.40 "Slow & Weak" For The Win Against 400lb Bear

[Blaine]

Plus, great testicularity.
https://notthebee.com/article/400-pound ... his-castle

[2ndovc]

Kinda settles that argument.

jb

[piller]

Some load recipes show it much higher than run of the mill factory loads. I am not going to stand in front of the target to find out.

[Blaine]

Some load recipes show it much higher than run of the mill factory loads. I am not going to stand in front of the target to find out.

In Washington State bear country I feel just fine with my G30S (.45acp) with 230 FMJ. But, like the guy in the story, keep shooting until the threat goes down. Just like with human attackers.

[1894cfan]

Hey, 38/40 (40/38?) wcf did it again!

[Streetstar]

Bear just wanted some dog food. Maybe the guy should lock the door next time and that Likely would’ve dissuaded this critter from entering the house

What a tool

[1894cfan]

Is that the best you can come up with? I suppose you think the bear should have munched on the people before going into hibernation for the winter. Let me guess, you're one of those "woke" trolls that like to cause problems everywhere you go.

[Nath]

Great write up, made me chuckle.

[Streetstar]

Is that the best you can come up with? I suppose you think the bear should have munched on the people before going into hibernation for the winter. Let me guess, you're one of those "woke" trolls that like to cause problems everywhere you go.

A difference of opinion on how the guy should have handles it hardly makes me a troll, friend

Threat management starts with threat evaluation, —. A dog was mentioned . If the dog was putting the bear in an agitated state, then there is cause for concern. But if the dog is tucked away with mama and the kids are behind closed doors, then less lethal methods like bear spray or just making a lot of noise are effective on black bears.
The article itself said after confrontation and the initial shots, the critter was making a beeline for the front door.

I guess what set me off was the tone of the article though. I re-read it and the narrator playing it up like the homeowner was a hero from Jonah Hex was most irritating. Having to put a critter down is a somber thing and not something to celebrate.

The final couple of sentences where it stated the homeowner wanted the bear processed and the meat donated to do some good somewhere softened my stance a bit

But black bears are just curious critters who rarely attack a human (but I added the caveat of Fido. The article does mention the dog waking up mother - dogs are agitators )

I carry a .357 with hot buffalo bore rounds when backpacking in bear country and have had families of black bears in camp a couple of times. Once when another camp mate left an unsecured and open bag of Swedish Fish candy out. The critter downed those and was looking for more in the guys backpack when he was discovered . A couple of choice words and a shot of bear spray in its general direction turned him around and got him/ her going the other way without having to clear leather on the handgun

[44shooter]

A bear in one’s house is hardly the same as a bear in one’s backpack. Either way bears should leave us alone and not steal our food. The guy was justified. Sure he should have locked his door but things happen. The bear could easily break the door open any way. The bear was obviously way too comfortable among people. He is a hero. A large emboldened nuisance animal broke in his house and he killed it. Good riddance.

I’ve always been a fan of the 40. A 180 grain slug going 900+ from a 9mm size pistol is hardly slow and weak. It’s comparable to 357, 44 special and 45 acp at least in most standard loads with similar size guns. Significantly more powerful than 38 or 9mm. Not my choice for 400 pound bears but it worked.

[jeepnik]

I’m confused. I just read that black bears are just curious critters that rarely attack people. Elsewhere, I read that black bears are not only more likely ti attack humans than others. And then more likely to eat the victim.

One or the other is wrong. Then of course folks advocate having a dog for their ability to alert and defend the owners. But now I read the bear was agitated by a dog so the dog should be locked away. The last thing is do we or do we not advocate deadly predator enters our homes?

[GunnyMack]

Years ago I had a suction cup bird feeder on the kitchen window. I got home from work and the window was covered in nose prints and some of the siding was chewed/ torn off the house. I called F& G about it. They told me that they would be out to investigate. A message on the answering machine said they would not trap the bear because I was 'baiting the bears' by feeding the birds. I questioned them about what to do when I kill the bear after it breaks into the house, the reply was you can't do that. Umm if the bear comes through the window im shooting it. They said to call the police after I shoot.

My dogs do not like bear smell. Sure they bark at other stuff but the bear bark is completely different.

[piller]

I guess Yogi just picked the wrong house.

[1894cfan]

Fortunately he didn't drag BooBoo along for the ride!

[Scott Tschirhart]

I've watched a lot of video of shootings for the various departments we represent. That .40 S&W cartridge seems to do as well as any other handgun and better than most.

[1894cfan]

Yup, just a modern version of the OLD 38/40 WCF, and it's been getting the job done since 1873!

[44shooter]

Yeah kinda hard to get 38-40 to fit in my Firestar though. But I get what you mean. Truth is if you put 9 mm, 38, 357, 10mm, 44 Sp, and 45 auto in a blender with a caveat to fit double stack duty pistols and single stack subcompacts in 1990 you get the 40. Can’t say it’s my favorite but I do like it better than 9mm and for my hands it’s ideal in double stack pistols over longer or bigger rounds. Not shabby in a single stack ccw either.

[piller]

.40 is sort of a compromise, but it works. I prefer it to 9mm, but that is just my personal opinion. Can anyone prove that the bear would be any more dead if the homeowner had used a different caliber? The person on the trigger is the most effective part of the equation.

[1894cfan]

40 S&W is just a modern version of the old 38/40, same bullet weight and velocity in a newer more modern package. Not to mention more efficient projectiles.

[44shooter]

I’ve been considering getting the Ruger carbine in 40. Should be quite a wallop at across the yard ranges and I inherited both a Glock and a Ruger SR40 with multiple mags for each. The carbine can take either with a housing switch. Been waiting for a 45 version for 1911 mags but doesn’t look like Ruger will make it.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I’ve been considering getting the Ruger carbine in 40. Should be quite a wallop at across the yard ranges and I inherited both a Glock and a Ruger SR40 with multiple mags for each. The carbine can take either with a housing switch. Been waiting for a 45 version for 1911 mags but doesn’t look like Ruger will make it.

If Ruger would make a carbine that uses .45 1911 mags, I would break my arm reaching for my wallet.

[piller]

.45 ACP out of a 16 inch barrel semiautomatic carbine should be plenty of power for almost anything I might encounter. It would make a great companion to a 1911. Hey Ruger, are you listening?

[Streetstar]

.45 ACP out of a 16 inch barrel semiautomatic carbine should be plenty of power for almost anything I might encounter. It would make a great companion to a 1911. Hey Ruger, are you listening?

Marlin tried years ago -- anybody remember the Camp Carbine ?

[Streetstar]

I’ve been considering getting the Ruger carbine in 40. Should be quite a wallop at across the yard ranges and I inherited both a Glock and a Ruger SR40 with multiple mags for each. The carbine can take either with a housing switch. Been waiting for a 45 version for 1911 mags but doesn’t look like Ruger will make it.

If i actually saw one at my retailer, my reaction would be quick too . alas,my store always plenty of 9mm ones but i have that covered with other firearms

[44shooter]

I remember the Camp Carbine. Looked like a swollen model 795/995. Accounts seemed favorable but I’ve only seen a couple. The 40 would do fine I guess would be close to a full 10mm from a pistol

[Scott Tschirhart]

Marlin tried years ago -- anybody remember the Camp Carbine ?

I thought that the Camp Carbine was a really good idea. However, I never bought one.

Its more likely that Ruger would make something in .45 ACP that would use high capacity magazines as that seems to be what everyone wants today.

Though, I would also buy a Ruger/Marlin 94 in .45 ACP in a heartbeat as well.

[Yeah, I know, but I shoot a heck of a lot of .45 ACP every year.]

[2ndovc]

Marlin tried years ago -- anybody remember the Camp Carbine ?

I thought that the Camp Carbine was a really good idea. However, I never bought one.

Its more likely that Ruger would make something in .45 ACP that would use high capacity magazines as that seems to be what everyone wants today.

Though, I would also buy a Ruger/Marlin 94 in .45 ACP in a heartbeat as well.

[Yeah, I know, but I shoot a heck of a lot of .45 ACP every year.]

I'd buy a .45 ACP lever action in a heartbeat!

Having become a recent fan of the .40 S&W over the last two years or so, it wouldn't be my first choice for packin' around our cabin in PA but I wouldn't feel under gunned with it either. I've had some first hand experiences with black bears over the last 50+ years.

I've had far more problems with two legged creatures up there than four. However, I have had a black bear try to get in while I was there on two occasions. The first time, I had just gotten up and let the dogs out and back in. I was in the bedroom when I heard the front door creak. The dogs went off like a couple of wolves. I grabbed my rifle, an L1A1 on that trip, ran into the living room just in time to see a good size black bear trotting down the walk to the road heading elsewhere. Like the family in the story, I hadn't locked the front door and Mr. Bear was coming in for breakfast.
Second time, my family was with me and one of the boys says " There's a bear in the yard". I look into the other room and a bear is on her hind legs looking at the kids and dog, looking back at her through the living room window. She then decided to start pushing on the vinyl window and as it's starting to bow I tell the dogs it time to bark now. The bear bolts, I grab my Marlin .45-70 and she kicks it in high gear after a couple of rounds in the ground. What I didn't know at the time, was her cub was up the hemlock tree just above the cabin. Sure enough, she's coming back around at full speed. Though, all she did was go up the tree, nudge the cub and both run off with the dogs barking and trying to get out.

A few years ago with my little dog, Bandit on his first trip up there we had a run in with a different type of large woodland creature. I'm not going to say what it was, but a single round from my .44 Magnum SBH ended any thoughts he had about having my little buddy for lunch. I'm sure two or three .40s would have had the same impact, but I am most comfortable up there with a .44 Mag or .45 ACP or Colt.
One or more of the 10mms go with me on occasion, but there's always a long gun or 3 with me as well.
For the most part, black bears will avoid people and dogs, but there are occasions that they are hungry, sick, injured, unhappy with the current administration, or just plain old P'oed and get into places and situations they normally wouldn't. Again, just my experiences.

Either way, for several reasons, I never go up there unarmed. It's just a weird part of the world. Strange things happen.


jb

[piller]

Glad you had your guns, and knew how to use them.

[jeepnik]

I’ve mentioned before that I am confused. On the one hand we hear that black bears are cowardly. On the other folks say you are more likely to be attacked by a black bear than a grizzly. And if killed the black bear will eat you while a grizzly won’t. Then I read about some fool in Alaska living with the bears and he and his girlfriend are killed and eaten.

So is there a bear expert that can explain all these contradictions?

[2ndovc]

All I know are from my own experiences. The black bears that I've had encounters with weren't looking to kill anyone, they were just hungry and doing what bears do.

I have read, that an angry ( for whatever reason it's angry) black bear can kill you more often than a grizzly, but I'd rather not test that hypothesis personally. I have Zero personal experience around the great western bears but have learned enough to know that while out hiking in our part of the world you need to avoid startling one and making it mad. I never go hiking without a dog or two and something that starts with a .4 on my hip. The dogs always see, hear or smell things, long before I do and every time they have let out a growl or a low woof and a bear will break cover and run. Our Great Dane was a pro at this. She would stiffen up with her nose in the air, A few seconds would go by and Woof! There goes a bear that I hadn't seen. All but one of my dogs have been on a lead while hiking up there. My first lab was the only one that would not give chase if I said no. Best trained dog I've ever had. My Dane wanted to in the worst way, she would stay if told, but I never trusted that completely.

For what it's worth. Here's a pretty good article I found:
https://thetrek.co/one-of-the-foremost- ... ar-safety/

Picture of one of my encounters,


And why she came back;





jb

[piller]

No personal experience with bears. Sorry, but I am no help with them.

[Streetstar]

I’ve mentioned before that I am confused. On the one hand we hear that black bears are cowardly. On the other folks say you are more likely to be attacked by a black bear than a grizzly. And if killed the black bear will eat you while a grizzly won’t. Then I read about some fool in Alaska living with the bears and he and his girlfriend are killed and eaten.

So is there a bear expert that can explain all these contradictions?

60 or so black bear fatalities since 1900 according to this. Just taking a wild guess, but dogs probably do more than that in a single year

I readily admit to not being an expert. I just have some experiences backpacking and bow hunting in bear country. After the initial shock i had of seeing a bear in the wild for the first time, they just became a part of the scenery and no more of a threat than a coyote --- again - those were my experiences only

article i found below that roughly supports my opinion that they are not terribly dangerous.

The guy in Alaska you are referring to was the subject of the documentary "Grizzly Man" - i watched it and in the film, the gentleman seems to show clear signs of slight derangement, but he had spent every year for over a decade living in a tent in big bear country . The guy was an idealist, not a realist and it bit him in the butt (literally i guess)

https://bear.org/how-dangerous-are-black-bears/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly_Man

[44shooter]

From what I understand based purely on reading and watching shows or videos as someone who has been interested in animal wildlife since I can remember and has a zoology bachelor’s degree, black bears are far more likely to naturally steer clear of humans than a grizzly or brown bear. That said black bears are more likely to live in close proximity to people as they are more numerous and have a more extensive range. Many have learned to feed on things we grow, raise, leave out or bring into their habitat. This can embolden them as it can with most animals that can thrive around people and being big and powerful can lead to dangerous encounters. I’ve also read more than once that if a black bear is following you it is a predatory behavior as in it is looking for an opportunity to eat you. I’ve read if a grizzly attacks to play dead and if a black attacks to fight until it leaves, dies or kills you. Black bears live all over North Carolina but we don’t see them often despite being a populous state. One attacked a teenage girl napping in a hammock or swing in our mountains not long ago. Certainly predatory behavior.

[samsi]

A buddy and I were stalked for about 1/2 a mile by a black bear while hiking in the Gila NF. We didn't realize it until the bear decided to reveal himself and we put all the pieces together afterwards. We had a standoff for an uncomfortable period of time before the bear grudgingly turned around and walked off. It did seem like it was calculating how to take one of us, but couldn't figure how to handle us both. It was a tough hike so we'd packed light, buddy had no gun and I had an Airweight J-frame - somewhat comforting, but not ideal for the situation.

A fellow I once knew who had hunted from Alaska to Mexico over 50 years or so once told me that he only had problems with black bears twice, but both times he was sure that they were intent on eating him.