Spring compression

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Ysabel Kid
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Spring compression

Post by Ysabel Kid »

I know we've all heard of spring's under long-term constant compression developing a memory, or setting, and no longer functioning well. I usually associate this with older box magazines for pistols, though I will admit the magazines used in my Para-Ordnance pistols were all about worthless (I've replaced them all with Wolff magazine springs). I've seen it too in older aluminum AR-15 magazines (and some extremely cheap earlier polymer ones) - even Colt magazines. I know a lot of folks simply load said magazines short (15 vs. 20 or 25 vs 30 rounds). I also understand that quality springs using good spring steel don't develop a "memory".

Anyway, two questions. First the levergun one :)

(1) Has anyone had an issue with the tubular magazine spring in a leveraction developing a memory issue after long-term storage?

(2) Do Magpul magazines have this issue? I figure they are the gold standard.

Thanks fellas!

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1894cfan
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Re: Spring compression

Post by 1894cfan »

I've got an 1894c that I've had for some 35 years and it's been loaded for most of that time. I was a bit worried about the same thing so ordered up I think TEN mag springs, I've yet to replace the original mag spring! Does that tell you something? 8)
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Re: Spring compression

Post by Bronco »

From what I have read on the computer, so it has to be true ! :roll:


Mag springs, tube springs and such, do not take a set from being stored compressed. What weakens the springs in the repeated compress and decompress. So I take it they weaken as you use them repeatedly . Better springs last longer with use, not being stored one way or another.

I have mags that I have had for 30 years, stored compressed, but not used a whole lot! I have range mags that I use a lot. I take the ones stored to the range once in a great while and they work fine. The ones I use a lot at the range have had their spring replace when an issue arises. I'm just sayin !
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Re: Spring compression

Post by AJMD429 »

.
I have some handguns that seem to always have pretty weak magazine springs, but they either function despite that, and seem to keep functioning or they don't function right from the get-go. I'm not sure how to explain that. My biggest issue has been with magazine followers that tilt. They really have to keep the nose of the cartridge up for most guns.
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Re: Spring compression

Post by .45colt »

I have My Grandfathers Colt 1911 .45 that He carried in Europe in WW1 . It still shoots every round in the magazine. every time.
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Re: Spring compression

Post by Ysabel Kid »

1894cfan wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:37 pm I've got an 1894c that I've had for some 35 years and it's been loaded for most of that time. I was a bit worried about the same thing so ordered up I think TEN mag springs, I've yet to replace the original mag spring! Does that tell you something? 8)
Tells me a lot! :)

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1894cfan
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Re: Spring compression

Post by 1894cfan »

Mag full, chamber empty! 'Course the one I have has a cross bolt safety, it's an 1894cs that originally came with a micro groove barrel that I had swapped out for a ballard when those first came out. Shoot a fair amount of lead with it now. Favorite is Lyman's 158gr cowboy mold made of L#2 and 13.5gr of 2400. 8)
Last edited by 1894cfan on Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spring compression

Post by Ysabel Kid »

1894cfan wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:43 pm Mag full, chamber empty! 'Course the one I have has a cross bolt safety, it's an 1894cs that originally came with a micro groove barrel that I had swapped out for a ballard when those first came out. Shoot a fair amount of lead with it now. Favorite is Lyman's 158gr cowboy mold made of L#2 and 13.5gr of 2400. 8)
Very nice! 8)
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oldAG
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Re: Spring compression

Post by oldAG »

This question has been asked many times in the past. Any time that I have been involved in said discussion I have posed this observation as a response.
I drive a four cylinder vehicle that comfortably cruises at the open highway speed limit while spinning at around 2,000 rpm.
I hope my math is correct, but consider this.
At 2k rpm, each of those cylinders is functioning inlet and outlet valve stroke 50 times per minute.
Now, imagine that I make a journey of some 6 hours duration, which I do at least once per week. Those valve springs are being cycled 50 x 60 x 6 times per journey, each way. In other words, 18,000 times per 6 hour journey, or 36,000 times per return journey. I hope you can all see where I'm going with this.
I do that trip, perhaps, 50 times per year. each one of those valve springs will be cycled 1.8 million times in the course of that year.

And you now want me to believe that firearm manufacturers make a spring that has a life, in terms of the automotive industry, that would be laughable.
Never did hear about a requirement to regularly replace those valve springs in any vehicle engine.
Just sayin'.
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Re: Spring compression

Post by JimT »

AJMD429 wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:49 pm My biggest issue has been with magazine followers that tilt. They really have to keep the nose of the cartridge up for most guns.
I use magazines that have a follower somewhat like the Star magazine on the left. So far those with plastic followers have been working ok for years. I like the solid followers. The flat followers I use for practice magazines mostly. They can tilt at times and cause problems.
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Re: Spring compression

Post by marlinman93 »

Never left my leverguns loaded to see how the springs took it? But I've got several semiauto magazines for handguns that are always loaded, and never had an issue with feeding or function.
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Re: Spring compression

Post by Lastmohecken »

I have found that most everything said so far, has been true, but not always. I will use the 1911, 45acp for this example. I have read and heard all of the theories on long term compression vs hard repeated use, regarding magazine springs, for years. I have shot competition off and on for 40 years, and I have seen magazines hold up for many years of hard use, and also seen them fail in a relative short time frame of only a few months of use. Same goes for mags under constant compression. I have had some that I left loaded for a few years and they worked fine when I finally decided to shoot up the old ammo in them, but I have also had other mags that failed after leaving them loaded for several months. And I am not talking about cheap magazines, but good quality ones, like Colt, Wilson Combat, Chip McCormick, etc.

The truth is what you think you know, may turn out to be wrong, because I have had exceptions to the rules, regarding magazine life, more than once. I am talking about multiple examples.

Most of them are assorted versions of Wilson Combat magazines, but also factory Colt magazines and Chip McCormick also. I generally keep a big batch of hard used practice magazines and then I also keep a mostly separate group of less used, carry mags, which have all been tested enough for me to have confidence in them working, every time. Ok, getting to the recent point, I decided to test fire and clean my main carry gun, which is a Colt Lightweight Commander of recent vintage, maybe 7 or 8 years old since bought new. It's been shot some but not excessively, but it's been well vetted, and I have a lot of confidence in it, to work when needed. Ok, so I shoot the magazine I usually carried in the gun, which had been loaded for several months and it jammed on the last round, and up till then, that gun had never jammed on any ammo, etc. I determined the magazine spring was weak in it. And then I filled it again and the slide failed to lock back on the last round fired, which can be another sign of a weak mag spring. I also tested this same mag in my best and slickest working 5 inch steel 1911 and the slide would not lock back on the last round fired. This magazine was a Colt factory mag.

I also checked out some of my other carry mags. Another factory Colt and also some other 8 round Wilson Combat mags that I had reserved for CCW carry. All of these mags had been loaded with premium ammo for several months to maybe two years or longer, because I used other mags and ammo for practice. Anyway, I found 4 different mags with weak springs that wouldn't lock the slide back, and it wasn't my gun, because I also checked them in my best Wilson Combat 5" gun and confirmed those four mags to have weak springs in them.

But on another note, I checked some other magazines out, that I keep loaded on the headboard of my bed for my 5 inch Colt nightstand gun, and found them all to be just fine, and they had probably been loaded even longer.

There was nothing wrong with the followers on any of these mags and there was nothing wrong with the ammo or the guns I used. In this case the magazine springs had just gotten weak. But other magazines had held up just fine under the same conditions. I think that the quality of the magazine springs in some of these mags were better than others. And frankly, I have seen failures in lots of different semi-autos over the years that proved out to be magazine related, so I always try to run the best magazines.

However, my main point is, long term compression may or may not turn into a problem with a given magazine. Some will pass the long-term test and some will not, but the blanket statement that compression will not damage a magazine spring is wrong. And on the flip side, hard use will not wear out a magazine spring faster in every case, because I have some mags that have been used hard for many years and still work fine. I think the quality of the springs in general have more to do with the longevity of the spring, then anything else. I have seen too many exceptions to the rules, to believe anything else.

Or maybe what I meant to say is, "you just don't know, but you might find out, at the wrong time, when you desperately need that dammed spring to work, like it's supposed to."
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cas
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Re: Spring compression

Post by cas »

A spring is not a spring is not a spring, however... for people who make the blanket statement that springs don't go bad just from being compressed, here's all I have. Different color, but otherwise the same. Same size and strength. One that was partially compressed for two years, but never "used" (compressed and expanded), vs a new one.

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Re: Spring compression

Post by Ysabel Kid »

:shock: :shock: :shock:
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Re: Spring compression

Post by Malamute »

I had a Browning 92 magazine spring go bad, just weak and barely protruded from the tube when the cap was off. I replaced it with a Winchester 94 spring, its been fine since, perhaps 15-18 years since i swapped it.

A 1927 made Winchester 94 that had lived an extremely hard and abusive life as a ranch gun in Az had the magazine spring worn through in 2 places, they overlapped the ends and wrapped sewing thread around them, it still worked, even with obviously worn spots on the spring in other locations.

Ive had a couple Winchester 94s that have been loaded for most of the past 35 or more years with no problems, so far. I recall reading an old piece on the Winchester 1873 where the factory suggested downloading by a couple rounds for spring longevity, topping off if needed. I dont recall where i read it, it may have been the 1875 catalog reprint. Springs may have improved since then.

I think stacking them hard is hard on them, and I think some springs just fail, either poor metal alloy or heat treat or whatever they do to them, perhaps just magic. A gunsmith told me he could tell harder and softer spots in a barrels steel that chamber reamers were cutting, even on high quality barrels. He preferred to deal with Kreiger match grade barrels mostly I believe. Something like that could conceivably affect a spring.

Ive also had some 1911 and AR mags from the 80s that have been fine being loaded since then. I generally load AR mags down by 1 round in 20s and 2 rounds in 30s, it helps them seat easier and helps the bolt close easier from the bolt stop when its dirty or cold. I havent messed with them much in about 15 years.
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