Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

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JimT
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Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by JimT »

which can be a very dangerous thing at times. I started remembering having issues like that and then running some tests. About the same time I ran across an article concerning damage to cast bullets and what it does. I learned from my own tests and from articles of others who were doing testing that damage to the nose of the bullet does not affect accuracy as much as damage to the base of the bullet. The base of the bullet is the "STEERING" end. The nose of the bullet is the "WORKING" end.
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I would be willing to venture that if you collected all the damaged bullets and shot groups with them you would be surprised. No, they most likely will not be as accurate as the undamaged ones. But the accuracy would not be horrible.

Here's a couple good articles.

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/does-it-matter

https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/th ... truth.386/
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I have been and I don't think they shoot a whole lot different at 25 yards, but I think they would be affected at longer ranges.

My thoughts are that if these bullets are deformed like this, might the part of the bullet inside the case be somewhat deformed or not aligned properly? Or might they be sized down a bit and that may cause some other fitment problems.

The new expander seems to cure all of these problems and the bullets go right in without any effort.

I'll shoot some tomorrow and see.
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Grizz
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Re: Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by Grizz »

my question is, if I fired them into jugs of water, would they deflect, or bore thru in a dead straight line. I've seen both happen and think it's a good test....
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Re: Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Grizz wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:45 am
my question is, if I fired them into jugs of water, would they deflect, or bore thru in a dead straight line. I've seen both happen and think it's a good test....
Probably need to do some testing. I know that they go straight as an arrow through a cow. No telling how many jugs of water it would take to stop this bullet.
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Re: Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by Pisgah »

My experience, FWIW. Damage to the nose MAY affect accuracy, but usually not seriously; damage to the base is ALWAYS ruinous to accuracy.

But I do like my loads to look purty...
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Re: Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by Catshooter »

I've fired two 100 yard 10 shot groups with the same bullet, same lube, same gas check, same powder charge and same rifle. Same day. The only difference was one set was "perfect" ones, the other wrinkled and damaged. You can't tell the two groups apart.
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Re: Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by Tycer »

91DD5CBE-2915-470D-8BD2-F01D77AE2C3A.jpeg
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Tycer,

That chart is really interesting. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by Bronco »

Well anyway, who wants to be seen with snarked bullet noses in their cylinder ?

Seriously, reloading is a perfection exercise for me. Not attainable , for me, but I set my goals high with results higher than if I set them low
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JimT
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Re: Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by JimT »

Bronco wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:56 pm
Seriously, reloading is a perfection exercise for me. Not attainable , for me, but I set my goals high with results higher than if I set them low
I don't mean anyone to set low goals. If the messed up nose bullets shoot decently, rather than tear them down, set them aside until you have enough to do some practice with. Use them for practicing your draw and shot .. practicing shooting multiple targets and reloading .. practicing point shooting or a myriad of other things. They will work most excellently for that.
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marlinman93
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Re: Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by marlinman93 »

I did some testing of my own bullets many years ago by intentionally damaging both the nose and base on different groups of bullets. I found that damage on the bases affected accuracy at even closer distances of 50 yds. or 100 yds., but similar damage on the nose had no measurable affect I could find.
Now as the distance begins to stretch out further and further, the damage to the bullet's nose begins to have enough affect on the bullet's flight to show up. So bullets I cast for shooting long range I'm far more particular about than those used under 200 yds., or pistol bullets.
But when it comes to damage or imperfections at the base I'm picky about all my bullets.
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

marlinman93 wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:59 am
I did some testing of my own bullets many years ago by intentionally damaging both the nose and base on different groups of bullets. I found that damage on the bases affected accuracy at even closer distances of 50 yds. or 100 yds., but similar damage on the nose had no measurable affect I could find.
Now as the distance begins to stretch out further and further, the damage to the bullet's nose begins to have enough affect on the bullet's flight to show up. So bullets I cast for shooting long range I'm far more particular about than those used under 200 yds., or pistol bullets.
But when it comes to damage or imperfections at the base I'm picky about all my bullets.
If I see a bad base, I cull the bullet out becasue as Elmer wrote, it isn't worth wasting a primer on.

I am shooting the nose-damaged bullets in practice. However, it appears that the expander die is working because I have not had a single damaged nose since I started using it and I've loaded a couple of hundred bullets.
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Grizz
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Re: Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by Grizz »

THIS is a super-interesting topic. I always tried to get close enough that the compounding variables didn't get an opportunity to reveal themselves . . . . now I'm wondering how damaged the cast bullets were that I hunted with . . . my only clue was the starfish on the rock, a baseline of sorts. :D :lol:
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Re: Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by Walt »

In the 4th edition of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook there's an informative article by Mike Venturino regarding accuracy of cast bullet loads in benchrest rifle shooting. He states that the base of the cast bullet is its rudder and that it's relatively unimportant if the nose of the bullet has slight imperfections.
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Carlsen Highway
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Re: Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by Carlsen Highway »

Okay then - how do you get perfect bases?

When I do mine, I have a bit of tin and they come out pretty. I dont start keeping bullets until the mold is hot enough.
I check the the edges of the bases is all sharp. What about on the flat of the base itself, does it have to be perfectly smooth? I tried giving them a quick wipe with a file, just to make it smooth...
When I drop them from a mold, I drop them onto an old wool blanket, not a harder surface.

I dont use hard cast alloys all my bullets are pure lead with 1-2% tin added.

I dont know what else I can do...
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JimT
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Re: Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by JimT »

Carlsen Highway wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:07 pm
Okay then - how do you get perfect bases?
I don't worry about "perfect" bases. I want the outside edges of the bases to look sharp and clean. That's the part that affects what happens as they leave the bore. I like it when the sprue cuts clean but I don't worry about it if they don't.
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Re: Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I look at this the same way Jim does. I want nice square bases.

However, I do shoot a lot of machine cast bevel based bullets in the .45 ACP cartridge and I don't have any accuracy issues with them.
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JimT
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Re: Scott's Nose-Damaged Bullets Got Me To Thinking

Post by JimT »

Scott Tschirhart wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:49 am
I look at this the same way Jim does. I want nice square bases.

However, I do shoot a lot of machine cast bevel based bullets in the .45 ACP cartridge and I don't have any accuracy issues with them.
I have done the same thing in other calibers ... but I limited them to standard handgun velocities of less than 1000 fps ... mostly 800/900 fps. They may work just fine at high velocity and seem to for others. I just never used them for that.
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