My first Sharps rifle

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marlinman93
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My first Sharps rifle

Post by marlinman93 »

Just purchased my first Sharps rifle. As a pretty diehard Ballard and Rolling Block collector/shooter, I never contemplated a Sharps. But this rifle was offered to me and after examining it closely, I discovered the restoration was done on a Freund Bros. marked action! It has the Freund upgrades of dual extractors, camming breech block, and firing pin, and was done in a JP Gemmer style. The workmanship on the restoration is amazing, and really high grade wood. The chambering sure wasn't my first choice, as it's a .50-140, but it came with several hundred cases, 4 boxes of loaded ammo, and two molds for paper patch and grease groove bullets. So really a tough Sharps to pass up as my first one.
I've been chatting with a friend who loads BP in his .500-450 Jeffries rifle and uses something called "amaranth seeds" as a filler over powder, and tells me his loads in the lighter Jeffries rifle are like .50-70 loads, so that should make shooting the big .50 manageable in this 15 lb. rifle.


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Tough to make out the Freund rollstamp here, but it's got the "skull and crossbones" in the center that's typical of their Wyoming Armory Cheyenne shop.

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And here's the .50-140 cartridge next to one of my .45-70-480 gr. loads. That's a 678 gr. paper patch bullet, but the two molds are for 400 gr., which should be better on my shoulder!:

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Re: My first Sharps rifle

Post by Pitchy »

That`s one sharp Sharps, congratulations. :)
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Vall, you must have done something right in a previous life for all these wonderful rifles to come your way. Does it get better than a Freund Sharps in the Gemmer style? I think not! 8)
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Very nice indeed. As a long time Sharps rifle fan, that is one of the prettiest I have seen.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Bill in Oregon wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:40 pm Vall, you must have done something right in a previous life for all these wonderful rifles to come your way. Does it get better than a Freund Sharps in the Gemmer style? I think not! 8)
Thanks Bill. Not sure I deserve to have such nice firearms drop in my lap, but I certainly appreciate them, and the sellers! The gentleman who owned this one has been holding it for me while I saved up enough to make the purchase. There's not many like him these days who shake your hand and tell you they'll wait as long as I needed to get funds together. He's the same seller who I purchased the Darr Rolling Block from.
He gave me his best guess on who did the restoration, and a quick Google search turned up a close name. He thought it was a "Bill Van Horn" and it turned out to be Gill Van Horn. Gill was famous for his work on fine African big game rifles, and retired from Weatherby long ago after over 2 decades as their stockmaker. His wife Emma did the checkering, and Gill did metal work, and built the new stocks.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Scott Tschirhart wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:41 pm Very nice indeed. As a long time Sharps rifle fan, that is one of the prettiest I have seen.
Thanks Scott! I was really taken by the workmanship, and style of this gun. I like the horn tip on the Gemmer forearm better than the usual Pewter tips they have. It's more subdued and less gaudy. I doubt I'll become a Sharps collector, but this one is a keeper that wont ever get sold while I'm alive.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Beautiful! I've always like the Sharps. Only ever shot 1 once. Belongs to a friend's father. When his Dad learned that he was going to be a father he celebrated by going to a gun show and buying the Sharps. When he walked through the door his expecting wife gave him an ear full. When he was able to get a word in edgewise he said it was for the baby!
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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GunnyMack wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:51 pm Beautiful! I've always like the Sharps. Only ever shot 1 once. Belongs to a friend's father. When his Dad learned that he was going to be a father he celebrated by going to a gun show and buying the Sharps. When he walked through the door his expecting wife gave him an ear full. When he was able to get a word in edgewise he said it was for the baby!
Thank goodness I have a wife that tolerates my hobby, and has always said it kept me busy at home, and away from bad influences. Of course I've done this hobby since I was in high school 55 yrs. ago, so I never had any spare change to drink, or hang out at bars.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Slugged the bore today and it's a .510" groove. I ordered a .512" sizing die for my lubrisizer, and will cast up the grease groove bullets to see what they drop at. Looked at C&H4D die sets, which I really love, and the .50-140 set is $247. I can buy just the sizing die for $150, and use my .50-70 dies to bell cases, neck size, and seat bullets if I want to save some on the whole set. I may try all my brass to see how it fits the chamber of the Sharps first, and if it fits I'll try loading a couple boxes of ammo and give that a try to begin with.
Ordered the Aramanth seed for filler also, so I'll get things ready while I wait on the seeds.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Doing some internet searching yesterday, and came across another 1874 Sharps that sold sometime ago at an auction. By chance it was one digit earlier than the serial number on mine! The auction description said the gun was shipped in Feb. 1880 to the Carlos Gove Gun Shop in Denver, Co. So I at least know when mine was made, as it likely shipped the same time as that Sharps. Now I just need Dr. Labowski who has the Sharps records to answer his darn phone! His voice mailbox is full, and nobody answers the phone. So not sure how to get ahold of him to obtain a copy of the factory records?
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Got out in the shop and cast up bullets for several rifles. The .50 caliber grease groove mold dropped bullets just under 430 grains, and once lubed will be 430 gr. They are quite large from the old Ideal mold at around .515", so I'll also size them down to .512 when I lube them.
My Amaranth seeds arrived yesterday, so I can make up my filler for reducing the BP loads also. Hopefully the sizing die for the bullets arrive today, so I can build up loads over the weekend, and shoot next week.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Now that is a beautiful boomer! Val, I think you should bring that baby over the mountain and try it against the hides of some of the steel buffalo we keep in the pasture at the COSSA range out east of Bend. I just got back from a shoot there last week end and can say the buffs are ready for more abuse.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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earlmck wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:31 am Now that is a beautiful boomer! Val, I think you should bring that baby over the mountain and try it against the hides of some of the steel buffalo we keep in the pasture at the COSSA range out east of Bend. I just got back from a shoot there last week end and can say the buffs are ready for more abuse.
Thanks Earl.
My local gun club has but one buffalo at 1,000 yds., but we have shooting positions from 300-1000 in 100 yd. increments. Only issue is once somebody picks a distance nobody else can shoot another distance until that first shooter is done. But they do tell shooters not to dominate a particular distance for more than an hour if somebody else wants to change.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Sized and lubed up about 50 bullets yesterday. I started with 75 grs. of Swiss 1 1/2 and it took 50 grs. of Amaranth seed to fill the case up enough to allow my 430 gr. bullets to seat against the powder. So that results in a 480 gr. projectile with bullet and seed, which should be mild in this heavy rifle. I'll make up 10 rds. with this load, and then 10 more with 80 grs., and less seed, and 10 more with 90 grs. and a smaller seed load. Then take them all to the range and see which gives best results.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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After building an expander to bell case necks on the .50, I attempted to try to seat bullets, and take out the small bell on one loaded case. The .50-70 dies I hoped would do the task, but no joy. So Tuesday I broke down and called C&H4D to order the correct .50-140 die set. Most expensive die set I've ever bought at $247, but really no options as they're the only game in town. I do love their die sets, and have 5 or 6 of them already in obsolete cartridges that are much shorter, and much less money than these huge dies.
The lady who answers their phones was wonderful! She took all my info, and made the notation I wanted to have the expander work for .512" bullets. Then she asked me to hold a minute, and when she came back on the phone she said her desk was pretty full, but she would get the die set out Wed. and I should have it by this weekend! Amazing service these days for a die set that I expected wasn't going to be here very quickly!
Hopefully I'll be back on track to hear the Sharps go boom soon.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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As promised, my dies for the .50-140-3.25 showed up today! They're beautiful, and polished to a mirror finish inside! Ready to build some ammo now!

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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Wow that was FAST! Hurry up and get some loaded already-we need a range report ASAP. :D
Seriously though did they have those in stock or did they make them and ship in a few days?
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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GunnyMack wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:33 pm Wow that was FAST! Hurry up and get some loaded already-we need a range report ASAP. :D
Seriously though did they have those in stock or did they make them and ship in a few days?
The gal on the phone asked me to hold, and came back in a minute and told me they were in stock. So only small delay was the custom size expander.
I loaded up one box of ammo yesterday. Don't want to go further until I see how accurate these are, and know if I need to adjust the load. I'm using 75 grs. of Swiss 1 1/2, with 45 grs. of Amaranth seed filler over the charge. Then seating a wad and 430 gr. .50 caliber bullet. With the weight of the Sharps it will be pretty mild, so if accuracy is decent I'll stay with it. If not I'll up the powder charge and reduce the seed filler to get to an accurate load.
I set up my old Lyman 55 to pour the filler, and using my Harrell's Precision measure for the powder charge. Makes it easy to charge the powder, and then drop the filler with two measures.
I'll wait until next week to go to the range as I stay away during weekends when the working guys all head out. During the week the range is always empty, or close to it, even with nearly 2000 members not many go weekdays.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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This new Sharps is like a snowball rolling downhill. Not complaining, but I had to find a different mold because the one that came with it is dropping bullets way too large, and sizing them down is tough. And my old RCBS Rock Chucker doesn't have enough stroke length to simply seat bullets. I have to back off the seating die to get the case and bullet in the press, and once seated I need to back it off to remove the loaded cartridge.
So I found a NOS Lyman 515141 that's a .512" and weighs 425 grs. Lyman stopped making this mold, but I located one through a private seller. I still need to buy a Rock Chucker Supreme that's got a longer 4" stroke, and will load big cases without any fiddling. Hoping one might show at our monthly OAC show in October. Otherwise I'll need to pay the new price of around $160-$200.
So moving ahead slowly, and will cast some more smaller bullets once I get the mold here in a few days.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Beautiful rifle built for serious work. Congratulations, and enjoy.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Got a call from the seller yesterday morning. He was excited to tell me he found the brand new RCBS die set he had for the Sharps. :( A little late, but I'll take them, and hopefully recoup some funds I spent on buying the C&H4D dies. Also said he found more ammo loaded with a lighter bullet weight. So going to make another 3 hr. drive each way soon to see what all he's got.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Got some very exciting news about my Sharps this morning from Dick Labowski who owns the original factory records! I got his email address from Tom Rowe, as he didn't answer his phone, and not voice mailbox setup either. But he sent a email reply today!
His factory records show my Sharps as being sent out in 1880, and listed as an "A Rifle" which he said means it was an "assembled rifle" after 1874 production halted. Nothing in the records about a barrel or caliber, so I assume it may have just been a receiver complete, or maybe receiver and stocks? But the really exciting part is the gun was sent to the firm of Carlos Gove & JP Lower Denver, Co.! No way to determine if they built the rest, and then Freund did the Freund Improvements, or if Gove and Lower sold it to a customer, or to Freund to do the rest of the build? Regardless of who did what it's got some great provenance to some important historical figures in the Old West gunsmiths, and dealers!
I'm sending for the factory letter, since it is so important to document the rifle's provenance!
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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My NOS Lyman 515141 .50 caliber mold came in yesterday. I headed straight to the shop and cast about 60 some bullets and after cooling I ran them through the Lyman lubrisizer and my .512 die. They drop from the mold at 425 grs. and measure .5125", so probably could be used as cast, but I don't care much for tedious pan lubing, so sized and lubed them down.
Then I made up another 20 rds. of ammo and the new bullets are great. They almost push seat, and only need the seating die to remove the slight bell off the mouth, and set bullet depth. Finished cartridges drop in easily, and are a very snug almost match chamber fit.
Now I need to locate an obsolete Lyman #7852010 drill press style trimmer. They stopped making these, and I've got a bag full of .500 Nitro Express brass that's slightly long and my Lyman Universal trimmer wont accept the large .665" case rims, or trim the large .512" case mouths. Going to call C&H4D Monday and ask if their manual trimmer does these large cases, but the Lyman drill press trimmer would really make fast work of a bunch brass if I found one!

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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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I was going to suggest a call the the folks that make the Little Crow trimmer BUT without a shoulder datum( shoulder) they won't work!
A file trim die maybe?
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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GunnyMack wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 4:06 pm I was going to suggest a call the the folks that make the Little Crow trimmer BUT without a shoulder datum( shoulder) they won't work!
A file trim die maybe?
A would use a file trim die, but doubt anyone has one for this oddball cartridge.
C&H4D has a trimmer in their catalog that says it doesn't use a shell holder to hold cases, but they don't list the cutter size? I'll call them Monday to see if it's big enough to do a .50 caliber cartridge?

I may give Lyman a call also and see if by chance their latest universal shell holder, and cutter are larger, and might fit my existing Lyman trimmer?
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Posted a WTB ad for that Lyman trimmer in several forums, and got a reply this morning from a member at the Cast Boolits forum. So sending him funds for his tomorrow!
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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That was easy! Sure hope that solves the trimming issue as we are waiting for a range report. :D
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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GunnyMack wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:47 pm That was easy! Sure hope that solves the trimming issue as we are waiting for a range report. :D
Regardless of whether it solves the issue, I will get it out this week, as I have enough ammo made up to shoot it now. Today is out, and Tuesday is range maintenance every week, so likely Wed. will be the first chance to hear it go boom.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Headed to the range today, and took the 1874 Sharps, my Hepburn in .40-65, and my Ballard Mid-range A1 in .40-63 along. Took the latter two just in case I needed something else to shoot if things didn't go as planned.
The load of 75 grs. Swiss 1 1/2 with 45 grs. of seed and a 425 gr. bullet is wonderful! I'd compare it to a medium load with a 480 gr. .45-70 load, and in the heavy Sharps it's a pussycat! I'll likely bump the next loads up 5 grs. to 80 gr. and see how those feel, and shoot. I took 40 rds. with me and shot them all. I wore my PAST recoil pad, but sure didn't need it.
The sights on the Sharps are really holding things back for me. The rounded narrow blade in front, and Freund ladder type sight at the rear shot too high hitting about 10" high at 100 yds. I had two targets set up, one above the other, and shots hit between the targets. So I will D&T the tang and install a tang sight, and put a globe up front before shooting anymore. With my old eyes I was getting 5" groups, and just impossible to get a decent sight picture.
I'm tickled with the Amaranth seed filler, and how well it does at making the loads manageable! I think with good sights, and some further load workup it could be a very competitive rifle and cartridge.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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It doesn't look like it weighs 15 lbs, have to say. I'm sure that helps to tame the recoil, and you can do your gym work out at the same time. :lol:

Fantastic find and its in the right hands with you. Keep us posted my friend. -Tutt
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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CowboyTutt wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:34 pm It doesn't look like it weighs 15 lbs, have to say. I'm sure that helps to tame the recoil, and you can do your gym work out at the same time. :lol:

Fantastic find and its in the right hands with you. Keep us posted my friend. -Tutt
Thanks! The whole rifle beyond the action and buttstock is oversized. With the 34" long barrel, and extra weight of that barrel it's well balanced aesthetically, and doesn't look as heavy is it is. Everyone whose handled it is surprised when I hand it to them, and they feel how heavy it is. It sure doesn't move around much with these loads.
Once I get better sights on it I'll gradually increase the charges to see what it groups best with. Then take it out to one of our Tuesday afternoon long range buffalo shoots to see how it does at 1000 yds.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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I thought I would look and see if there was any data for the 50-140 cartridge in Quick Load already. Doesn't appear to be although I could pretty easily modify another 50 caliber I think (50-70 was in there but it's the "auto" one?) Anyhow, your not interested in going smokeless I know, but it would be a fun project for some of us.

Earl, if you get a chance, can you search your copy of QL and see if I'm reading that right? I looked under cartridges in 0.500 and 0.510 size and "no love". I still don't know the program that well really. I'm a little surprised nothing in there on it.

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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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CowboyTutt wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:47 pm I thought I would look and see if there was any data for the 50-140 cartridge in Quick Load already. Doesn't appear to be although I could pretty easily modify another 50 caliber I think (50-70 was in there but it's the "auto" one?) Anyhow, your not interested in going smokeless I know, but it would be a fun project for some of us.

Earl, if you get a chance, can you search your copy of QL and see if I'm reading that right? I looked under cartridges in 0.500 and 0.510 size and "no love". I still don't know the program that well really. I'm a little surprised nothing in there on it.

-Tutt
I have found smokeless data at Accurate for the .50-140, but all the data is for pretty hot loads. Not so hot the Sharps can't handle it, but I'm not a fan of recoil, and the loads were in the 1600-2000 fps range. I have run the .500 Nitro Express, which is almost identical through y Gordon's Reloading program, and worked up loads for smokeless and IMR4198 with a 425 gr. bullet that are around 1400 fps. But everything I work up states the loads have around a 75% burn rate, and may have a fair amount of deviation in velocity between shots. So it appears you'd have to run the loads up hotter with smokeless to get consistency. I may revisit smokeless once I've wrung out a good BP load.

My letter from Dick Labowskie showed up yesterday. It confirms some of what his email said, but also adds info, and shows some different info than what he originally offered. Or clarifies the info.
In the letter he states that Carlos Gove and JP Lower bought a large amount of these "A" rifles in February 1880, but he clarified that they were competitors at that time, so Sharps sent separate shipments to the two separate shops, not one shipment. He didn't reveal how many guns were sent to each, so no idea how many they bought. But the guns were all pretty basic versions with little special order features since they were assembled from leftover parts. Sharps was in financial trouble at the time, and headed towards bankruptcy, so whatever they could toss together they did.
The letter also states my Sharps left the factory as a .45-70, so appears it got rebored, or rebarreled at a later date to be the .50-140 it is now. I suspected it would not be as it left the factory since "A" rifles were bare bones and this is pretty deluxe.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

Post by CowboyTutt »

4198 was great in its day, but much better stuff out there even for this application, I'm sure. We could figure it out together when your ready someday. Would be fun! Meanwhile I appreciate the BP stuff and await your results.

Very interesting history on that rifle again.

I've discovered I can get the 11mm Mauser screaming at 30,000 PSI with my 500 grain bullet and RL26. Having that 31.5" barrel really helps in the velocity department. Velocities' were 1860 fps at that pressure with a slightly compressed load. Just predicted with Quick Load, but would be fun to shoot some of it (with my "man bra" on most likely!) -Tutt
Last edited by CowboyTutt on Wed Oct 26, 2022 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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CowboyTutt wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:00 pm 4198 was great in its day, but much better stuff out there even for this application, I'm sure. We could figure it out together when your ready someday. Would be fun! Meanwhile I appreciate the BP stuff and await your results.

Very interesting history on that rifle again.

I've discovered I can get the 11mm Mauser screaming at 30,000 PSI with my 500 grain bullet and RL26. Having that 31.5" barrel really helps in the velocity department. Velocities' were 1860 fps at that pressure with a slightly compressed case. Just predicted with Quick Load, but would be fun to shoot some of it (with my "man bra" on most likely!) -Tutt
4198 in either H or IMR is my go to powder for all my larger size BP cases. It gives lower chamber pressures than BP gives, and in my .40 and .45 caliber rifle cases velocity deviations are in the 18-25 fps range, and very accurate out to 1000 yds. in my old guns. But I've never used it in a case larger than my .45-70. In my .44-77SBN and this .50-140 I use BP for now.

My RCBS Supreme press arrived yesterday. Delivered by Fed Ex, and I'm a bit confused, as the seller on Ebay stated "shipped from China, expedited delivery by Nov. 2nd"? But it came from Tennessee, not China? And although info on the internet stated RCBS had resourced production to China for presses, when I opened the shipping box, the RCBS inside is clearly marked, "Made in USA". So not made in china, and not shipped from China.
A quick glance at the press shows it to be typical RCBS quality. The press is taller at 4.5" opening, but also has a bit better leverage than my old Rockchucker. And the press is setup to allow the handle to be right hand or left hand by moving it to one side or the other! Now whenever my Lyman drill press trimmer arrives I can go after all my .500 NE Bell cases and get them shortened to build up more loads.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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You make me wanna dig my Sharps outta the safe and load up some 40-90SBN and hit the range. Our gun club is limited to 200 yards and my 85 grains of Goex "Cartridge" are barely settling down at that distance. I'd like to see what a reduced load could do, but I've been warned off fillers in the bottle neck as they can form a "plug" if moisture gets in the case. I've only used 5744 as a smokeless propellant, maybe I should change that up. Plus I've got to reconfirm my sight-in after installing new sights.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

Post by Leverluver »

Griff
I need to get out more with my 40- 2 5/8. too.
Smokeless, I've had luck with 4198 with 330GC but taking look at 5744 as well. We're you not satisfied with 5744?
Also like to try BP paper patch but my cases (reformed 45-2.6) come out a little short for PP. Probably have to get a case stretcher from Buffalo Arms.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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It's a wonderful rifle MM, and I look forward to your BP loads. As to using modern smokeless powders, it really is about what your criteria is. If your looking for maximum velocity that will generate one chart of powders. If you want to limit the velocity with a certain bullet, you can set the criteria for that velocity and that will generate another list of powders to use. I ran some data on the 45-90 with a 400 grain Woodleigh PP (yes, I've been told they are out of business but its a good general purpose bullet style) set for velocity and none of the powders mentioned come up for a loooooong time. Much better choices out there for that application. If your looking for a particular velocity, they very well might be on that list.

Sometimes you can get away with using a fast burning, easy to ignite, pistol powder like Blue Dot that I use in my huge 11mm case with a 500 grain bullet. It is a tiny charge of 18.6 IIRC. Works just fine, low pressure and no detonations.

-Tutt
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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One feature of my Gordon's reloading program is a graph that not only shows chamber pressures, and velocity, but also shows how the pressure ramps up. Some of the powders I've used forever like Unique, and 2400 for reduced loads will be low enough pressures, but they reach those pressures like a rocket launching. The pressure spike is sometimes not what I want to see or use in certain old 1800's single shots I own. My Ballard and Rolling Block rifles are not as strong as this Sharps, or my Hepburn rifles, so I am a bit more cautious with not just peak pressures, but also how they ramp up to those pressures.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Griff wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 2:54 pm You make me wanna dig my Sharps outta the safe and load up some 40-90SBN and hit the range. Our gun club is limited to 200 yards and my 85 grains of Goex "Cartridge" are barely settling down at that distance. I'd like to see what a reduced load could do, but I've been warned off fillers in the bottle neck as they can form a "plug" if moisture gets in the case. I've only used 5744 as a smokeless propellant, maybe I should change that up. Plus I've got to reconfirm my sight-in after installing new sights.
Good advice to steer clear of fillers in smokeless cartridges, especially with a double base powder like 5744! There's documented evidence of 5744 and fillers blowing up weaker actions. I personally don't use wads or fillers in any smokeless cartridge loading, but in the Sharps .50-140 with BP I feel comfortable using the amaranth seeds. Not only is it safe, but anything less than a full case with BP could be very dangerous. So I have no choice but to use filler with BP loads. The amaranth seed is extremely small, and perfectly round, so I use my Lyman 55 to drop the load of filler, and it meters better than gunpowder does. It also settles in so well that when I was experimenting with dropping it straight out of the measure vs. dropping it with my drop tube, it gave the exact same level. So I don't use a drop tube for the seed filler. It's really cheap at places on the internet, and I bought a 5 lb. bag of it off Ebay for about $16 with free shipping. The bag will last me for many years of loading.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Great looking rifle.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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I chickened out on mounting a tang sight on the Sharps. Either it never got drilled and tapped for a tang sight, or the holes got filled during restoration decades ago. I had to take my Darr Rolling Block to a friend to have him mill a front sight dovetail, so took the Sharps along also so he can use his digital controlled mill to set up and do the tang sight holes.
I have a big box of various old front and rear sights, and a little digging brought up a replica of the old Sharps Borchadt Soule tang sight. So he'll space the holes for that sight, and it will make the Sharps easier to get a better sight picture. I've got a decent globe for the front also once it gets back home.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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CowboyTutt wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:47 pm I thought I would look and see if there was any data for the 50-140 cartridge in Quick Load already. Doesn't appear to be although I could pretty easily modify another 50 caliber I think (50-70 was in there but it's the "auto" one?) Anyhow, your not interested in going smokeless I know, but it would be a fun project for some of us.

Earl, if you get a chance, can you search your copy of QL and see if I'm reading that right? I looked under cartridges in 0.500 and 0.510 size and "no love". I still don't know the program that well really. I'm a little surprised nothing in there on it.

-Tutt
Sorry Tutt, I was gone for a few days and didn't see your request. My copy of QL (2012 version) does have the 50/140 in it. I played around with QL and the 450 grain Lyman bullet a bit. I see Val's point that all the usual powder choices get right up there around 2000 fps when you have kinda' normal pressures. Trailboss looked good on paper, with 36 grains (80% fill) giving just over 1400 fps. with 25k psi. And your idea of Blue Dot might be an interesting way to go -- QL thinks 32 grains would give just over 1400 fps at 12k psi and 30% fill. I've not shot Blue Dot at 12k psi -- that's not part of my experience base.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

Post by CowboyTutt »

Earl, what cartridge file did you find it in? I checked 0.510 and 0.500 sizes and it wasn't there? Thanks for looking it up too. That is too little pressure even for Blue Dot I think. I started to get erratic results when I tried to slow down my 11mm loads too much. I think it needs 20K to work right but that is little more than a guess based upon my limited experiences with it. -Tutt
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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marlinman93 wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:50 am
Griff wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 2:54 pmYou make me wanna dig my Sharps outta the safe and load up some 40-90SBN and hit the range. Our gun club is limited to 200 yards and my 85 grains of Goex "Cartridge" are barely settling down at that distance. I'd like to see what a reduced load could do, but I've been warned off fillers in the bottle neck as they can form a "plug" if moisture gets in the case. I've only used 5744 as a smokeless propellant, maybe I should change that up. Plus I've got to reconfirm my sight-in after installing new sights.
Good advice to steer clear of fillers in smokeless cartridges, especially with a double base powder like 5744! There's documented evidence of 5744 and fillers blowing up weaker actions. I personally don't use wads or fillers in any smokeless cartridge loading, but in the Sharps .50-140 with BP I feel comfortable using the amaranth seeds. Not only is it safe, but anything less than a full case with BP could be very dangerous. So I have no choice but to use filler with BP loads. The amaranth seed is extremely small, and perfectly round, so I use my Lyman 55 to drop the load of filler, and it meters better than gunpowder does. It also settles in so well that when I was experimenting with dropping it straight out of the measure vs. dropping it with my drop tube, it gave the exact same level. So I don't use a drop tube for the seed filler. It's really cheap at places on the internet, and I bought a 5 lb. bag of it off Ebay for about $16 with free shipping. The bag will last me for many years of loading.
The .40-90SBN is definitely a BP cartridge, and it would be the BP loads I'd like to reduce as that 85 grain load fill the case to the juncture of the shoulder & neck and results in pushing my 350 grain bullets @1690fps. It doesn't take many of those to exceed my flinch barrier. I can reduce the smokeless load easily enough, I currently use 45-70 data, as there's none for smokeless in the 40-90SBN. I can't shoot in BPCRS with smokeless.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

Post by marlinman93 »

Griff wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 1:25 pm
marlinman93 wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:50 am
Griff wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 2:54 pmYou make me wanna dig my Sharps outta the safe and load up some 40-90SBN and hit the range. Our gun club is limited to 200 yards and my 85 grains of Goex "Cartridge" are barely settling down at that distance. I'd like to see what a reduced load could do, but I've been warned off fillers in the bottle neck as they can form a "plug" if moisture gets in the case. I've only used 5744 as a smokeless propellant, maybe I should change that up. Plus I've got to reconfirm my sight-in after installing new sights.
Good advice to steer clear of fillers in smokeless cartridges, especially with a double base powder like 5744! There's documented evidence of 5744 and fillers blowing up weaker actions. I personally don't use wads or fillers in any smokeless cartridge loading, but in the Sharps .50-140 with BP I feel comfortable using the amaranth seeds. Not only is it safe, but anything less than a full case with BP could be very dangerous. So I have no choice but to use filler with BP loads. The amaranth seed is extremely small, and perfectly round, so I use my Lyman 55 to drop the load of filler, and it meters better than gunpowder does. It also settles in so well that when I was experimenting with dropping it straight out of the measure vs. dropping it with my drop tube, it gave the exact same level. So I don't use a drop tube for the seed filler. It's really cheap at places on the internet, and I bought a 5 lb. bag of it off Ebay for about $16 with free shipping. The bag will last me for many years of loading.
The .40-90SBN is definitely a BP cartridge, and it would be the BP loads I'd like to reduce as that 85 grain load fill the case to the juncture of the shoulder & neck and results in pushing my 350 grain bullets @1690fps. It doesn't take many of those to exceed my flinch barrier. I can reduce the smokeless load easily enough, I currently use 45-70 data, as there's none for smokeless in the 40-90SBN. I can't shoot in BPCRS with smokeless.
Here's what you need to make your BP loads lighter, and more enjoyable to shoot.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255451520519?var=555416328708

Mine are actually too light at 75 grs. of Swiss 1 1/2 BP, and 45 grs. of amaranth seed filler. So in my heavy gun I'm planning to bump it up to probably 85 grs. and then figure out how much to reduce the filler to get a bullet seated with little compression.
The powder needs to be run through my drop tube, but the seed settles so perfectly it can be metered right into the cases using my Lyman 55 powder measure. I use my Harrell's Precision to drop tube the BP powder charge.
The 3 lb. bag of Amaranth seed will fill a lot of cases, but the 1.5 lb. bag was only $2 cheaper, so I went for the larger bag.
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Re: My first Sharps rifle

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Since getting the RCBS Supreme press, with it's larger 4.5" case capacity, the reloading is a snap now! I set to pulling bullets on all the loads that came with it, and disassembled the smokeless loads. I'm planning on making up one box of smokeless powder loads using IMR4198, and my lighter 425 gr. bullets.
I also got a National wet tumbler at Midway recently when they discounted them from $130 down to $50, and a friend gave me a heads up before they all sold out quickly. It's a big 7 liter capacity listed to hold 1000 .223 cases, and will easily clean all my .50-140 brass at one time. I pulled all the heavy loads, and dumped all my brass in for an hour, and when the timer shut off they looked like new.
Making up loads with the Supreme press was much faster than fighting my old too small press, and went fast. Now I need to melt down all those 678 gr. bullets, and some more lead to make more 425 gr. bullets! Some of the 678 gr. paper patch bullets were likely going to be trouble! When I pulled them about 6 of the bullets came out, and left the paper patch stuck in the case neck! Appeared someone wrapped and glued the paper patch, and maybe seated them before the glue dried? Bet they would have leaded up the bore when they traveled down the bore with no patch, and no lube grooves!
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