Behold the lowly wadcutter

[Bill in Oregon]

I enjoy getting lost in the exhaustive ballistic tests conducted by Lucky Gunner. This morning I was looking at the performance of various .38 Special rounds from a two-inch barreled revolver, as I just ordered one of the Rock Island Model 206 snubs. Expansion was iffy on many of the self-defense loads, and penetration often just adequate. But I was quite surprised by the very good penetration offered by the basic 146-grain wadcutter at just 715 fps out of a snub -- more than 15 inches. Of course there is virtually no expansion, although many of us put faith in the destructive power of a nice, fat meplat -- and the wadcutter is all meplat. Upshot is that I would not feel poorly defended carrying wadcutters in a .38 snubbie. (Guessing penetration of the famous wadcutter-loaded-backward handload would be miserable.)

https://www.luckygunner.com/38spl-winch ... 50#geltest

And here is an interesting variant by Federal that I had never heard of before. It meets the FBI's minimum for penetration at just past 12 inches, but wow, talk about expansion at just 826 fps!

https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special- ... ds#geltest

[mickbr]

Yes he sure does some good tests. At 38 special velocities the other two great bullets are the speer 135gn GDHP and Remington 125 golden sabre. These will expand fully under 875fps impact, the Golden sabre slightly lower velocity than the GDHP too( about 850fps). The Remington 125 SJHP is a good one at 38+ velocities, will expand at about 925fps impact. I wish he would also cover 44 special.

[JimT]

Years ago I spent about 4 days with Tom Ferguson of the San Antonio PD ... he also was a gunwriter and had been in numerous gunfights. If I remember the story correctly they had a guy in a hotel room who was shooting at people out of the window of his room. Tom loaded his service revolver with the hollow-base wadcutters turned backwards over a fairly heavy charge. He said he kicked in the hotel room door and shot the guy in the stomach as he turned. And it was all over.

Later the medical examiner asked him what kind of gun he used and he said it was just his service revolver with .38 Special loads .. to which the ME replied "BS!" I guess internal damage was quite extensive.

I played with them years ago in a small Charter Arms 5-shot. I loaded them over 2400 and in damp clay they penetrated fairly deep - though any more I don't remember how deep - and expanded to larger than a quarter.

I would not trust them if the object I was shooting at had a heavy coat on.

[jeepnik]

If I recall, the 38 sol Nyclad had a pretty good reputation for effectiveness out of a 2” barreled revolver. It was basically a .38 wadcutter with a nylon jacket.

As to Mr Ferguson’s HBWC loaded backwards, it was fairly popular. I still load my .38’s with these. Largest critter I’ve used them on has been a coyote. Smaller but tougher than most humans but the results were impressive.

[Scott Tschirhart]

The old FBI/Chicago/Dallas load works pretty well out of a .38 2 inch gun. Kicks a bit but you won't notice it if you are shooting for blood.

So I don't know why a soft wadcutter wouldn't work just fine as well.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Years ago I spent about 4 days with Tom Ferguson of the San Antonio PD ... he also was a gunwriter and had been in numerous gunfights.

Did Tom tell you the story about the shootout that caused SAPD to abandon the .41 Magnum?

[JimT]

Years ago I spent about 4 days with Tom Ferguson of the San Antonio PD ... he also was a gunwriter and had been in numerous gunfights.

Did Tom tell you the story about the shootout that caused SAPD to abandon the .41 Magnum?

I remember he said something about it but that was back in 1989 and I have forgotten the details.

[longhair1957]

In the 80’s I used to also load the 148 Speer HBWC backwards
Small game were dead on spot. They lost accuracy by 50 yards.

I used to shoot a lot of the desert gophers, and with my old S&w model 19 4”, I could hit regularly out to about 40 yards.

I never had to shoot anyone with it but I believe with the expansion it would’ve been good.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Years ago I spent about 4 days with Tom Ferguson of the San Antonio PD ... he also was a gunwriter and had been in numerous gunfights.

Did Tom tell you the story about the shootout that caused SAPD to abandon the .41 Magnum?

I remember he said something about it but that was back in 1989 and I have forgotten the details.

Good story and I think he was there. Next time we sit around a fire, we will talk about it.

Back to the subject at hand. The .36 Navy had a pretty good reputation as a manstopper. That soft lead ball was pretty light, and it wasn't pushed that hard and nobody complained about what it did to folks.

[AJMD429]

Back to the subject at hand. The .36 Navy had a pretty good reputation as a manstopper. That soft lead ball was pretty light, and it wasn't pushed that hard and nobody complained about what it did to folks.

It is amazing how such (by today's standards) 'puny' loads were regarded so highly back then.

One factor might be that a penetrating wound very deep into the torso was likely going to be lethal unless the person were very lucky - no antibiotics, and not much in the way of 'trauma surgery' even. Death could be days away, but I'm guessing staring down that barrel-of-death, even if only a small-caliber, would give one pause for concern.

[piller]

Back when the Colts were a new technology, bathing was infrequent. Any wound was a risk of infection.

[Bill in Oregon]

The likelihood of untreatable infection also made the little Colt .31s worth respecting.

[jeepnik]

Tom Feguson's article on the .41 magnum is on this website. Here's the link.
https://leverguns.com/articles/41keith.htm

[Oldncrusty]

Good stuff.. Thanks for sharing.

[horsesoldier03]

I dont buy many jacketed bullets these days. I finally found a good provider that has NICE Lead SWCHP with a low Brinnell Hardness. The alloy is 2-2-96. It takes a while to get your order because they keep such a backlog, but these are the best I have found.

https://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?mai ... ex&cPath=3

[Scott Tschirhart]

Tom Feguson's article on the .41 magnum is on this website. Here's the link.
https://leverguns.com/articles/41keith.htm

That's part of the story. The stamping of SAPD on those guns was uniformly horrible. They are still out there and I run across one every once in a while. But I never seemed to have the cash on hand at the right time to snatch one up.

That load penetrated very well, particularly in row housing with poor building materials. One night there was a shooting on one side of such a structure and the officers on the other side returned fire through the building. Nobody was badly hurt but those bullets whizzed through both sides of the building without slowing down.

The story was that it was a difficult gun for smaller men and women to use well. I don't think that's true. But I do think that the idea of bullets passing through buildings and killing some innocent on the other side was something to be avoided and that was the death knell for the Model 58 and the .41 Magnum cartridge in San Antonio.

I carried the Remington 240 gr SWC police load in a .44 magnum for a while. It leaded like crazy, but there was no problem with lethality.

[Rusty]

Our dept armouror showed me how to load 148 gr HBWCs back in the late 70's. They shot great up to 1,000 FPS where they had a tendency to start leading. I need to get another mold for that now.

[DaveInPA]

My bedside S&W Model 10-5 is loaded with midrange wadcutters. I wanted a load that would provide decent terminal ballistics but without excessive blast and flash.

Back in 2011 Ed Harris wrote a piece, "Revisiting the Full Charge Wadcutter" that's worth perusing if you haven't read it.

https://www.grantcunningham.com/2011/11 ... wadcutter/

He likes DEWCs. I came up with a similar load but with button nose, bevel base 148 grain wadcutters from Matt's Bullets loaded over 3.5 grains of Bullseye in Winchester wadcutter brass. By default Matt sizes these to .359 rather than the more common .358, and they shoot very accurately with no leading in my S&W Model 15-3.

I figure any load that will poke a nearly 3/8" diameter hole through meat is going to be pretty effective.

[marlinman93]

I used a lot of wadcutters in .38 and .45 back when I shot bullseye matches, and played with different loads between matches. I also did some loads with wadcutters revere loaded and expansion was crazy! I'd have carried them also, but most experts say to never carry handloads in your defense gun or it can be used against you in a civil suit.

[Ysabel Kid]

The likelihood of untreatable infection also made the little Colt .31s worth respecting.

One of the reasons why the Colt Pocket Model of 1848, in .31 caliber, was the highest selling model of all of Colt's percussion revolvers. Small, handy, easy to carry and hide. We laugh at the ballistics today, much the same as almost any .32-caliber handgun round (with the possible exceptions of the .32 H&R Magum and .327 Federal Magnum), but NO ONE wanted to be shot by ANYTHING back then. If you were lucky, maybe all that happened was you lost a limb before gangrene set in. Hard to lob off an infected limb when it is your torso.

Which always makes me wonder how Emmett Dalton SURVIVED 23 gunshot wounds during the infamous Coffeyville KS raid!!!

[Nath]

The likelihood of untreatable infection also made the little Colt .31s worth respecting.

One of the reasons why the Colt Pocket Model of 1848, in .31 caliber, was the highest selling model of all of Colt's percussion revolvers. Small, handy, easy to carry and hide. We laugh at the ballistics today, much the same as almost any .32-caliber handgun round (with the possible exceptions of the .32 H&R Magum and .327 Federal Magnum), but NO ONE wanted to be shot by ANYTHING back then. If you were lucky, maybe all that happened was you lost a limb before gangrene set in. Hard to lob off an infected limb when it is your torso.

Which always makes me wonder how Emmett Dalton SURVIVED 23 gunshot wounds during the infamous Coffeyville KS raid!!!

And the pale rider!!

[JimT]

Which always makes me wonder how Emmett Dalton SURVIVED 23 gunshot wounds during the infamous Coffeyville KS raid!!!

I had a friend who was born in 1875 and died in 1978 at 103 years of age. When asked about his long life he would say, "When I was born the weak died and the strong lived."

Emmett was obviously one of the "strong" ones. When you read his story though you find out that 15 years after being shot at Coffeyville he was still undergoing treatment for some of his wounds.

I have known of people who were shot in their youth and in their 70's still had problems from the injury.