or evidence that examples can't be found to discredit either side. When the issue is political or involves lots of money, it's not uncommon for fraudulent information to be given to one side or another intentionally, only so it can be publicly rebutted.

For me, the fundamental issues of mandatory vaccination go far beyond whether or not the vaccine is effective, and whether or not the vaccine is safe.

The two fundamental issues are:

1. It is never appropriate to initiate force against other human beings, and that holds true regardless of whether it is done with good intentions, or for some 'greater good' imagined by the ones using or threatening force. For that reason, I would oppose any forced vaccination, no matter how safe, nor effective. If you don't have the right to keep me from vaccinating you in order to protect me, then I guess I don't have the right to keep you from breaking my arm just in case I decide to hit you. That is nonsensical.
Recommend and persuade all you want but never force.

2. When any side of what should be a public debate, resorts to censorship of descending opinions, they have automatically lost all credibility. Censorship isn't far behind violence in terms of it's negative effect on society. For that reason, I cannot accept in good faith things published by media that stifles open and honest dialogue.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11808
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by Grizz »

I'm adding this here because Dr Vliet, [pronounced "Fleet" I think], has set up a citizens adverse reaction website where anyone can detail a vaccine injury.

_https://www.truthforhealth.org/vaccine-injury-report/

And b. to bring attention to a video that documents a cell phone receiving dangerous amounts of radiation when the phone connects to some web site that "they" don't like.
Screenshot 2022-03-29 111352.png
https://www.truthforhealth.org/2022/03/ ... -watching/

the narration is in spanish, but there are readable captions.
The host demonstrates a mobile device emitting high levels of radiation when user views the wrong content, and low levels of radiation when user views suggested content. These findings indicate there is an active hidden ranking system embedded within media platforms that trigger increases in mobile device EMR emission designed to penalize users by assaulting those who are viewing content the platforms deem harmful or damaging to their messaging objectives.
this is evidence of felony assault by cellphone.

and in the interest of "science" here is space for evidence proving that the video is a hack and there is perhaps someone with an rf noise-maker trying to fool us. :roll:




________________________________________________________________________________
attach more data to the back side
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31932
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by AJMD429 »

.
Trust these people for sure...

https://justthenews.com/sites/default/f ... dacted.pdf

https://m.theepochtimes.com/watchdogs-f ... 69674.html

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/0 ... -pandemic/

https://youtu.be/sqD_JYAs7pU (...amazing it even is sticking on YouTube... :shock: )

"....but of course it's all just vast right wing conspiracy theory..." :lol:
https://joebot.substack.com/p/vaxxed-by ... y-machines
... Somehow it seems that like Hunter's laptop and Moderna's viral genome patient, today's "conspiracy" becomes tomorrow's reality more often than not... :|
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
User avatar
KWK
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1389
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:31 am
Location: U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by KWK »

A couple of new reports have come out, confirming what was known, that there is a risk of adverse effects to the heart from the covid vaccines. Fortunately, the risk from the covid vaccine is lower than with several other well established vaccines and is also lower than the risk to the heart from the virus itself. This was found to be true even for the group most at risk from the vaccine, younger males.
User avatar
Tycer
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 7690
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:17 am
Location: Asheville, NC

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by Tycer »

quote=KWK post_id=942615 time=1649730086 us er_id=252]
A couple of new reports have come out, confirming what was known, that there is a risk of adverse effects to the heart from the covid vaccines. Fortunately, the risk from the covid vaccine is lower than with several other well established vaccines and is also lower than the risk to the heart from the virus itself. This was found to be true even for the group most at risk from the vaccine, younger males.
[/quote]
Show me the data and the links to the studies. I’ll wager I can show you poor methodology and conflicts of interest. You’ve been hoodwinked.
Kind regards,
Tycer
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.saf.org - https://peakprosperity.com/ - http://www.guntalk.com
User avatar
KWK
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1389
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:31 am
Location: U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by KWK »

I was able to find the reports you requested.

This one would take a while to go through, for it references over 20 previously published studies on vaccine risks. Here is the summary I saw yesterday:
One study, an analysis of 22 previous studies, found that the risk of the conditions including myocarditis in people who received a Covid-19 vaccine wasn’t significantly different from that for non-Covid-19 vaccines such as those against flu, polio and measles. And the heart risk associated with Covid-19 shots was lower than the risk after smallpox vaccination. The results of the analysis, which included data on the effects of more than 400 million doses of various vaccines, were published online Monday by The Lancet Respiratory Medicine.
The other one is simpler in that it only compares heart complications due to the vaccine to those from the virus. The news summary was:
Another analysis published April 1 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that the risk of cardiac complications including myocarditis, an inflammation of heart muscle, was higher in people after Covid-19 infections than after receiving a Covid-19 vaccine.
I didn't read this report. The trick will be in figuring out the heart complications rate due to the virus, given that so many people are asymptomatic. I have to wonder whether the hospitals have been routinely checking for SARS-2 antibodies in their heart patients. If not, the rate might be difficult to establish.

By the way, on what do you base your contrary conclusion?
User avatar
KWK
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1389
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:31 am
Location: U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by KWK »

KWK wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 8:48 pmI didn't read this report.
I got around to looking over that one. The analysis was simple enough. They had electronic records from 40 health care systems. The considered only people who were known to have been infected and those who were vaccinated. They looked out various windows after to see who had heart complications (myocarditis, etc). Those infected fared worse than those vaccinated, across all ages and both genders. They didn't consider people who developed the heart conditions but were neither infected nor vaccinated.

They list many caveats in their analysis, but they didn't mention the one I brought up earlier. It appears they really don't know how many people were infected but did not develop the heart complications. They'd only have caught people who were tested and found infected or those who had heart problems. Asymptomatic infections that didn't lead to heart problems would have been missed.

Assuming half those infected were asymptomatic and thus not tested, the conclusions aren't much different, for heart complications after vaccination were less than half as common as after infection.
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11808
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by Grizz »

User avatar
KWK
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1389
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:31 am
Location: U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by KWK »

I followed that over to the AFLDS site, where I "learned" that ivermectin not only cures Covid it also cures some cancers. Wow! Is there nothing this drug can't do!!?
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31932
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by AJMD429 »

KWK wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:01 pm I followed that over to the AFLDS site, where I "learned" that ivermectin not only cures Covid it also cures some cancers. Wow! Is there nothing this drug can't do!!?
No doubt there will be the same 'miracle drug' pendulum swing like with Vitamin C thirty years ago, Vitamin D twenty years ago, and so on...

It is fascinating how many things some compounds can do, but if you put it in the chemical/pharmaceutical perspective, it starts to make sense.

Think of the human (or animal) body as a big aircraft carrier, cruising around on its mission, but in constant need of fuel and repair parts. It would 'ingest' some things (uranium, petrol) for energy, and other things it would seek out for repairs (welding wire, bolts, motors, etc.). The more complex parts would be things some other large organized entity (i.e. factory) would have to produce. Some parts would be rarely needed, some commonly, and some would be complex parts for some radar array, versus other really generic hardware. Some would be only needed if rare circumstances happened, such as failure of a couple systems simultaneously.

Humans are similar, in that we need some simple stuff (omega-3 fats, essential amino acids, vitamin C) and we might become symptomatic quickly if we ran out of them. Just like the carrier if it were depleted of petroleum or welding wire. Other oddball chemicals that would be only found in small amounts in some foods, and are rarely needed, or stored easily, would be the equivalent of the replacement part for some redundant backup radar system or something; not a problem unless certain circumstances, injuries, stress, or illness arise. I'd wager we only even know the identity of 10% or less of these molecules.

Over the millenia, the physiology of cells has evolved to the point that most of these pathways are pretty solid, and we, like that carrier, have redundant abilities to inter-convert many chemicals, and backup metabolic pathways and so on. We do well, especially if we intake a variety of vegetable products, as they have a source of many different 'rare' molecules we may need.

Now suppose the dude in the decorated carriage comes to town, with the latest 'tonic' - rub it in your hair, and it will thicken your hair, cure baldness, and relieve headaches. It also cures athletes foot, and if you drink it, fixes erectile dysfunction, cures ulcers, and helps you lose weight. Cures diarrhea AND constipation. Amazing stuff...! Well my skeptical-radar would go off for sure.

On the other hand, suppose nobody had yet invented screws yet, and some dude shows up to the construction site or factory, and claims his new item will allow the better and faster installation of drywall (vs nails), assembly of furniture (vs glued pegs), decking for roofs, and floors, and hold together other parts, it might strain credulity, until we examined the screws and learned and understood the mechanism by which they worked.

I think it is fair to say that some of the yet-undiscovered molecules we KNOW exist that we need for so many physiologic purposes, from maintaining the heart muscle, to serving as enzyme co-factors, fighting infections, modulating cytokine production, and so forth - are likely similar to the drywall-screw - in that they are likely to serve multiple 'seemingly unrelated' purposes due to underlying biochemical processes and pathways we are unaware of.

Periodically we discover such commonalities and pathways, and decades of prior 'state of the art knowledge' suddenly becomes obsolete (and 'wrong').

The funny thing is how many physicians, who are well-aware that we have had many such 180-degree turns in medical history, fall for the illusion that we are somehow just NOW anointed with the ultimate knowledge, and now know everything there is, in its final form - so anything that runs contrary to that is heresy and needs censored as 'medical misinformation'.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
piller
Posting leader...
Posts: 15188
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by piller »

As one of my Professors said, if we were simple enough to understand ourselves, we would be too simple to understand ourselves.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31932
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by AJMD429 »

piller wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:23 pm As one of my Professors said, if we were simple enough to understand ourselves, we would be too simple to understand ourselves.
I like that. The surgeon who took my gallbladder out as a friend of mine and told me saying that my by my age I think I thought I would have heard by now but hadn't:

" it's far more likely to see an atypical presentation of a common disorder, than it is to see a typical presentation of an uncommon disorder."
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
piller
Posting leader...
Posts: 15188
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by piller »

Makes sense.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
User avatar
David
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 792
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 9:46 pm

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by David »

-> IF <- this is true seems hard to believe they will be able to keep this under raps, I did say IF - I have nothing else.

Cardiologist Says 30 Percent of Vaccinated Pilots Would Fail Health Screenings Due to Vaccine Injuries
https://amgreatness.com/2022/04/21/card ... -injuries/
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31932
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by AJMD429 »

.
I know this link I will put up has more to do with the overall covid response and medical censorship, with the specific citing of the vaccine as the only option as what could be the last straw for the camel, but I think it's pertinent.

I have had a dozen or so patients tell me they have had "should I get a vaccine/booster?" conversations with their specialist and while saying aloud "the CDC recommends it, and I could hardly go against that," yet at the same time making large obvious hand-gestures like you make to tell someone backing up a truck that they must stop because they are about to hit something, or doing an obvious ' thumbs down' gesture and shaking their head...

A Warning From Shanghai - by Jay Bhattacharya
https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/a-warn ... m-shanghai

I realize the benefit may well exceed the risk for some, but that isn't my point; the point is how intimidated some physicians are they are afraid to voice any dissent on a matter that at the very least has created a range and spectrum of opinions.

I guess if Pfizer patents an anti-cancer drug that is middle-of-the-road in safety or effectiveness we will be expected to recommend it air everyone with no honest discussion of risks and benefits.

In a few of the cases I know about the physician verbalized "I can't put in writing that you should avoid the vaccine but I would strongly urge that you do."

Even discussing a video like this, which merely explores whether or not the spike protein might be a mechanism we need to be wary of in terms of side effects, is enough to get one labeled part of the "vast right wing conspiracy"... :roll:

MoBeen on the spike as a potential problem - https://youtu.be/BzEigubrO5A

That should frighten everyone, whether individually they are in favor of vaccination or not.

But it fits the plan:

Reason Magazine:

https://youtu.be/Cd0OeC6Syd4

Russell Brand:

On medical fascism - https://youtu.be/cBH005RSqh4

On the Great Reset - https://youtu.be/tzIPJfqFETU

...and Jordan Peterson (as usual) gets to the foundation of it all...

https://youtu.be/AwOtOfrpcVw
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11808
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by Grizz »

if someone can be forced to take a medical experiment
against the Nuremburg code and the U.S. CFR's EXPLICITLY FORBIDDING ANYONE FROM EVER FORCING A MEDICAL EXPERIMENT ON ANYBODY,

THEN>

NO ONE CAN FORBID ANYBODY FROM FORCING US TO ACCEPT CANCER TREATMENTS, WHETHER OR NOT WE HAVE CANCER.

NO ONE CAN FORBID ANYONE FROM FORCING US TO ACCEPT AN EXPERIMENTAL ORGAN,

OR WE CAN BE FORCED TO ALLOW ORGANS TO BE STOLEN FROM US AGAINST OUR WILL.

[dear naysayers, there is ample space on the back of this form for a response]

User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31932
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by AJMD429 »

.
More keeps coming out on the fraud and the excess mortality from the 'response' to CoVid...

https://rumble.com/vwjmjm-bombshell-nao ... minal.html

Of course whenever a well-loved 'leftist' starts seeing the light, the left character-assassinates even their own... :D :roll:
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11808
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by Grizz »

FOR EXAMPLE:
The clinical data for Pfizer's vaccine is hidden in one appendix (read below), which contains 1,291 unfavorable side effects in alphabetical order. Let's have a look at some of the negative consequences of taking the Pfizer vaccine that begin with the letter "a":

1p36 deletion syndrome; 2-Hydroxyglutaric aciduria; 5'nucleotidase increased; Acoustic neuritis;Acquired C1 inhibitor deficiency;Acquired epidermolysis bullosa;Acquired epileptic aphasia;Acute cutaneous lupus erythematosus;Acute disseminated encephalomyelitis;Acute encephalitis with refractory, repetitive partial seizures;Acute febrile neutrophilic dermatosis;Acute flaccid myelitis;Acute haemorrhagic leukoencephalitis;Acute haemorrhagic oedema of infancy;Acute kidney injury;Acute macular outer retinopathy;Acute motor axonal neuropathy;Acute motor-sensory axonal neuropathy;Acute myocardial infarction;Acute respiratory distress syndrome;Acute respiratory failure;Addison's disease;Administration site thrombosis;Administration site vasculitis;Adrenal thrombosis;Adverse event following immunisation;Ageusia;Agranulocytosis;Air embolism;Alanine aminotransferase abnormal;Alanine aminotransferase increased;Alcoholic seizure;Allergic bronchopulmonary mycosis;Allergic oedema;Alloimmune hepatitis;Alopecia areata;Alpers disease;Alveolar proteinosis;Ammonia abnormal;Ammonia increased;Amniotic cavity infection; Amygdalohippocampectomy; Amyloid arthropathy; Amyloidosis; Amyloidosis senile; Anaphylactic reaction; Anaphylactic shock; Anaphylactic transfusion reaction; Anaphylactoid reaction; Anaphylactoid shock; Anaphylactoid syndrome of pregnancy;Angioedema;Angiopathic neuropathy;Ankylosing spondylitis; Anosmia;Antiacetylcholine receptor antibody positive;Anti-actin antibody positive;Anti-aquaporin-4 antibody positive;Anti-basal ganglia antibody positive;Anti-cyclic citrullinated peptide antibody positive;Anti-epithelial antibody positive;Anti-erythrocyte antibody positive;Anti-exosome complex antibody positive;Anti-GAD antibody negative;Anti-GAD antibody positive;Anti-ganglioside antibody positive;Antigliadin antibody positive;Anti-glomerular basement membrane antibody positive;Anti-glomerular basement membrane disease;Anti-glycyl-tRNA synthetase antibody positive;Anti-HLA antibody test positive;Anti-IA2 antibody positive;Anti-insulin antibody increased;Anti-insulin antibody positive;Anti-insulin receptor antibody increased;Anti-insulin receptor antibody positive;Anti-interferon antibody negative;Anti-interferon antibody positive;Anti-islet cell antibody positive;Antimitochondrial antibody positive;Anti-muscle specific kinase antibody positive;Anti-myelin-associated glycoprotein antibodies positive;Anti-myelin-associated glycoprotein associated polyneuropathy;Antimyocardial antibody positive;Anti-neuronal antibody positive;Antineutrophil cytoplasmic antibody increased;Antineutrophil cytoplasmic antibody positive;Anti-neutrophil cytoplasmic antibody positive vasculitis;Anti-NMDA antibody positive;Antinuclear antibody increased;Antinuclear antibody positive;Antiphospholipid antibodies positive;Antiphospholipid syndrome;Anti-platelet antibody positive;Anti-prothrombin antibody positive;Antiribosomal P antibody positive;Anti-RNA polymerase III antibody positive;Anti-saccharomyces cerevisiae antibody test positive;Anti-sperm antibody positive;Anti-SRP antibody positive;Antisynthetase syndrome;Anti-thyroid antibody positive;Anti-transglutaminase antibody increased;Anti-VGCC antibody positive;Anti-VGKC antibody positive;Anti-vimentin antibody positive;Antiviral prophylaxis;Antiviral treatment;Anti-zinc transporter 8 antibody positive;Aortic embolus;Aortic thrombosis;Aortitis;Aplasia pure red cell;Aplastic anaemia;Application site thrombosis;Application site vasculitis;Arrhythmia;Arterial bypass occlusion;Arterial bypass thrombosis;Arterial thrombosis;Arteriovenous fistula thrombosis;Arteriovenous graft site stenosis;Arteriovenous graft thrombosis;Arteritis;Arteritis coronary;Arthralgia;Arthritis;Arthritis enteropathic;Ascites;Aseptic cavernous sinus thrombosis;Aspartate aminotransferase abnormal;Aspartate aminotransferas increased;Aspartate-glutamate-transporter deficiency;AST to platelet ratio index increased;AST/ALT ratio abnormal;Asthma;Asymptomatic COVID-19;Ataxia;Atheroembolism;Atonic seizures;Atrial thrombosis;Atrophic thyroiditis;Atypical benign partial epilepsy;Atypical pneumonia;Aura;Autoantibody positive;Autoimmune anaemia;Autoimmune aplastic anaemia;Autoimmune arthritis;Autoimmune blistering disease;Autoimmune cholangitis;Autoimmune colitis;Autoimmune demyelinating disease;Autoimmune dermatitis;Autoimmune disorder;Autoimmune encephalopathy;Autoimmune endocrine disorder;Autoimmune enteropathy;Autoimmune eye disorder;Autoimmune haemolytic anaemia;Autoimmune heparin-induced thrombocytopenia;Autoimmune hepatitis;Autoimmune hyperlipidaemia;Autoimmune hypothyroidism;Autoimmune inner ear disease;Autoimmune lung disease;Autoimmune lymphoproliferative syndrome;Autoimmune myocarditis;Autoimmune myositis;Autoimmune nephritis;Autoimmune neuropathy;Autoimmune neutropenia;Autoimmune pancreatitis;Autoimmune pancytopenia;Autoimmune pericarditis;Autoimmune retinopathy;Autoimmune thyroid disorder;Autoimmune thyroiditis;Autoimmune uveitis;Autoinflammation with infantile enterocolitis;Autoinflammatory disease;Automatism epileptic;Autonomic nervous system imbalance;Autonomic seizure;Axial spondyloarthritis;Axillary vein thrombosis;Axonal and demyelinating polyneuropathy;Axonal neuropathy;

You get my drift. There really are 9 pages of small print adverse effects.

User avatar
KWK
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1389
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:31 am
Location: U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by KWK »

AJMD429 wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:23 pmthe point is how intimidated some physicians are they are afraid to voice any dissent on a matter that at the very least has created a range and spectrum of opinions
Interesting. Despite that observation, I do find mainstream reports (eg. Wall St Jnl) that many doctors are not convinced the data shows boosters are necessary, except with a small subset of the population.
piller
Posting leader...
Posts: 15188
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by piller »

I am still giving the vaccine and boosters to those who request them. Having had a series of mini-strokes from the vaccine, I will not be taking it again. I only took it because I couldn't get a job without it. There are still people who are convinced that it is necessary.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
User avatar
earlmck
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3423
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:10 am
Location: pert-neer middle of Oregon

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by earlmck »

Here in my state of Oregon the Health Authority quit handing out press releases touting the vaccines but their web site is still giving out statistics showing the vaccines give some protection from catching Covid and quite a lot of protection from getting a serious case. But I read that the British Health Security Agency has quit publishing their statistics because they now show the vaccines have gone into negative efficacy territory for every age group. Only explanations I can come up with for the discrepancy are that either our Health Authority is lying to us or Oregon got better vaccines than the UK. And I guess a couple of Canadian Provinces that keep good stats are showing similar to the UK.

Meanwhile I'm sticking with my monthly "booster" with the Ivermectin. I'd just as soon skip an invasion of the spike proteins even if the new ones aren't as bad as the older ones.

One of my shootin' buddies couldn't make our April buffalo shoot because he is having trouble doing anything and is waiting on some procedure to unclog some arteries. He initially had a vaccine injury that had cut down his ability to do anything strenuous after the second shot. And then he took the booster! And then developed a heart arrhythmia that the heart doc admitted might have been exacerbated by the vaccine "but you'd have developed it eventually anyway". And now this. I think he's the only one of my friends or family to be injured by the vaccine but I really don't have that many friends/family who got the vaccine. Lots of Ivermectin users amongst my circle.
The greatest patriot...
is he who heals the most gullies.
Patrick Henry
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31932
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by AJMD429 »

.
https://youtu.be/G__wIceF_hw

On excess deaths and the CoVid response.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11808
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by Grizz »

POR EJEMPLO:
Screenshot 2022-05-01 091400.png

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31932
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by AJMD429 »

Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11808
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by Grizz »

that PLUS it is strictly illegal to force anyone to take any kind of medical experiment. It is a federal crime, and everyone in that lineup needs jail time. I keep mis-remembering to look up the CFRs, [LAUGHABLY called the code of federal regulations]

it is strictly against the Nuremberg Code, the outcome of the Nuremberg Trials which hung a number of abusers of mankind. the good old days maybe.

http://www.cirp.org/library/ethics/nuremberg/
User avatar
KWK
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1389
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:31 am
Location: U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by KWK »

Grizz wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:59 am The clinical data for Pfizer's vaccine is hidden in one appendix (read below), which contains 1,291 unfavorable side effects in alphabetical order. Let's have a look at some of the negative consequences of taking the Pfizer vaccine that begin with the letter "a":

... Alcoholic seizure...

... There really are 9 pages of small print adverse effects.
Quite amusing that post!

It was not established if these would have occurred without the injection; this is just a raw data dump. How about the corresponding list for all the maladies that struck the people in the placebo group, for comparison?

As for sinister, "hidden" data, the CDC has a list of verified adverse reactions.
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31932
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by AJMD429 »

.
The problem is unless you really look around you get to choose from two sources, either the CDC which is corrupt and has clearly distorted the data for political ends, or data dumps which sometimes are misused to make it look like the vaccine is worse than it is.

Personally I don't care if the vaccine is the safest one ever invented and has zero side effects and is 100% effective. Individuals still have the right to choose whether to take it, and anyone trying to force another one to take it, or prevent them from taking it if they want to, is a criminal. That goes doubly-so if they work for the government because the government claims a monopoly on the use of force.

The thing that is unique about this vaccine is that all of the normal standards were waived in that it did not have to get tested the way one would normally test something before mass administration, and then so much more data was distorted and fabricated than even in the most corrupt big pharma drug releases. All of the so-called authorities from the CDC and the FDA to the local gynecologists, were claiming that the vaccines had been "tested in pregnant women" and found "safe and effective", but it appears that the pregnant women tested were actually mice, in France, and they were only a couple dozen of them and none of them were allowed to actually give birth to live young. The "study" lasted a couple months.

That would be enough for me to be suspicious, but then when the government and big tech come along and actively censor anyone trying to discuss such things, then the government tries to threaten the licenses of any health care professional who raises any concerns, that pretty much is the last straw for me when it comes to belief in any integrity in the process.

We can spend the next three or four decades quibbling about details about what side effects were real and what weren't and what side effects were justified by the circumstances and what weren't, and whether the vaccine was even effective enough to justify it's release. I don't think anyone on either side is going to convince anyone on the other side of anything, because as Samuel Clements said "...it's a lot easier to fool somebody than it is to make them realize they've been fooled...", and both sides clearly feel like the other side is the one that has been fooled.

The fundamental question isn't whether the vaccine was safe enough or effective enough, because that is a continuum and every drug and every vaccine lies someplace on that continuum, which changes with the individual patient and with public health circumstances.

The fundamental question is whether it is morally or legally appropriate for individual 'A' to essentially point a gun at the head of individual 'B' and say "...you have to take this medicine or I will kill you...". Granted, sometimes the force applied was not the threat of death, but 'merely' the threat of loss of job or ability to travel or shop or earn a livelihood or continue with licensure, but such public policy is entirely inappropriate for a constitutional republic.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
User avatar
Old Savage
Posting leader...
Posts: 16687
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:43 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by Old Savage »

Had a patient come in for a regular check up reporting she had been to Urgent Care who then sent her to the ER. The complaint was half her tongue had swollen. The diagnosis was angioedema according to her report. This occurred shortly after her booster shot. The ER doc blamed it on a regular medication she takes rather than the booster.
In the High Desert of Southern Calif. ..."on the cutting edge of going back in time"...

Image
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11808
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by Grizz »

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1520a
Prohibited activitiesThe Secretary of Defense may not conduct (directly or by contract)—
(1) any test or experiment involving the use of a chemical agent or biological agent on a civilian population; or
(2) any other testing of a chemical agent or biological agent on human subjects.
(c) Informed consent required

The Secretary of Defense may conduct a test or experiment described in subsection (b) only if informed consent to the testing was obtained from each human subject in advance of the testing on that subject.
informed consent must be obtained before hand and recorded and published, otherwise the perps are criminal operators.
(e) “Biological agent” definedIn this section, the term “biological agent” means any micro-organism (including bacteria, viruses, fungi, rickettsiac, or protozoa), pathogen, or infectious substance, and any naturally occurring, bioengineered, or synthesized component of any such micro-organism, pathogen, or infectious substance, whatever its origin or method of production, that is capable of causing—
(1) death, disease, or other biological malfunction in a human, an animal, a plant, or another living organism;
(2) deterioration of food, water, equipment, supplies, or materials of any kind; or
(3) deleterious alteration of the environment.


☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ etc. †
piller
Posting leader...
Posts: 15188
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by piller »

I am on long term anticoagulant therapy now. I am finally free of the T. I. A. attacks caused by the CoVid vaccine. At least 50 in the last year.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11808
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by Grizz »

VAERS Database Hijacked: Vaccine Data Tracker Compromised, Adverse Events Deleted

Albert Benavides Joins the Stew Peters Show to discuss the truth behind covering the vaccine genocide of children.

Follow Stew on Gab: https://gab.com/RealStewPeters

See all of Stew's content at https://StewPeters.TV

Watch full episodes here: https://redvoicemedia.net/stew-full-shows

Support our efforts to keep truth alive:
https://www.redvoicemedia.com/support-red-voice-media/

Get Dr. Zelenko's Anti-Shedding Treatment, NOW AVAILABLE FOR KIDS: http://zStackProtocol.com
User avatar
KWK
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1389
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:31 am
Location: U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by KWK »

piller wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 1:46 pm I am on long term anticoagulant therapy now. I am finally free of the T. I. A. attacks caused by the CoVid vaccine. At least 50 in the last year.
I've heard of clotting soon after vaccination (although it's worse with covid itself), but not of clotting over the course of a year. What mechanism is proposed for it a year out?
User avatar
KWK
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1389
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:31 am
Location: U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by KWK »

Grizz wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:55 am VAERS Database Hijacked: Vaccine Data Tracker Compromised, Adverse Events Deleted
I've had a hunch VAERS is being filled with fabricated events, both by the anti-vax crowd and by foreign troll farms. It's a wide open data base.
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31932
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by AJMD429 »

.
Spike protein seems to be produced off and on for a LONG time after vaccination in many people. Evidently the mRNA can be sequestered and read later. Plus it penetrates into tissues most 'vaccines' wouldn't enter, so the antigen (spike protein) gets expressed in places where the body isn't prepared to deal with it the normal way.

There is also some similarity to the Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome we see with chronic Lyme disease, Epstein-Barr virus, and those with genetic predisposition to mold hypersensitivity. The other 'syndrome' that seems to have things in common is Mast Cell Activation Syndrome. Essentially the immune system gets stuck in between the 'generic' emergency-response system that surrounds and isolates a problem, and the 'specific' type response that happens once a virus or bacterium or foreign body is identified and antibodies are used versus general inflammation.

There is an update on managing the chronic problems post-vaccine that will come out this evening (5/25/22) as their "Wednesday update" on odysee.com from the FLCCC group. It may also be linked to on FLCCC.net, and sometimes isn't "up" until Thursday late in the day.

https://odysee.com/@FrontlineCovid19Cri ... Alliance:c
teaser on it - https://odysee.com/@FrontlineCovid19Cri ... ol-promo:c
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
User avatar
KWK
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1389
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:31 am
Location: U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by KWK »

AJMD429 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:35 amSpike protein seems to be produced off and on for a LONG time after vaccination in many people. Evidently the mRNA can be sequestered and read later. Plus it penetrates into tissues most 'vaccines' wouldn't enter, so the antigen (spike protein) gets expressed in places where the body isn't prepared to deal with it the normal way.
Interesting. They had a lot of trouble getting the fragile mRNA strand to survive long enough to get into a cell, and mRNA is usually soon discarded in a cell. I wonder what's up here. Given the novelty of the technique, it would not surprise me if there is indeed a glitch in the process.
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31932
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by AJMD429 »

KWK wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 4:11 pm
AJMD429 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:35 amSpike protein seems to be produced off and on for a LONG time after vaccination in many people. Evidently the mRNA can be sequestered and read later. Plus it penetrates into tissues most 'vaccines' wouldn't enter, so the antigen (spike protein) gets expressed in places where the body isn't prepared to deal with it the normal way.
Interesting. They had a lot of trouble getting the fragile mRNA strand to survive long enough to get into a cell, and mRNA is usually soon discarded in a cell. I wonder what's up here. Given the novelty of the technique, it would not surprise me if there is indeed a glitch in the process.
Yeah, although I applaud in principle to bypassing much of the red tape that Trump allowed at the onset of the pandemic, there is a risk associated when you start bypassing the legitimate safety testing portion of things.

My biggest hope is that we at least are finally allowed censorship-free investigation so we can learn from it. The technique of getting the patient to manufacture their own vaccine antigen, which can happen within a matter of hours or days, versus doing it in in the laboratory, which requires months to years, was certainly a fascinating concept and could still have some potential benefit if we learn to control it.

Dr. Mobeen Syed on odysee.com and rumble.com is someone I greatly respect as he has explored these issues. Partly because he started out as a very serious pro-vaccine advocate, and was willing to look at the data and change his mind. It's not like he was just some crazy anti-vaxxer that selectively looked at stuff to reinforce his position.

Here is one recent discussion on the long-term inflammation cascade.

https://odysee.com/@DrMobeenSyed:1/why- ... -chronic:a

And an older discussion on Spike protein.

https://odysee.com/@DrMobeenSyed:1/s1-a ... -vaccine:3

Vaccines have to have two components. One is an 'antigen', which is the part we are trying to make the immune system develop a response to, and the other part is an 'adjuvant', which is necessary to convince the immune system that the antigen is worth developing a response to. Any large complicated molecule is potentially an antigen. Think if you were a security person patrolling a large building and you found things in the hallway. That chewing gum wrapper, or a screwdriver, or a pencil, would probably not arouse suspicion, but a large box with wires and batteries just might make you worry it could be a bomb. Similarly, large and complex molecules, particularly fats and proteins or combinations thereof, are usually needed to be viewed as potential antigens. However, the body is loaded with such molecules that are partly of our own manufacture, and partly things that we have ingested that made it through the filtration mechanisms of the GI tract (which is where degradation of that system in people sensitive to and exposed to gluten comes into play), or things that have been injected to us or made it through defects in our skin. There is an incredibly complex and still poorly understood set of mechanisms where the body develops a memory to recognize things that are potentially 'self' and 'non-self', and part of that involves looking for suspicious entities similar to troublesome ones contacted in the past. That is where the 'adjuvant' comes in. In the case of vaccines, sometimes we will use part of a commonly recognized virus or bacteria as an adjuvant (that is why diphtheria is usually given along with tetanus), because we know the immune system will react to it, and anything attached to it, as a potential enemy. Other times aluminum is used, and sometimes the vaccine makers won't disclose to anyone other than the patent office what the adjuvant actually is. There have been cases where adjuvants like sphingolipids were used that resembled the lipids in brain tissue, and the resultant (anthrax, I believe) vaccines caused dangerous and sometimes lethal neurologic reactions, so we are playing with fire and sometimes the consequences are not immediately apparent and yet can be devastating. That's why normally vaccines have been subject to lengthy trials an animals, and then slow introduction with careful observation when it came to humans. Unfortunately, just like with 'gun control' after a 'mass shooting', fear takes over and people make risk benefit decisions that often prove to be unwise. When big business with their profit motives combines forces with big government and their lust for power and money, it is a recipe for disaster.

My personal opinion is that there were several mistakes we should have learned from now with the mRNA vaccines.

1. We used the spike protein as an adjuvant as well as antigen, which made for rapid and convenient production, but the spike protein was probably too inflammatory for that purpose. You want something that will create an immune response, but not a 'cytokine storm'.

2. We lost control of the amount administered. Normally when it is produced in a lab you can give the patient an exact amount of the antigen and adjuvant, and know that they will be eliminated from the body in a fairly short period of time. With the mRNA vaccines, although there is a theoretic cap on how many times the mRNA will be read, it isn't very precise.

3. We lost control over where the antigen would be presented in the body. With normal vaccines we give the antigen and it goes from subcutaneous or muscle tissue through the lymph system and predominantly winds up in the nearest lymph nodes to be processed by the immune system. That is one way normal infections would enter the body, the other way being via the respiratory tract. There also have been vaccines administered nasally to mimic that mechanism. In the case of the mRNA vaccines, the material often bypassed the lymph nodes and got into myriad other tissues throughout the body, resulting in antigen being presented in abnormal places such as the cardiac tissue, kidneys, endothelium, central nervous system, and gonads.

4. We lost control over the time frame the antigen would be presented within. The ramp up of production appears to be much faster than an ordinary infection, with the entire body potentially having an immune reaction within hours or days versus days to weeks. Consequences of that are unknown, but appear to be potentially catastrophic. The viral infection, like many, seems to be able to produce intermittent and long-term antigen, but ordinarily we expect our vaccinations not to do that. In this case the vaccinated patients also apparently sequester the mRNA in some cases in may use it to produce spike protein months later, and again in unpredictable places. Contrary to what was initially assumed, there is some evidence that the mRNA actually can utilize the reverse transcriptase mechanism to incorporate into DNA and thus become a permanent part of the genome of that infected tissue.

5. We also changed the spike protein slightly, ostensibly to improve performance of the vaccine, but again, we really don't know if there was a downside to that or not.

6. Finally, and most importantly, all of the regulatory agencies that are supposed to protect public safety seem to have been subject to 'regulatory capture' in the sense that a large degree of their funding is proportional to vaccine sales, as well as the other more typical political corruption of ordinary lobbying by big pharma. These regulatory agencies clearly shirked their duty. Keep in mind that Pfizer holds the world record for the largest fine ever levied for healthcare fraud, so it's not like we are dealing with companies known for their level of integrity. Combine that with ambitious politicians, and a 'news' media which thrives on panicking the citizens, and it was pretty easy to convince people that 'misinformation' was suddenly a worse danger than the virus itself. So ironically, censorship became the norm, and misinformation from Big pharma and regulatory agencies became the 'TRUTH' that no one could question. So I had pregnant young women who were at little to no risk of adverse outcomes from covid, who were told by their gynecologists that "the covid vaccines have been studied in pregnant women and found to be both safe and effective". WOW.... talk about misinformation...!!!!??? They would be told this without even a disclaimer. Pfizer promised to release all of the data in 75 years, but after enough whistleblowers and leaks and legal pressure started releasing it about a year after the vaccines have been started. It turns out that the "testing on pregnant women that showed the vaccines to be safe and effective" was done over a time span of just a couple months, in France, using a few dozen MICE, and in fact the fetal mice were taken before birth for study. Yet when those pregnant women had strokes or miscarriages or fetal malformations, they were told it was clearly not the vaccine. Funny that would be the case, because if I would prescribe them some fairly ordinary medicine for cholesterol or whatever, that we normally don't use in pregnancy, and they had a stroke or a miscarriage or a fetal malformation, that prescription would certainly be scrutinized. The double standard and hypocrisy has been astounding.

So regardless of where one stands on the overall issue of vaccines, or mRNA vaccines in particular, I think it's reasonable to say we still have much to learn, and need to quit sweeping things under the rug.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
piller
Posting leader...
Posts: 15188
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by piller »

KWK wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:43 am
piller wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 1:46 pm I am on long term anticoagulant therapy now. I am finally free of the T. I. A. attacks caused by the CoVid vaccine. At least 50 in the last year.
I've heard of clotting soon after vaccination (although it's worse with covid itself), but not of clotting over the course of a year. What mechanism is proposed for it a year out?
So far, no one knows. No one is interested in finding out why because I have more genetic anomalies than most Doctors see in a lifetime. My chart at U.T. Southwestern Medical Center has the notation "Herd of Zebras".
Something in the J&J vaccine triggered the reaction. While hospitalized, blood draws failed because my blood clotted in the needle. They had to start me on heparin, then transition me to one of the only two oral anticoagulants which are not dependent on the 2C19 enzyme of the Cytochrome P450 system in the liver. That enzyme is not coded into my DNA. There are 2 others missing also. Conspiracy theorists have claimed I am decended from space aliens. :roll:
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
User avatar
KWK
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1389
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:31 am
Location: U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by KWK »

piller wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:08 pmSomething in the J&J vaccine triggered the reaction.
Ah, while rare, that is a recognized risk with the J&J and A-Z vaccines. Multiple events over a year is a new one to me, but having taken Moderna, I didn't follow the J&J news. Sorry to hear about your woes.
Post Reply