Ivermectin Musings....

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Grizz
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by Grizz »

THE survival rate is 99%, whether someone has a fake vaccine, or no fake vaccine, the survival rate is 99%. Anyone saying the fakevax is saving lives or prevents sickness is, you know.
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THE SURVIVAL RATE OF THOSE WHO GET SICK IS NINETY-NINE PERCENT

the only pandemic is the one of lies, and fearmongering. that is rampant.

but all the studies and all the palaver about them is meaningless in light of the fact that, VAXED OR NOT,
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THE SURVIVAL RATE IS 99% so LET'S GET OVER IT ALREADY
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† † †
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by AJMD429 »

.

I just heard a radio commercial that said "Fact - the vaccine saves lives, and IS effective against the Delta Variant..." paid for by the Health and Human Services department. Bad enough to waste tax-money advertising for Pfizer, but using blatant LIES to do so really is irritating.

Remember - governments have ALWAYS played off of fear, and never hesitated to use misinformation to create that fear.
"Never let a crisis go to waste..." :roll: :evil:
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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I came across this in today's Wall Street Journal, taken from a book review. Above, I've wondered aloud here along these lines:
The first is the nihilism of the internet... Sensational rumors, salacious images and outrage-driven social media pile-ons are clickbait; truth is at best a secondary consideration. Some see the confusion that results as a political opportunity. State actors deploy bots to soak social media in conspiracy theories—less to promote certain electoral outcomes than to “induce uncertainty, disorientation, and attendant cynicism.” The point is to “exhaust your critical thinking,” as Garry Kasparov has put it, and produce “epistemic helplessness.” Such cynicism and despair undermine our capacity for thinking together and make republican self-government harder.
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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Grizz wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:55 pm
THE SURVIVAL RATE OF THOSE WHO GET SICK IS NINETY-NINE PERCENT
The CDC offers these numbers:
Studies so far show that vaccinated people are 8 times less likely to be infected and 25 times less likely to experience hospitalization or death.
These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. If "get sick" means shows serious symptoms, it may be that once you progress that far, the odds are the same, but the odds of getting that far are worse for the unvaccinated. Similarly, there's also vagueness in the CDC's "to be infected" number.
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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KWK wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:29 pm
I came across this in today's Wall Street Journal, taken from a book review. Above, I've wondered aloud here along these lines:
The first is the nihilism of the internet... Sensational rumors, salacious images and outrage-driven social media pile-ons are clickbait; truth is at best a secondary consideration. Some see the confusion that results as a political opportunity. State actors deploy bots to soak social media in conspiracy theories—less to promote certain electoral outcomes than to “induce uncertainty, disorientation, and attendant cynicism.” The point is to “exhaust your critical thinking,” as Garry Kasparov has put it, and produce “epistemic helplessness.” Such cynicism and despair undermine our capacity for thinking together and make republican self-government harder.
That is so true. Governments historically have ALWAYS tried to use panic and fear to motivate citizens to surrender money and power.
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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KWK wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:36 pm
Grizz wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:55 pm
THE SURVIVAL RATE OF THOSE WHO GET SICK IS NINETY-NINE PERCENT
The CDC offers these numbers:
Studies so far show that vaccinated people are 8 times less likely to be infected and 25 times less likely to experience hospitalization or death.
These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. If "get sick" means shows serious symptoms, it may be that once you progress that far, the odds are the same, but the odds of getting that far are worse for the unvaccinated. Similarly, there's also vagueness in the CDC's "to be infected" number.
Yep. One of the problems in trying to 'prevent' anything very rare (CoVid deaths OR Vaccine-related injuries) is that you have to closely study tens of thousands of people, excluding all possible confounding variables, to show that your intervention (vaccines, ivermectin, whatever) works, or conversely, is dangerous.

I find it fascinating that the CDC 'data' are so conflicted versus much of the rest of the world. Not sure I trust it.
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

Post by AJMD429 »

.

There's more and more data like this coming out -

https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz ... ntal-shots

https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz ... vaccinated

I think with the track record of our government misleading us, and being in bed with industry, the European data really needs to be taken seriously.
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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Okay, I took the bait and went to this one, where the first chart is summarized as:
In fact, The U.K., which posts the most comprehensive granular weekly data every Thursday, shows that COVID cases per capita are more common among the vaccinated than the unvaccinated in most age groups... What this clearly means is that its protection wears off after a few months, especially for those who need it the most.
Following their reference paper, one quickly learns the data does not support their conclusion.

The Blaze wants you to believe people who took the vaccine are more likely to get Covid than those who did not. However, "unvaccinated" includes people who've already been infected, and there is data elsewhere in the world which indicates immunity from prior infection is stronger than immunity from the vaccines.

The UK report shows they are watching who has which antibodies, vaccine vs infected. I didn't find infection rates by sero-positive group, and they state that for the unvaccinated, "data on the risk and severity of reinfections is still lacking."

They note that it's becoming impossible to estimate pandemic outcomes, vaccines versus a completely natural pandemic; "the no-vaccination scenario has now reached the end of its epidemic curve." With multiple strains around, the issue is further clouded. However, their bottom line is:
Estimates suggest that 127,500 deaths and 24,144,000 infections have been prevented as a result of the COVID-19 vaccination programme, up to 24 September.
For whatever their reason, The Blaze didn't bother to mention that.

On the other hand, the UK report does not mean that in the end (which is a ways off) the vaccines will have prevented all the deaths of the current estimate. The variants combined with waning effectiveness (vaccine and natural) may leave them the same death tally. Only time (and mathematical simulations) will tell.
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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.

I think it is quite legitimate that they included people who have had covid among the 'unvaccinated'. Partly, because they are indeed unvaccinated, and especially because the political and corporate forces that are trying to mandate vaccines for the unvaccinated are very definitely including covid survivors as mere 'unvaccinated' individuals.

One of my patients told me she told her employer that she was vaccinated, and when they asked her which vaccine she got, she said "I got the natural one...". When her boss looked puzzled for a minute, she finally figured it out and smiled and said "Well, I'll check the box here that says you were vaccinated, and I'll just leave the vaccine manufacturer part blank if that's okay..." Evidently her boss isn't a fan of their corporations vaccine mandate either.
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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doesn't matter which details of which minutia anyone champions, the net result is that vaxed or natural, the survival rate is 99%. what's all the bellyaching about, eh? people dispute all kinds of details, as though it's a card game, meanwhile referring to a medical experiment with no government sanction yet, as a vaccine. I don't believe it has risen to such a height so far. but i doubt that's the trump card. LOL
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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Grizz wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:23 pm
the survival rate is 99%. what's all the bellyaching about, eh?
Well, in a country of 336 million, 99% survival is still 3.4 million dead--nothing to sneeze at?

Actually, your 99% number is too pessimistic. That may be for those who already show symptoms. I think the infection death rate is more like 0.4%. The CDC's data (0.6%) is dated May, but early this year they were slow to acknowledge the actual infection rate is far beyond what they had been stating. They were changing their tune due to the data coming in from blood testing in the general population.
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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AJMD429 wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:40 pm
I think it is quite legitimate that they included people who have had covid among the 'unvaccinated'. Partly, because they are indeed unvaccinated, and especially because the political and corporate forces that are trying to mandate vaccines for the unvaccinated are very definitely including covid survivors as mere 'unvaccinated' individuals.
Two wrongs make a right? The feds treating covid survivors as unvaccinated and thus subject to their (surely illegal) vaccination mandate is clearly wrong. The evidence I've seen says survivors have better immunity (but the numbers are scarce).

I think it wrong for The Blaze to have presented their claim so. People who have been neither infected nor vaccinated will look at that rot and think they might as well forgo the vaccine. From their position, they should want to know if their odds are better with the vaccine or without, and the phase 3 trials and the data out of Israel clearly show the vaccine is the safer route (at least in the short run). If they are already infected, it's a different calculus, and I see no reason for them to take it. There clearly are two very different types of unvaccinated, and The Blaze completely ignored that.
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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True but the majority of unvaccinated people I encounter now are previously infected, because the virus has been around so long that nearly everyone has been exposed. Like you said, many who have survived infection had an infection so mild that didn't even know they had it. From the data I've seen you are also right about the overall death rate being much lower than 1%. I think it's something like one out of 4,000 for the virus and maybe one out of 40,000 for the vaccine overall. On the other hand we have good treatment for the virus; I would be curious to see what the survival rate works out to for people who are aggressively treated in a timely manner.
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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AJMD429 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:01 am
... it's something like one out of 4,000 for the virus...
I wouldn't care to argue against 1:400, but the reported US death rate is already at 1:450 and climbing. Yes, I know "dying with covid" is claimed, but numerous developed countries report a similar death rate to the US, and there is independent data to back it. The Financial Times of London has been plotting total deaths (which is reasonably unambiguous) against the mean line of the last several years, and in all the Western countries, the increase in deaths comes close to the reported death toll for covid. I don't see any other possible cause for this big bump than the Wu-flu.

With deaths and new cases trending down and vaccinations not rising so fast, I'd also agree the great majority of the population here must have antibodies of one sort by now. How long each form will give protection will be interesting to see.
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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As much as a third of the population appears to have had CoVid by now, or at least a fourth. That would be close to 100 million or so. If 1/4,000 of them died DUE to CoVid that would be 50,000. So if you assume 100% of 'CoVid deaths' are actually caused by the virus, then you are right.

Judging by what my friends who work in hospitals tell me it is more likely something around 10% of deaths actually due to covid versus other collapsing comorbidities, or patients who had a life expectancy otherwise less than a year. Not that that's negligible, but a high percentage of the vaccine related deaths, which also have to be looked at in a "did the vaccine really cause the death or was it going to happen anyway" contact, are appearing in young people with quite a lot more years of life lost.

I know that the average age of death of someone classified as dying from covid is higher than the average life expectancy, but it would be interesting to see that same information concerning vaccine related deaths.

The other huge mitigating factor is whether or not the vaccine injury or illness was treated, versus whether the covid was treated. In most cases the covid is not treated adequately at all, because we wait until the patient is near death before we start doing anything, and in most cases of vaccine related injury, the treatment is started earlier if the injury is a blood clot or stroke, but timing is so critical that the reality is we treat vaccine related injuries too late as well. And the ideal world, we would be treating covid prophylactically so fewer people got clinically ill, and the ones who did get clinically ill would be treated far more aggressively so only a tiny faction would become ill enough to be going to the hospital where the odds of death start increasing sharply. The same for the vaccine; we might be able to significantly reduce whatever risk there is from the vaccine, by implementing a fairly basic prophylactic or protective regimen surrounding the time of vaccination. Unfortunately, the healthcare bureaucracy won't even admit that the vaccine has any risks, so studying any attempt to risk-mitigate will never happen. At least not in this country. Certainly Nations where the drug companies have less clout are starting to ease up on mandates and actually admit that there are potential risks with the covid vaccinations just like any other medical drug or vaccine.
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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Looking at the total years of life lost is proper, but I too have not seen the numbers for it. It's one of those things, like not properly looking into ivermectin, that has me shaking my head over the CDC.

Looking on the bright side, so to speak, the number of deaths compared to the mean line should soon be below average. All the oldsters whose death was accelerated won't be there to die when they typically would have. :(
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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KWK wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:39 pm
... there is data elsewhere in the world which indicates immunity from prior infection is stronger than immunity from the vaccines.
A study from Israel released in late August also found that while both natural and vaccine immunity wane, the vaccine does so more rapidly. Getting a single shot after an infection gives the best protection. The vaccine alone still improves your odds for survival, of course.
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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AJMD429 wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:17 pm
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm ... id=3765018 (click the 'PDF' button to see whole paper)
Which is a paper reporting favorable ivermectin results from around Peru, written early this year, which concludes:
For the 24 states with early IVM treatment (and Lima), excess deaths dropped 59% (25%) at +30 days and 75% (25%) at +45 days after day of peak deaths.
Yet there is this report:
During Peru’s 1st wave of the pandemic (March to December 2020), we estimate there were 173,099 “excess deaths”. Considering the size of Peru’s population (33 million), this is the highest per capita rate of excess mortality reported for any country during the pandemic in 2020.
and this report:
A year on, Peru has the unenviable record of more than 2610 per million excess deaths among its population of 33 million—almost twice that of the US and the most of any large nation.
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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KWK wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:50 am
KWK wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:39 pm
... there is data elsewhere in the world which indicates immunity from prior infection is stronger than immunity from the vaccines.
A study from Israel released in late August also found that while both natural and vaccine immunity wane, the vaccine does so more rapidly. Getting a single shot after an infection gives the best protection. The vaccine alone still improves your odds for survival, of course.
Yeah - this guy (around 7 minutes into the podcast) goes into that in detail - https://odysee.com/@Chris_Martenson:2/m ... -natural:2
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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it is endlessly fascinating to me how much credence is tendered to the cdc and fda, and other corrupt lying agencies...
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https://articles.mercola.com/sites/arti ... 1319522847

Story at-a-glance

Research shows increases in COVID-19 cases are completely unrelated to levels of vaccination in 68 countries worldwide and 2,947 counties in the U.S.
The data from U.S. counties showed similar trends, with new COVID-19 cases per 100,000 people being “largely similar” regardless of the vaccination rate
Of the five U.S. counties with the highest vaccination rates — ranging from 84.3% to 99.9% fully vaccinated — four are on the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s “high transmission” list, while 26.3% of the 57 counties with “low transmission” had vaccination rates under 20%
Iceland and Portugal, both of which have more than 75% of their populations fully vaccinated, have more COVID-19 cases per 1 million people than Vietnam and South Africa, where only 10% or so of their populations are fully vaccinated
CDC data show rates of hospitalization for severe illness among the fully vaccinated went from 0.01% in January 2021 to 9% in May 2021, and deaths went from 0% to 15.1%. If the shots actually worked, these rates should have remained near zero
it's like, you know, people bow before government lies before they bother to do a simple check for the truth. it is axiomatic that liars don't tell the truth. but even if liars did tell the truth, it's still true.
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but if any one believes and tells lies, their ENTIRE OUT PUT IS FALSE.
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WE NEED A PANDEMIC OF TRUTH DISCERNERS BEFORE THE ENTIRE SHEEPFOLD IS CONTAMINATED, imho
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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With approval of Pfizer's rather effective Paxlovid treatment for Covid nearing approval, I have to wonder if a proper test of ivermectin will ever be done.
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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KWK wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:14 am
With approval of Pfizer's rather effective Paxlovid treatment for Covid nearing approval, I have to wonder if a proper test of ivermectin will ever be done.
Probably not. I can't believe the people I know who work in the healthcare field who are eager to try Pfizer and Merck new drugs, and yet have been hesitant to use ivermectin. I can't believe people with that level of intelligence managed to make it through medical school, but they are out there. They're chomping at the bit to try the new drugs that have been tested on 600 people for 6 weeks with mediocre results compared to a drug that has been tested on 300,000,000 people for 30 years with unparalleled safety results, and millions of people during the past year with unparalleled efficacy results.

It just goes to show how great peer pressure is and how influential big Pharma is in marketing to physicians, ironically especially the ones who are politically to the left of center. Those are the ones who would claim that they are skeptical of big Pharma and big business in general, and yet they play right into their hands. :roll:
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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GOTTA WONDER how many "doctors" got the education you got, and how many were passed up the chain for political reasons, with no actual skills or understanding or wisdom? I'm guessing medical schools are under the same political pressures to conform to the marxists that the rest of society is. I'm guessing there is no adverse consequence for graduating dolts as doctors.

Sri to disparage your profession Doc, you are an exception, but the evidence itself disparages your profession, and I can't see any other narrative that fits the facts as well as that one.
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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.

I know Dr. Marik has been an outlier enough that he gets attacked by the mainstream, and he dares to 'profit' off of his medical knowledge and opinions, but I also check out enough of his claims and sources to feel he is one of many legitimate docs treating CoVid with meds instead of just saying "there is no treatment - go home and take Tylenol...come back if you can't breathe..."

https://odysee.com/@FrontlineCovid19Cri ... 21_FINAL:b

This is an update on his lawsuit against a hospital that is refusing to treat CoVid patients with anything other than what Big Pharma tells them to use.

Another opinion article - https://www.yourobserver.com/article/op ... ctors-oath
Last edited by AJMD429 on Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ivermectin Musings....

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Thanks Doc
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